Possible UAL Shoe Bomber IAD-DEN
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@baggersup...
Unfortunately the Americans have yet to learn the lessons of Europe in the 60's / 70's / 80's / 90's... We lived with the threat of terrorism from the IRA, Baader Mienhof, PLO and Brigado Rosso et al. If you let these people change your way of life then they have won. Life must continue as close to possible as normal.
@jackonicko
Numbers of diplomats in a country's mission are the subject of bilateral agreement. Although the odd trade attaché may not be all he appears to be it is rather difficult to hide 22 intelligence operatives within the normal diplomatic staff. Any member of the agreed diplomatic staff who enjoys immunity that is caught in activities inconsistent with diplomatic position will be expelled. That of course will trigger a tit-for-tat expulsion on the other side to protest their innocence...... And so on.....
Of course what you get away with on the pretext of the USA's 'War Of Terror' in partership with local LEA's is quite another thing.
Unfortunately the Americans have yet to learn the lessons of Europe in the 60's / 70's / 80's / 90's... We lived with the threat of terrorism from the IRA, Baader Mienhof, PLO and Brigado Rosso et al. If you let these people change your way of life then they have won. Life must continue as close to possible as normal.
@jackonicko
Numbers of diplomats in a country's mission are the subject of bilateral agreement. Although the odd trade attaché may not be all he appears to be it is rather difficult to hide 22 intelligence operatives within the normal diplomatic staff. Any member of the agreed diplomatic staff who enjoys immunity that is caught in activities inconsistent with diplomatic position will be expelled. That of course will trigger a tit-for-tat expulsion on the other side to protest their innocence...... And so on.....
Of course what you get away with on the pretext of the USA's 'War Of Terror' in partership with local LEA's is quite another thing.
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I'm wondering where over the US he was in the bathroom.....surely they werent on the initial descent into DEN. But how far do you continue the flight? Even if the marshals had him cuffed, you have 2 F-16's on your wing all the way to your pt of intended landing......interesting choice.
Unfortunately the Americans have yet to learn the lessons of Europe in the 60's / 70's / 80's / 90's... We lived with the threat of terrorism from the IRA, Baader Mienhof, PLO and Brigado Rosso et al. If you let these people change your way of life then they have won. Life must continue as close to possible as normal.
Don't be a bunch of drama queens. Don't extrapolate anything to some larger context.
He broke the law if the reports are true. That of itself should cause the detention even if the yahoo was from Des Moines let alone elsewhere.
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But until the Citigroup building and another of them on the Docklands has planes from LHR flown into them and another into Parliament or the UK equivalent to the Pentagon, it's hard for others to understand the undue "skittish"-ness.
The UK's main response was to remove public litter bins. If only we'd know how to overreact properly!
Shooting an innocent electrician in the aftermath of the London bombings really doesn't play into the stiff upper lip too cool for you approach you would like to believe.
All those CCTV's, a bit more than removing the rubbish bins but you're entrenched in your version of a cool response.
All those CCTV's, a bit more than removing the rubbish bins but you're entrenched in your version of a cool response.
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Over-reaction?
Paul L posted
"Perhaps the lighting of shoelaces is a subtle plot to identify the air marshals so that his pals a couple of rows back can take them out and THEN go on to hijack the plane... Hence the fighter escort.
Just joking guys..."
I don't understand why both of the 2 air marshalls on the flight were *both* required to sit with the idiot and give up their identity as marshalls - his offence was smoking and being an idiot with his comments. This happens almost everyday.
One (1) of the marshalls could have identified himself, gagged him, tied him up to a seat and kept an eye on him - leaving another marshall unidentified and ready to act if something else were to happen. What if, as Paul L suggests, his pals *were* waiting to see who the marshalls were before making a move. I suggest being over-zealous comprimised the level of security for the remainder of the flight.
I know, it's easy to be the arm chair critic....but I have seen a pax get busted for smoking on a flight into KLAS in 2006, 2 marshalls did not sit with the passenger for the remainder of the flight and no F16 escort.
Maybe I am missing something here?
Rob.
"Perhaps the lighting of shoelaces is a subtle plot to identify the air marshals so that his pals a couple of rows back can take them out and THEN go on to hijack the plane... Hence the fighter escort.
Just joking guys..."
I don't understand why both of the 2 air marshalls on the flight were *both* required to sit with the idiot and give up their identity as marshalls - his offence was smoking and being an idiot with his comments. This happens almost everyday.
One (1) of the marshalls could have identified himself, gagged him, tied him up to a seat and kept an eye on him - leaving another marshall unidentified and ready to act if something else were to happen. What if, as Paul L suggests, his pals *were* waiting to see who the marshalls were before making a move. I suggest being over-zealous comprimised the level of security for the remainder of the flight.
I know, it's easy to be the arm chair critic....but I have seen a pax get busted for smoking on a flight into KLAS in 2006, 2 marshalls did not sit with the passenger for the remainder of the flight and no F16 escort.
Maybe I am missing something here?
Rob.
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I know, it's easy to be the arm chair critic....but I have seen a pax get busted for smoking on a flight into KLAS 4 in 2006, 2 marshalls did not sit with the passenger for the remainder of the flight and no F16 escort.
Maybe I am missing something here?
Maybe I am missing something here?
Were marshalls even aboard? I don't believe there are enough sky marshalls to cover every flight in the US. On the other hand, if I remember correctly, one of the stipulations of reopening KDCA after 9/11 (in addition to the 30-minute potty rule) was that all flights in and out were to have sky marshalls aboard. Whilst other aspects of the marshall programme are understandably classified I believe that aspect was well publicised.
Whether or not that's still the case I don't know and is also I'm sure "classified."
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smokers
"maybe there were 6 sky marshalls" - I hope so for the safety of other people not smoking.
"perhaps the KLAS smoker did not joke about attempting to light his shoelaces" - true, it was a large pale-white woman who could not wait for a smoke 2 hours into a 3 hour flight...and burst in to tears when the flight attendant told her she would be met by the authorities in KLAS. There goes the gambling money :-)
"perhaps the KLAS smoker did not joke about attempting to light his shoelaces" - true, it was a large pale-white woman who could not wait for a smoke 2 hours into a 3 hour flight...and burst in to tears when the flight attendant told her she would be met by the authorities in KLAS. There goes the gambling money :-)
Thread Starter
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Turns out the guy was indeed on official business:
Qatari Diplomat Was to Meet Jailed Terrorist - CBS News
(CBS/ AP) A Qatari diplomat who sparked a bomb scare after sneaking a smoke in an airplane bathroom was traveling for a consular visit to see an imprisoned al Qaeda sleeper agent.
A State Department official and another person close to the matter say Mohammed Al-Madadi was going to meet Ali Al-Marri for an official visit. Consular officials frequently visit foreigners held in the United States to make sure they are being treated well.
An administration official tells CBS News State Department reporter Charles Wolfson that Al-Marri, an al Qaeda member picked up after 9/11, is the only enemy combatant not being held at Guantanamo Bay because he was arrested in the United States. The U.S. government cut a plea agreement with him, which involved jail time, and he is now in prison in Colorado.
A State Department official and another person close to the matter say Mohammed Al-Madadi was going to meet Ali Al-Marri for an official visit. Consular officials frequently visit foreigners held in the United States to make sure they are being treated well.
An administration official tells CBS News State Department reporter Charles Wolfson that Al-Marri, an al Qaeda member picked up after 9/11, is the only enemy combatant not being held at Guantanamo Bay because he was arrested in the United States. The U.S. government cut a plea agreement with him, which involved jail time, and he is now in prison in Colorado.
Trash du Blanc
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NBC is reporting that not only did the man make his offhand remark, he refused to give up his lighter.
I'm usually the first to complain about the idiocy of the TSA. But this response seems about right.
Go ahead, make your criticisms, your hindsight is 20/15.....
I'm usually the first to complain about the idiocy of the TSA. But this response seems about right.
Go ahead, make your criticisms, your hindsight is 20/15.....
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A State Department official and another person close to the matter say Mohammed Al-Madadi was going to meet Ali Al-Marri for an official visit. Consular officials frequently visit foreigners held in the United States to make sure they are being treated well.
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no disrespect intended
I wasn't discounting any of the "explosive" past that the Uk has endured. I've lived in the UK throughout childhood and shuttled between the U.S. and family near Manchester and London. In fact, was in Stockport during the Manchester IRA bombing. Went back there last summer to view the famous "red mail box" and glad it was left there! And hadn't been there since the revitalization of the centre, now filled of course with shopping WAGs..
Also used to take the Soiutheast line to Greenwich (yeah before DLR, sigh), and the Docklands explosion site was visible in the distance.
These things are old history in the UK, but the reason the U.S. is probably reacting this way is it's a newer phenomenon, we are their prime target right now with the UK and it's just too recent to have become relaxed about it yet, as a law enforcement concept or within those on the airplanes who see strange things happening.
So folks are edgy.
Also used to take the Soiutheast line to Greenwich (yeah before DLR, sigh), and the Docklands explosion site was visible in the distance.
These things are old history in the UK, but the reason the U.S. is probably reacting this way is it's a newer phenomenon, we are their prime target right now with the UK and it's just too recent to have become relaxed about it yet, as a law enforcement concept or within those on the airplanes who see strange things happening.
So folks are edgy.
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Pot - Kettle here.
The Americans are sh!t-scared of their own shadows. Anyone of a dusky appearance doing something out of the ordinary is likely to get a very scared police officer screaming at him and waving a gun in his face.
Give me a break, Magplug. Badly-trained trigger-happy thugs masquerading as law-enforcement officers and ****-scared of their own shadows exist in most countries in the world including the USA and Britain.
Try carrying a parcel with a table leg in it down a London Street.
