The Volcano thread - (Merged)
Join Date: May 2009
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Dear Mr. SSK
Regulation 261 does indeed provide for cash compensation for 'bumped' passengers, meaning those involuntarily denied boarding because the flight has been oversold. Passengers who voluntarily give up their seats are not entitled to this payment.
Regards
Regulation 261 does indeed provide for cash compensation for 'bumped' passengers, meaning those involuntarily denied boarding because the flight has been oversold. Passengers who voluntarily give up their seats are not entitled to this payment.
Regards
Join Date: Apr 2007
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A quick comment in EU261/2004.
Does the paragragh copied from the document allow the airlines to avoid paying any cost or compensation? As M. O'leary was claiming.............
(14)
RJ.
Does the paragragh copied from the document allow the airlines to avoid paying any cost or compensation? As M. O'leary was claiming.............
(14)
As under the Montreal Convention, obligations on operating
air carriers should be limited or excluded in cases
where an event has been caused by extraordinary
circumstances which could not have been avoided even
if all reasonable measures had been taken. Such circumstances
may, in particular, occur in cases of political
instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with
the operation of the flight concerned, security risks,
unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that
affect the operation of an operating air carrier.
where an event has been caused by extraordinary
circumstances which could not have been avoided even
if all reasonable measures had been taken. Such circumstances
may, in particular, occur in cases of political
instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with
the operation of the flight concerned, security risks,
unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that
affect the operation of an operating air carrier.
(15)
Extraordinary circumstances should be deemed to exist
where the impact of an air traffic management decision
in relation to a particular aircraft on a particular day
gives rise to a long delay, an overnight delay, or the
cancellation of one or more flights by that aircraft, even
though all reasonable measures had been taken by the
air carrier concerned to avoid the delays or cancellations.
where the impact of an air traffic management decision
in relation to a particular aircraft on a particular day
gives rise to a long delay, an overnight delay, or the
cancellation of one or more flights by that aircraft, even
though all reasonable measures had been taken by the
air carrier concerned to avoid the delays or cancellations.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Getting a bit crazy now.
Due to fly to Glasgow on Tuesday, Dusseldorf the following week.
Am completely unable to plan anything at the minute, it amazes me how dependent on air travel I, and others, have become!
A mere 14 years ago I was bamboozled by Telex messaging - you know those crappy printed out things that almost needed an "Enigma" expert to translate.
Due to fly to Glasgow on Tuesday, Dusseldorf the following week.
Am completely unable to plan anything at the minute, it amazes me how dependent on air travel I, and others, have become!
A mere 14 years ago I was bamboozled by Telex messaging - you know those crappy printed out things that almost needed an "Enigma" expert to translate.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Hi i dont post very often but this just happened to me.
Just got back from BHX. Turned up at 4.30 for the Flybe flight to CDG at 17.40 only to be told it was cancelled due to the ash cloud. However the 17.25 Air France flight was due to leave as scheduled, we were asked if we wanted to rebook onto it.
Had checked the website 45mins before and it said nearly all Flybe flights were operating normally, no mention of the birmigham, Paris route. Just checked again and again no mention of problems on this route. I know the situation is fluid but this just didnt seem right, any else know anything about this?
Just got back from BHX. Turned up at 4.30 for the Flybe flight to CDG at 17.40 only to be told it was cancelled due to the ash cloud. However the 17.25 Air France flight was due to leave as scheduled, we were asked if we wanted to rebook onto it.
Had checked the website 45mins before and it said nearly all Flybe flights were operating normally, no mention of the birmigham, Paris route. Just checked again and again no mention of problems on this route. I know the situation is fluid but this just didnt seem right, any else know anything about this?
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Montreal Convention
RJ100
A quick comment in EU261/2004.
Does the paragragh copied from the document allow the airlines to avoid paying any cost or compensation? As M. O'leary was claiming.............
Quote:
(14)
Does the paragragh copied from the document allow the airlines to avoid paying any cost or compensation? As M. O'leary was claiming.............
Quote:
(14)
As under the Montreal Convention, obligations on operating
air carriers should be limited or excluded in cases
where an event has been caused by extraordinary
where an event has been caused by extraordinary
circumstances which could not have been avoided even
if all reasonable measures had been taken. Such circumstances
may, in particular, occur in cases of political
instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with
the operation of the flight concerned, security risks,
unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that
affect the operation of an operating air carrier.
if all reasonable measures had been taken. Such circumstances
may, in particular, occur in cases of political
instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with
the operation of the flight concerned, security risks,
unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that
affect the operation of an operating air carrier.
This is a good question, but I believe that the answer is no. My understanding is that the wording you've quoted prevents passengers from claiming compensation under the Montreal convention, but the EU reg. provides a completely new, separate right to compensation. Effectively, the Convention sets out the maximum restrictions that airlines can place on their liability. They are free to include more generous terms within their contract with passengers (Art. 25). The EU reg. simpy applies an additional set of restrictions which apply to flights which fall within its scope (flights starting and/or ending in the EU).
In any event, if there were a conflict between the two provisions, the EU reg. would prevail, since it was introduced in 2004, whilst the Convention was introduced into UK law by Statutory Instrument in 2002. Anything in the Statutory Instrument which conflicted with the Regulation would be impliedly repealed by the later legislation.
Pohutu
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They told us the aircraft was there. I also checked the aeroport de paris website and that was the only flight to cdg cancelled yesterday all afternoon and evening from Birmingham and Heathrow.
So did all those other flights risk flying through potentially dangerous levels of volcanic ash or are FLYBE using the ash cloud as an excuse for some other reason that the flight was cancelled?
Of course flights get cancelled for many reasons but i dont like being treated like an idiot and lied to IF that is what has happened.
So did all those other flights risk flying through potentially dangerous levels of volcanic ash or are FLYBE using the ash cloud as an excuse for some other reason that the flight was cancelled?
Of course flights get cancelled for many reasons but i dont like being treated like an idiot and lied to IF that is what has happened.
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Does the paragragh copied from the document allow the airlines to avoid paying any cost or compensation? As M. O'leary was claiming
Regretfully the text of 261/2004 is clear in respect that airlines must provide assistance in the way of food, lodging, communications in every case regardless of the reason without regard to such exceptional circumstances as we saw with the ash.
National governments are now taking the easy way out, making airlines - including non-EU airlines, responsible for taking care of their citizens. There has been some mumbling about state aid for the airlines, but I'll be long retired before we see any EU government come up with the cash - that is unless an EU carrier is about to cease operations.
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Ryanair have now been fined by the Italian government for their filure to help passengers.
BBC News - Italy fines Ryanair over volcano ash 'failings'
Good to see airlines being held to account for their failure to meet their legal obligation. Also interesting that Ryanair haven't commented on or challenged the ruling.
BBC News - Italy fines Ryanair over volcano ash 'failings'
Good to see airlines being held to account for their failure to meet their legal obligation. Also interesting that Ryanair haven't commented on or challenged the ruling.
Join Date: Mar 2010
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My sympathy for Mr O'Leary knows no bounds - as I have none.
His initial dismissive attitude to his 'duty of care' was outrageous.
It will never affect me personally, as I would never EVER fly with his airline under any circumstances whatsoever. And I do genuinely mean that.
His initial dismissive attitude to his 'duty of care' was outrageous.
It will never affect me personally, as I would never EVER fly with his airline under any circumstances whatsoever. And I do genuinely mean that.
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MPN11
I'm with you on that one although never is a largish word to use. But things would have to be very very desperate for me to put one single penny in their coffers.
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I take your point, but [a] I'm not in the business of doing 'desperate', and [b] he doesn't fly where I need to go 
I'll stick to my never! Ever!!
I'll stick to my never! Ever!!
