Wikiposts
Search
Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight) If you are regularly a passenger on any airline then why not post your questions here?

Volcanic ash / Saharan dust

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 16th Apr 2010, 18:26
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Volcanic ash / Saharan dust

Why wouldn't Saharan dust plumes affect aviation in the same way as the widely dispersed volcanic ash we are currently experiencing?

Waking up to find your car covered in the reddish Saharan dust is quite a regular occurrence here at 53° N but to the best of my knowledge it has never inconvenienced aviation operations here.
Sober Lark is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2010, 18:59
  #2 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Handmaiden
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: Duit On Mon Dei
Posts: 4,672
Received 46 Likes on 24 Posts
Volcanic ash is very abrasive whereas dust is not nearly as abrasive.
redsnail is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2010, 19:11
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: another hotel room
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Nearly but not quite. Saharan dust is made of sand, blunted by many years of rubbing up against other dust particles. It has a melting temperature of around 1350 C.

Most turbine engine tgt's are around 850 C.

Volcanic ash has a melting temp of around 600 C. it melts all over the cooling ducts of turbines thereby blocking them causing overheating and eventual failure.

The abrasive properties are an issue but not the main one.
flapassym is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2010, 20:03
  #4 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Handmaiden
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: Duit On Mon Dei
Posts: 4,672
Received 46 Likes on 24 Posts
Thanks for that, I'll use it tomorrow explaining to the pax. (If we go flying...)
redsnail is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2010, 20:09
  #5 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Many thanks for your informative reply
Sober Lark is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2010, 20:49
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: brighton
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
worked in the middle east many years ago and rumour was their engines cleaner/ better than european carriers due to the abrasiveness of the sand

maybe someone more clued up could elaborate
wascrew is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2010, 07:14
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you look at the turbine section, then yes they "look" cleaner but then again the sand would have had a detrimental effect on the gas path coatings. Airlines flying over deserts would always have indications of sand ingestion, generally showing up inside the cooled blading itself with silica deposits etc.

From a serviceability and repair perspective, sulphidation is a much more serious problem. It won't stop an engine, but it will scrap out a lot of blading at overhaul.
dubh12000 is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2010, 08:00
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Antipodes
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Regarding the abrasive properties of Sand vs. Volcanic Ash, if you had an electron microscope handy with samples of both available, you would be able to tell the difference in abrasiveness simply by looking at them. Fortunately, such images are also available online.

First, Sand:


Second, Volcanic Ash:


However, as previously mentioned, the abrasion on the airframe and compressor blades in the engines is a secondary consideration to the melting of ash in the combustion chamber and turbine blades in the engines.
PRD Area is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.