The Volcano thread - (Merged)
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The Volcano thread - (Merged)
I have flight to LHR with United leaving from IAD on Sunday evening 6pm - due in to London after 0600. What are the chances I will actually take off?
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Very good, BA have a full schedule planed for Sunday out of LHR, and as you are flying with united there should be no problems with aircraft being in the wrong place. Some of tonights flights from NY going into Scotland as their air space should be open by tomorrow morning.
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Originally Posted by Jarvy
BA have a full schedule planed for Sunday out of LHR...
...and as you are flying with united there should be no problems with aircraft being in the wrong place.
Basically, shogan1977, it's impossible to say with any certainty, especially as the volcano is still erupting. We can only watch and hope.
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Rights of Stranded Passengers
Apologies if this is covered elsewhere, but here goes:
I've been trawling the internet looking for information on whether I have the right to expect the airline to put me up in a hotel while I'm stranded due to a flight cancelled due to the volcanic ash cloud. The only conditions I can find relate to flights departing from EU countries.
Unfortunately I'm currently stuck in a non-EU country (Egypt) waiting for a KLM flight home. The airline has automatically booked me onto a flight in a week's time, and obviously there are heavy financial implications if I have to wait that long.
My travel insurance doesn't appear to cover me because of the reason for the cancellation.
At the moment I can't get hold of KLM by phone in any case, and their Egypt offices are closed until tomorrow. I'm trying to decide whether to sit tight or whether to make a dash for Southern Europe by any means I can, and try to get home by train/bus and ferry from there.
Any sensible advice would be welcome.
I've been trawling the internet looking for information on whether I have the right to expect the airline to put me up in a hotel while I'm stranded due to a flight cancelled due to the volcanic ash cloud. The only conditions I can find relate to flights departing from EU countries.
Unfortunately I'm currently stuck in a non-EU country (Egypt) waiting for a KLM flight home. The airline has automatically booked me onto a flight in a week's time, and obviously there are heavy financial implications if I have to wait that long.
My travel insurance doesn't appear to cover me because of the reason for the cancellation.
At the moment I can't get hold of KLM by phone in any case, and their Egypt offices are closed until tomorrow. I'm trying to decide whether to sit tight or whether to make a dash for Southern Europe by any means I can, and try to get home by train/bus and ferry from there.
Any sensible advice would be welcome.
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I don't know whether you can expect KLM to pay for a hotel or not. I suspect that because it is not anyones fault, that they probably don't. I sympathise with your plight, and think if I was in your position, I would be looking at trying to get into Europe and driving/train back. Still might have delays at the Channel Tunnel, it seems to be booked solid as do the Calais ferries. Might be better trying one of the ferries from Spain/Southern France something like Santander to Portsmouth? Depends where you can get to.
Good luck...
Good luck...
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Just been on BBC News, Simon Calder says if you are on a return journey with an EU Airline, EU Regulations say that the airline has a duty of care, therefore has to provide accommodation. Think it might have been Regulation 261.
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Well Big Harvey this is how I see your predicament.
KLM cannot operate any flights through no fault of their own therefore I think it highly unlikely that they would stand the cost of 7 nights in a hotel.
You therefore have 2 choices:
1. Take the financial hit on the chin and enjoy as best you can your enforced vacation.
2. Make a dash overland by bus, train and ferry. However, although the cost of doing this maybe offset by a refund on your unused return air ticket, it may not be as easy as it sounds as many hundreds of thousands of other passengers across Europe will be in a similar situation and if you set off right now, it is quite possible that it may take you longer than waiting for the next available flight.
I know which option I would choose.
KLM cannot operate any flights through no fault of their own therefore I think it highly unlikely that they would stand the cost of 7 nights in a hotel.
You therefore have 2 choices:
1. Take the financial hit on the chin and enjoy as best you can your enforced vacation.
2. Make a dash overland by bus, train and ferry. However, although the cost of doing this maybe offset by a refund on your unused return air ticket, it may not be as easy as it sounds as many hundreds of thousands of other passengers across Europe will be in a similar situation and if you set off right now, it is quite possible that it may take you longer than waiting for the next available flight.
I know which option I would choose.
My understanding was that the airlines duty of care only starts once you have checked in. Hence airlines reluctance to check people in. However, I would bow to Simon Calders greater knowledge.
To be realistic, the scale of this problem is so great, that I doubt its very practicle for airlines to pick up the tab for so many people. The margins on so many flights are wafer thin to start with. If they were to start shelling out millions of Euros on top of costs of not flying, then they will probably cease to exist.
I think I would hold tight if I could, and await a window of opportunity for a flight. It depends on yr priority of getting back, certainly overland ain't gonna be cheap, comfortable or quick.
To be realistic, the scale of this problem is so great, that I doubt its very practicle for airlines to pick up the tab for so many people. The margins on so many flights are wafer thin to start with. If they were to start shelling out millions of Euros on top of costs of not flying, then they will probably cease to exist.
I think I would hold tight if I could, and await a window of opportunity for a flight. It depends on yr priority of getting back, certainly overland ain't gonna be cheap, comfortable or quick.
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To be honest it doesn't look very good. BA have cancelled all shorthaul until Monday already and the fact that it sounds like the volcano situation is worsening, I wouldn't hold out much hope to be perfectly honest. Even if things got back to normal, there are many crew stuck all over the world who are not able to do their next rostered trips so there may be aircraft and crew shortages even when the ash stops
I hope it does go ahead for you but I wouldn't start making plans or pack your bag just yet
I hope it does go ahead for you but I wouldn't start making plans or pack your bag just yet
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On a slightly different angle, Radio 4 "Money Box" has just been discussing rights in respect of Travel Insurance etc. including lost deposits. I guess it will be available to 'Listen Again' on BBC iPlayer later today.
Interestingly, some insurers are NOT invoking exception clauses ["Act of God"], and claims may also be possible under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act if you have paid by credit card.
We're [probably not] flying to the USA this week, and have pre-paid car rental and a non-refundable cattery. It would appear from MoneyBox that our insurer [AXA through LTSB] is one of the ones that will pay up. The phrase used was "... not normally covered but on this occasion will cover ..."
I'll see what next week brings
Interestingly, some insurers are NOT invoking exception clauses ["Act of God"], and claims may also be possible under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act if you have paid by credit card.
We're [probably not] flying to the USA this week, and have pre-paid car rental and a non-refundable cattery. It would appear from MoneyBox that our insurer [AXA through LTSB] is one of the ones that will pay up. The phrase used was "... not normally covered but on this occasion will cover ..."
I'll see what next week brings
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We're [probably not] flying to the USA this week, and have pre-paid car rental and a non-refundable cattery...
Paxing All Over The World
BBC: The threat posed by volcanic ash will restrict UK flights until at least 0100 BST on Sunday, air traffic controllers say
If that is the time, then you may well be fine some 29 hours later, but just keep watching the web news of BBC as that will updated very quickly with this crucial situation. BBC NEWS | News Front Page
If that is the time, then you may well be fine some 29 hours later, but just keep watching the web news of BBC as that will updated very quickly with this crucial situation. BBC NEWS | News Front Page
Last edited by PAXboy; 17th Apr 2010 at 13:20. Reason: Correct timings
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I was going on the info available at that time. BA are changing by the hour as are all the rest.
I still believe that your flight will go as planned, but this is only my opinion!
I still believe that your flight will go as planned, but this is only my opinion!
Paxing All Over The World
To lighten the mood ...
Here is a 'war story' it's rather fun ... BBC News - Man forced to cycle on to ferry
An extract: One man, a British Airways gold card member, was riding a children's bicycle.
If we're not careful, this thread will in Jet Blast in faster than ...
An extract: One man, a British Airways gold card member, was riding a children's bicycle.
If we're not careful, this thread will in Jet Blast in faster than ...
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Good Morning Folks
For the record I'm trapped in LAX just now, and rescheduled to operate back to the UK on Sunday 17th, landing Monday 18th. I'm going in to the airport daily to help the customer service staff deal with the various passenger issues that are arising - It's not a pretty situation, although people are by and large, dealing with it in a mature and sensible manner.
The real issue when dealing with people (this is where it links in to the thread) is CNN and the Internet. This is now the primary information source for our customers, and the problem is that the information given is not always accurate: Unfortunately, accuracy doesn't matter, the customer perception does. It is becoming difficult to update and brief large numbers of people, when there is always some bright spark who will jump up and tell you that Irish airspace is presently open, or that BA are flying transatlantic into Scotland. Both of those statements may have been true at some stage, but in a fluid situation, they are variables, not constants.
This forum isn't, of course, that group of stranded customers, but Jarvy is the bloke that stands up to tell you that he's just seen on CNN that flight from Russia are now flying to Paris via Helsinki - and it isn't helpful.
The truth is that the OP's question is unanswerable: Anybody that tells you that your flight may or may not operate is simply guessing - Nobody knows!
No offence intended Jarvy - I can appreciate that your comments were made with the best of intentions.
I may be here for some time, so I'll try and feed back anything of interest that occurs. At least I'm in LAX and not Lagos.
For the record I'm trapped in LAX just now, and rescheduled to operate back to the UK on Sunday 17th, landing Monday 18th. I'm going in to the airport daily to help the customer service staff deal with the various passenger issues that are arising - It's not a pretty situation, although people are by and large, dealing with it in a mature and sensible manner.
The real issue when dealing with people (this is where it links in to the thread) is CNN and the Internet. This is now the primary information source for our customers, and the problem is that the information given is not always accurate: Unfortunately, accuracy doesn't matter, the customer perception does. It is becoming difficult to update and brief large numbers of people, when there is always some bright spark who will jump up and tell you that Irish airspace is presently open, or that BA are flying transatlantic into Scotland. Both of those statements may have been true at some stage, but in a fluid situation, they are variables, not constants.
This forum isn't, of course, that group of stranded customers, but Jarvy is the bloke that stands up to tell you that he's just seen on CNN that flight from Russia are now flying to Paris via Helsinki - and it isn't helpful.
The truth is that the OP's question is unanswerable: Anybody that tells you that your flight may or may not operate is simply guessing - Nobody knows!
No offence intended Jarvy - I can appreciate that your comments were made with the best of intentions.
I may be here for some time, so I'll try and feed back anything of interest that occurs. At least I'm in LAX and not Lagos.
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Getting back to business, how can the EU/Member States help?
OK, I tried this idea on the Rumour and News forum but it got deleted. (I shouldn't have mentioned that I'm not crew)
Although not all SLF are politicals, many are top-notch pseudo-industry experts and your opinions would be welcome.
No doubt the airline associations in Brussels are all sharpening their pencils trying to figure out what to ask the EC (and through them the individual Member States) to help the airlines get back to business once the ash clears (if ever, but I am the eternal optimist*) So what should AEA, IACA, ELFAA be looking for as 'temporary measures'? Some ideas:
*Except where BA's return to glory is concerned
Although not all SLF are politicals, many are top-notch pseudo-industry experts and your opinions would be welcome.
No doubt the airline associations in Brussels are all sharpening their pencils trying to figure out what to ask the EC (and through them the individual Member States) to help the airlines get back to business once the ash clears (if ever, but I am the eternal optimist*) So what should AEA, IACA, ELFAA be looking for as 'temporary measures'? Some ideas:
- Waive all curfews at EU airports (allowing continuous operations) for a limited period. (Sorry if you live near one of these but Nimby's rights are suspended)
- Allow flexibility in crew time (perhaps 10% or even more)
- Waive Passenger rights (at least for tickets bought after 14 April)
- Impose obligation on any EU hotel, surface transport, whatever to give 100% refunds if pax can't travel. Just like the airlines.
- ????
*Except where BA's return to glory is concerned
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Originally Posted by ExXB
Waive Passenger rights (at least for tickets bought after 14 April)
Impose obligation on any EU hotel, surface transport, whatever to give 100% refunds if pax can't travel.
Impose obligation on any EU hotel, surface transport, whatever to give 100% refunds if pax can't travel.
Paxing All Over The World
In my personal opinion, the ONLY useful change is to waive curfews for, say, 72 hours. Start at a given point that all can quickly agree on and run it until the Midnight after three full days.
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I was due to fly IoM-LGW Thu 15 when the shutters came down on flights in the northern england airspace. OK, I was then due to fly LHR-HKG the same evening, but a quick review of the situation convinced me my flight would not be going that day. At 1030 I got a text from BA confirming this. Ever the optomist I took a boat from IOM to Liverpool and the train south to Lndon where I now am. After a few "Manage My Booking" changes it became apparent that I was unlikely to fly to HKG before I was due to return. My thanks, incidently, to several posters on this form to links to eg Volanic Ash Advisory pages, and NATS, which helped me keep abreast of the situation.
So now I have cancelled the whole trip, and board the train again tomorrow morning to connect with the ship to take me home.
But I have, while sitting around London, been reviewing my booked flights for the next three months, in the light of a failure of the volcano to cease its eruption, and the speculation that it will continue for a while.
My conclusions are: cancel all longhaul (two trips in addition to the trip I was about to take); book flexible (and refundable) boat/train tickets to back up the trips I and the family are due to make over the next three months (including half term); put my plan to buy a holiday home outside the UK on hold (easy this one, not sure I can really afford it), and lastly book all this years summer holidays in the UK and not abroad.
I hope my approach is not replicated by the average Brit - I live on an island, so we don't have a lot in common,; hey but maybe we do?
But if we do, then the airlines are in for a hard time.
So now I have cancelled the whole trip, and board the train again tomorrow morning to connect with the ship to take me home.
But I have, while sitting around London, been reviewing my booked flights for the next three months, in the light of a failure of the volcano to cease its eruption, and the speculation that it will continue for a while.
My conclusions are: cancel all longhaul (two trips in addition to the trip I was about to take); book flexible (and refundable) boat/train tickets to back up the trips I and the family are due to make over the next three months (including half term); put my plan to buy a holiday home outside the UK on hold (easy this one, not sure I can really afford it), and lastly book all this years summer holidays in the UK and not abroad.
I hope my approach is not replicated by the average Brit - I live on an island, so we don't have a lot in common,; hey but maybe we do?
But if we do, then the airlines are in for a hard time.