ExXB

Actually not. Waiving passenger rights for those that have recently bought tickets - that idea came from an article quoting an insurance company, saying you can't insure against something you know is going to happen. Tell me, what stops me from booking a ticket (if I could) for a BA flight tomorrow. Show up at the airport, be cancelled and insist I be accommodated and wined and dined till the skies cleared? If I timed it right I could even cancel and get all my money back.

Why shouldn't hotels and surface operators be told to make full refunds? That's what the airlines have been told?

Appreciate your comments, anyway

ToweringCu

Don't think you will be going anywhere by air Shogan. Winds are forecast to be northerly tomorrow and the ash cloud is expected to cover the whole of the UK. (It's going to be worse).

kgbbristol

Quote:

At least I'm in LAX and not Lagos.

Ha ha, I'm not in Lagos either - but I AM stranded in Abuja, with 8 of colleagues. We were all due to fly home this weekend on BA and KLM.

Our aircraft are sitting on the tarmac at ABV.

What's to stop the airlines flying these planes to Spain or Portugal or Italy - or somewhere else in mainland Europe, or even in north Africa - from where we could continue our journey by surface transport?

It's not a flippant question - the airlines have a legal duty (though a very taxing and questionable ethical duty) to repatriate us. Wouldn't this be a good way of clearing the backlog so that normal operations can continue as soon as possible when a full service resumes?

wiggy

One reason might be slots and traffic rights - you can't just pitch up from ABV at Madrid or Lisbon with a Speedbird or KLM callsign and dump a 777/747 load of passengers in their laps...though I'd admit current circumstances are so exceptional it would be nice to think politics and trade restrictions could be ignored for a while.

Rusland 17

Just heard from a friend who is on holiday in the States with his family. They were supposed to be flying back from Chicago to Birmingham (BHX) today with KLM, via Amsterdam, but they've been told that there is no chance whatsoever of getting a flight before next weekend...

PAXboy

I agree that it is not a flippant question.

If they made all the arrangements to get you in to, say, the Iberian peninsula, then they have to make arrangements to get you out - or dump you where they have no infrastructure and then plan to get the empty a/c back to the UK whenever that might be possible. Can you imagine the amount of manpower and money needed to schedule all those changes for every flight - as opposed to waiting for the cloud to move and then slowly getting an existing schedule back on track? Given that the time of when that will be changes every six hours?

What if they tipped you out in the Schengen region and said 'make your own way to the UK' and some of the pax did not have Schengen Visas?

BBC News - More flight chaos after Iceland volcano eruption
This is timed BST 23:17 Saturday 17th April
Travel delays continue after flight restrictions are extended until 1300 BST on Sunday due to volcanic ash danger.

wiggy

Greetings.

I believe exactly this problem has happened at, I think Amsterdam, with pax from India who were meant to be connecting to UK bound Flights getting trapped airside at Schipol........I guess they are still there.

bhxfan

Hi SLF with quick question here. Hope this is a suitable place for it.

The current Stansted METAR (2350Z) says VA which I understand indicates Volcanic Ash. I've checked a few other METARs online and I don't see this for any other airports in the UK. Is there anything interesting to be read from this? Perhaps a higher amount of ash settling at Stansted compared to other places? Or is it just a random/cautionary/optional thing?

SassyPilotsWife

The world congregates to raise assistance in the form of money, supplies etc. to help those affected by mother nature all the time. Are there any organizations or groups helping any of these stranded pax all over EU ? I know supplies can't arrive by air, but there is ground. But money can be raised to at least feed them and get medical supplies such as medicines to these pax. I would imagine the hospitals are experiencing more traffic. As a person who flies standby and has been " bumped" only overnight at ORD, I can't fathom being in an airport for this long especially for those stuck in small airports with very limited resources.

Rusland 17

You're equating the inconvenience of being stuck in an airport waiting for a delayed flight with that of losing your home, posessions and loved ones in an earthquake or tsunami?

SassyPilotsWife

Not at all. i never equated it, I merely asked a question if there were any organizations assisting these pax. On that same note, I wouldn't simplify this situation as a mere " delayed flight" Neither would those stuck. Yes we can argue that all pax should travel with the unexpected in mind but alot don't for the simple reason of extra baggage charges. However, not everyone has the financial means to not only travel with extra cash but the extra credit for a hotel room, meals and/or possibly a hospital or dr visit to get medicines that they didn't bring extra of i.e. insulin, dilantin, cardiac meds, BP meds. The pax include crew members from all over the world who are going thru all of this and will be expected to fly as soon as this ban is lifted. I for one would want to make sure they are more rested and taken care of than the pax themselves. Trust me, this was in no way an attempt at comparing this with a disaster, but its not over yet either is it.

Final 3 Greens

Sassy Pilotswife

Ignore Rusland's negative comments, please.

You make a good point.

I have just helped a young Canadian guy who is stranded, with the wrong type of money.

In this case, my assistance was only to lend him my cellphone to make a call to friends and send a text to others to ask them to collect him.

He is fortunate that he has friends in the North of Cyprus, who can collect him from Larnaca, but nonethless as an inexperienced traveller he was phased and the locals had not assisted hime, unfortunately.

The relief on his face, as he reaslied that he would have assistance soon, was clear to see.

Thise stranded airside are vulnerable and do need assistance.

Rusland 17

The "organisations" helping these passengers are (or are supposed to be) the airlines themselves. Their legal obligations have not changed simply because the circumstances are extraordinary and unprecedented, although reports do suggest that many airlines are currently ignoring their obligations to their customers. (Though I'm aware that the sheer numbers of people involved make it a logistical impossibility to assist everyone).

I'm sure we'd all offer help to someone who was stranded or in need of any kind of assistance, F3G. The question posed by the sassy pilot's wife was whether there are any organisations raising money for food and medical supplies, which is an entirely different level of assistance altogether.

lowcostdolly

F3G and Rusland please play nicely together guys

sassypilotswife you do raise some valid points here.

Uk airlines (I don't know about the rest) have a duty of care to their pax and crew. They have to provide accomodation/food allowances for delays downroute....for however long they are!!

We all know that some are better than others at this but by now they should all be grasping the nettle on this.

In normal circumstances most airlines will do this outbound as well for unexpected delays. However the airlines are now bending over backwards to keep UK departing pax informed. If you then turn up at the airport despite being told not to I suspect if you can find an airline rep they may not be that sympathetic

With regard to the crew the CAA lay down minimum standards of accomodation for operating crew and they are pretty good.....even the loco's can't skimp on these. We are also paid flight allowances for being stuck down route although again airlines vary on these but we would get by. It's family/childcare commitments that would become an issue for prolonged unplanned periods away from base especially for crews on short haul.

Rest assured that although some companies would like us to fly the minute we touched down in the UK we cannot do this either. The CAA have strict rules on adequate rest, aclimatisation etc.

SassyPilotsWife

Final 3,

Advice taken.

I won't even begin to respond to his latest rubbish. Thanks for helping the guy out. Unfortunately not " all" will respond to help others. They will condemn them for not being " better prepared". How many unaccompanied minors are stuck ? A friend of mine who is also a Paramedic working in UK said there have been pax with medical problems that range from being out of meds to seizures to stroke level hypertension. So easy for those to assume these folks are being taken care of while sitting at home comfortably in front of their PC. My hubby is in the US and scheduled to fly back to UAE Monday night CST. Should be interesting to see how things progress or digress in the next 24 hours.

SassyPilotsWife

Lowcostdolly,

Thanks for the information. I too was told this is the rule for EU airliners but I know they have got to be spread extremely thin by now with the amount of pax who are there. Do they still have the same obligation to their pax if the a/c is on US soil ? US based airlines don't have to provide accomodations or food allowances for pax that are stuck in the US. Being in the medical field, I am just curious to know how these airlines are getting meds to people both prescribed and over the counter. Especially meds that they take that are controlled substance. The airline my hubby flies for would cover accomodation but the rest is paid per diem the following month and has a daily limit. It could put a dent in our wallets quick if buying airport/area food for days, possibly longer. One thing I do know about the airline family is that they will help out their fellow crew. I am sure alot of EU based crews at home have taken in other crew members into their homes. Perhaps I should start a thread for those with PPRune access that are stuck to discuss any help they need.

You brought up a very valid point. What about those with childcare issues both as a parent who needs to get home or a child flying. I did bring up the minors traveling ( I would be nuts by now if one of my children were young and flying UM and stranded) I dont care how many airline or security agents were helping them. I would not be there. My children as well as myself have flown standby for years and know what its like to be bumped, but not stranded for days.

rojakof

According press Brussels airlines aks EU for rules, which passengers will be on the first flights . (suppose this will ever happen ....)

According rules, refusing the booked passengers for the specific flight and taking the passengers who are already waiting for a few days, then you have to compensate the booked passenger for that day......

Will be a big mess whenever there will be a start up.
Any one an idea which is the fairest way to start-up?

PENKO

Booked pax. Always. Why delay today's people to fly last week's? That would just multiply the agony.

CaptSeeAreEmm

Well I would expect passengers already booked on a specific flight to be given the seat.

MathFox

Sassy, what I know about Schiphol Airport is that they started their emergency plans and brought temporary beds; airport staff is available 24 hours a day (I expect that includes the medical staff), restaurants remain open, showers are available...
Recently immigration started issuing "emergency visa", stuck travellers can get access to their luggage and leave the airport if they so desire. There has been a call for accomodation for stuck travellers, Hoofddorp municipality is coordinating to get people accomodated off-airport.