BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
Joined: Mar 2010
Aviation Qualifications: ATCO
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From: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Damn - beat me to that one!!
It may be watersidewonker's father or grandfather, of course. The spelling is familiar
How these people believe they gain any credibility or support with such dribble is beyond me. There are massive flaws in everything they type.
Please, BA, clean the Augean Stable, however long it takes
It may be watersidewonker's father or grandfather, of course. The spelling is familiar
How these people believe they gain any credibility or support with such dribble is beyond me. There are massive flaws in everything they type.
Please, BA, clean the Augean Stable, however long it takes
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 187
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From: The 3 Valleys
@Snas
Thanks for the info on sickness.
Speaking personally, I can't see why BA has not chosen to shoot this employee out into deep space unless they have multiple other employees on similar terms in which case it would be discriminatory with unlimited fines.
If they do not , then I ( admittedly not a friend of militant unions ) would say
"Stand clear of the Doors "
Thanks for the info on sickness.
Speaking personally, I can't see why BA has not chosen to shoot this employee out into deep space unless they have multiple other employees on similar terms in which case it would be discriminatory with unlimited fines.
If they do not , then I ( admittedly not a friend of militant unions ) would say
"Stand clear of the Doors "
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 97
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From: UK
The difficult part is managing these people out of the business, im sure it would just cause more strikes and kill the company if they tried, so I guess for the airline it must be cheaper just to stomach the militants.......
I would say BA are in a difficult position, for me as an employer I would find it very difficult to have staff working in my company who behaved like this.
I also cant get my head around the mentality that says I hate working here so much I am going to try and kill the company. The real problem is that all of this quite frankly schoolyard behaviour is causing the very people that keep them in jobs to go elsewhere!!!
I would say BA are in a difficult position, for me as an employer I would find it very difficult to have staff working in my company who behaved like this.
I also cant get my head around the mentality that says I hate working here so much I am going to try and kill the company. The real problem is that all of this quite frankly schoolyard behaviour is causing the very people that keep them in jobs to go elsewhere!!!
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: LHR
AlpineSkier - "Managing Out" is part of the HR lexicon of many companies. It doesn't necessarily mean sacking, but pushing someone to make the decision to move on elsewhere.
In other developments, here is the first edition of "Scabbin' Crew News". It is not even remotely funny, just over-flowing with bile.
Cover Page
In other developments, here is the first edition of "Scabbin' Crew News". It is not even remotely funny, just over-flowing with bile.
Cover Page
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 586
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From: Cumbria
Seriously, with what we have seen in the past from BASSA and its militant members... the porn-filled pages, the chav dressed in men's undergarments looking more like a pole dancer than a respected Cabin Crew member, is this site any surprise?
I expect that PCCC and BA have already saved the screen shots.
BASSA can't offer a dignified representation to its members so this is what the public gets.
I expect that PCCC and BA have already saved the screen shots.
BASSA can't offer a dignified representation to its members so this is what the public gets.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 60
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From: Somewhere Warm
AlpineSkier
Actually, successfully "managing an employee out" of a business is definitely not the same as "sacking" an employee. Ideally, it is a process between a manager and employee where the employee comes to realize they are not meeting known performance criteria and they leave voluntarily.
Often, these employees are not happy in their jobs because they already know they are not meeting job expectations. In the few times I have had to "manage out" an employee, they have left voluntarily and have actually gone on to other jobs where they were more satisfied and happy.
I know that what some people call "managing out" is the equivalent to "sacking". However, that's not what it means if done correctly.
TB
Actually, successfully "managing an employee out" of a business is definitely not the same as "sacking" an employee. Ideally, it is a process between a manager and employee where the employee comes to realize they are not meeting known performance criteria and they leave voluntarily.
Often, these employees are not happy in their jobs because they already know they are not meeting job expectations. In the few times I have had to "manage out" an employee, they have left voluntarily and have actually gone on to other jobs where they were more satisfied and happy.
I know that what some people call "managing out" is the equivalent to "sacking". However, that's not what it means if done correctly.
TB
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8
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From: uk
Actually I wonder if BA have ever considered using an independent Occupational Health Service, a lot of organisations refer staff after 6 weeks to 3 months absence - depending on the illness of course. After interview with the employee, the report can benefit both the employee and employer - Referals often result in the employee returning to work quite soon.!!!
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 97
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From: UK
@alpineskier I am not being trying to be over complicated in my use of language, there is a process that any business has to go through to sack anyone, as an employer you cant just rock up for work someday in a bad mood and sack someone.
You have to "manage people out", basically to protect your company as much as possible from the wrath, expense and damage of the employment tribunals.
Companies have to put employees on a plan to help them get back to work, and set targets and goals. It takes a great deal of restraint as a manager to go though this process, and you have to be meticulous in following the rules to avoid the tribunal.
In my opinion it would be extremely difficult to performance manage someone with so much hatred for the company that pays their wages.
I could never work for a company where I didnt feel valued and genuinely enjoy what I was doing, so how people can sleep at night taking a salary while trying to destroy the thing that pays them that salary is simply beyond me.
You have to "manage people out", basically to protect your company as much as possible from the wrath, expense and damage of the employment tribunals.
Companies have to put employees on a plan to help them get back to work, and set targets and goals. It takes a great deal of restraint as a manager to go though this process, and you have to be meticulous in following the rules to avoid the tribunal.
In my opinion it would be extremely difficult to performance manage someone with so much hatred for the company that pays their wages.
I could never work for a company where I didnt feel valued and genuinely enjoy what I was doing, so how people can sleep at night taking a salary while trying to destroy the thing that pays them that salary is simply beyond me.
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Tracey Island
Go to the address bar and at the end of the address you will see ...quote=1...delete the number 1 and press enter.....
Guest
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... why as a manager should I care about an employee not meeting the required standard...
On the other hand, if you run a professional business.....
And therein lies the BA dilemma for me; at the moment, BASSA is making the BA senior management look very good, due to gross stupidity.
The CC T&C's and industrial agreements make them an easy target for management to target for large cost savings.
However, I wonder how much of an inspirational leader WW really is?
Prior to the strike, lest we forget, all I saw was a continuous erosion in product and an apparent fall in service levels on the ground.
The strike is an exciting diversion and as Churchill would have no doubt acknowledged, it is easier to be a strong leader when you have an enemy, who is clearly the villain.
But what happens post strike?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 64
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From: Hampshire
Final 3 Greens
However, I wonder how much of an inspirational leader WW really is?
There is a far fewer number of Senior Managers who are able to build and grow an organisation so that it has a sound and self sustaining future, able to adapt rapidly to market changes and stay ahead.
Very rare birds indeed are the Senior Mangers who are gifted with the ability to do the latter having done the former.
The problem of rebuilding BA to “The World’s Favourite Airline – Once More” requires nothing short of Inspirational Leadership; in my book, that’s getting people do achieve things that they didn’t know they could do. And that Leadership has to be visibly in place throughout the Company: there seem to be lots of Managers in BA at the moment, but there’s a big difference between ‘Managing’ and ‘Leading’.
For Willie Walsh, the problem is compounded by two factors.
1. He hasn’t got long to do it: there are the Competitors breathing down his neck, and there is the fundamental profitability of the Company to address. Others already have commented on the needs for Fleet Renewal, Product Upgrades, etc., and the shareholders, quiescent at the moment, will soon start to ask fundamental questions about the return on their investment.
2. He is running a virtual organisation: whether the customers’ experience of BA anywhere in the world is exactly what he wishes it to be is in the hands of individual, and often quite junior, staff. If one runs a team of people all at the same location, one can see continually what’s going well, what’s not going well, and discuss and adjust accordingly. If one is running a virtual team, where there is no chance to meet around the coffee machine, then one had to be very clear up front as to what’s important to us, and how stuff gets done by us, and one has to take every opportunity to give reinforcing feedback, and to check any errant behaviours
It would be impudent of me to make a judgement on whether WW has the qualities of an Inspirational Leader that will enable him to achieve Phase 2 of the rebuilding of BA. The only other thought is that the Board may have already considered this in their discussions about who becomes the MD of BA when WW becomes the CEO of the New Company.
As a long standing customer, and observer of the Company’s fortunes, I sincerely wish WW and his team all success in putting the organisation back on a sound footing.
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Lemonia. Best Greek in the world
Gem
Yup, well put. Great post. (I sometimes have to agree with F3G)
I've met some folk who can do both.
The best was a guy called Paul, who is now CEO & Chair of a large private Company. Even the family like him! (Private - so it is never in the papers). Inspiring, great at growing people/teams, Global in outlook, has lived and worked outside UK/Europe, fierce on costs, and a model of clarity with respect to under performing managers. Good staff love him. Bad staff leave.
I would use his full name, but the post would be deleted.
PS - on the "managing people out" question, a friend of mine came up with "Creative external redeployment"
Yup, well put. Great post. (I sometimes have to agree with F3G)
I've met some folk who can do both.
The best was a guy called Paul, who is now CEO & Chair of a large private Company. Even the family like him! (Private - so it is never in the papers). Inspiring, great at growing people/teams, Global in outlook, has lived and worked outside UK/Europe, fierce on costs, and a model of clarity with respect to under performing managers. Good staff love him. Bad staff leave.
I would use his full name, but the post would be deleted.
PS - on the "managing people out" question, a friend of mine came up with "Creative external redeployment"
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: UK
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,841
Likes: 328
From: Hertfordshire, UK.
GemDeveloper has certainly nailed it. After a working life of 32 years across a wide range of industries - the inspirational ones are 1 in 100 and that's a maximum. Which type WW is will have been decided by the Board and it is they who will decide whether he has done the job they hired him to do.
One of the very few MDs that admitted his job was 'hatchet man', to turn a company around was Sir Michael Edwardes. He said that, when he had done his job, he had to leave because he was not the right man to then lead a company forward. Many who start a company do not realise this and try to take the company from start up to 'plc'. One who knows that he is not is Sir Stelios Haji-Ioannou.
We'll have to wait and see where WW is on the scale.
One of the very few MDs that admitted his job was 'hatchet man', to turn a company around was Sir Michael Edwardes. He said that, when he had done his job, he had to leave because he was not the right man to then lead a company forward. Many who start a company do not realise this and try to take the company from start up to 'plc'. One who knows that he is not is Sir Stelios Haji-Ioannou.
We'll have to wait and see where WW is on the scale.
Last edited by PAXboy; 27th April 2010 at 18:58. Reason: Correcting typo: I have not been working since the age of 1... no matter what it feels like!