BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 343
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From: England
Hotel Tango.
Please remember that the 48% refers only to LHR. If you include the 100% of flights operating from LCY and LGW the total flights cancelled will only be in the high 20s or low 30s. I suspect many customer who were due to fly to destinations also served by LCY and LGW many have transfered to those departure points.
Regards
Please remember that the 48% refers only to LHR. If you include the 100% of flights operating from LCY and LGW the total flights cancelled will only be in the high 20s or low 30s. I suspect many customer who were due to fly to destinations also served by LCY and LGW many have transfered to those departure points.
Regards
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 586
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From: Cumbria
baggersup:
Thank you for the link.
I was rather astounded that someone actually questioned McLuskey about more cabin crew reporting for duty.
And you're right, it was heartening to see the difference between last week and this re. planes in the air.
Thank you for the link.
I was rather astounded that someone actually questioned McLuskey about more cabin crew reporting for duty.
And you're right, it was heartening to see the difference between last week and this re. planes in the air.
Guest
Posts: n/a
£7M loss, per day, is clearly a blow to British Airways, as it could well use that money for more positive uses.
There is a also horrendous brand damage, particularly abroad.
But I can't see how the union can claim victory if the operation continues.
If the union announces more strikes, I fear for the airline in the short term, as it will polarise the cabin crew even more (making post strike relationships difficult), bleed the company of money that is needed for other things and get more people into the habit of booking with alternative carriers.
On the other hand, I also believe that a compromise would be a disaster, as the airline does need to be allowed to manage it's business (lawfully) in a world very different to the days it emegerged from the union of BEA/BOAC.
From a negotiating perspective, it is now difficult as positions appear to be dominating, as opposed to interests.
When interests are the driver, it is often possible to manouevre into a position that resolves the matter.
On the other hand, positions are like trenches.
So we will see what happens.
There is a also horrendous brand damage, particularly abroad.
But I can't see how the union can claim victory if the operation continues.
If the union announces more strikes, I fear for the airline in the short term, as it will polarise the cabin crew even more (making post strike relationships difficult), bleed the company of money that is needed for other things and get more people into the habit of booking with alternative carriers.
On the other hand, I also believe that a compromise would be a disaster, as the airline does need to be allowed to manage it's business (lawfully) in a world very different to the days it emegerged from the union of BEA/BOAC.
From a negotiating perspective, it is now difficult as positions appear to be dominating, as opposed to interests.
When interests are the driver, it is often possible to manouevre into a position that resolves the matter.
On the other hand, positions are like trenches.
So we will see what happens.
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,423
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From: world
I see that the BA managers are very active with their spin on this site. 
Look guys, I don't fly BA and frankly I don't care a hoot about their future one way or the other. For that reason I can see through all the spin that some of you (pro BA management) produce. Even if it's LHR only, 48% is still a sizeable disruption for an airline of BA's size. Period.
Look guys, I don't fly BA and frankly I don't care a hoot about their future one way or the other. For that reason I can see through all the spin that some of you (pro BA management) produce. Even if it's LHR only, 48% is still a sizeable disruption for an airline of BA's size. Period.
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: The Deep South (Sussex)
On the "other" page BASSA are reported to be telling members not to publish what was in their pay packet last month.
What are they trying to cover up? How much they really earn compared with the £11,000 mentioned in the interview or how much their members are losing by striking?
What are they trying to cover up? How much they really earn compared with the £11,000 mentioned in the interview or how much their members are losing by striking?
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 3,585
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From: UK
Do Not, I repeat, Do Not - be tempted to go down the path of accusing other users of being Managers/Reps on either side.
This is an anonymous forum - the truth is that you have absolutely no idea of who people are, and can prove nothing. Accusations such as these waste our time and your bandwidth and serve no purpose except to raise the temperature needlessly.
Further such posts will result in sanctions being taken against the user making the accusation.
This is an anonymous forum - the truth is that you have absolutely no idea of who people are, and can prove nothing. Accusations such as these waste our time and your bandwidth and serve no purpose except to raise the temperature needlessly.
Further such posts will result in sanctions being taken against the user making the accusation.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 38
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From: West Sussex
I don't think its a fair measure to consider the number of aircraft flights departing or cancelled. The important indicator is the number of booked passengers flown. With consolidation of flights on larger aircraft, it may well seem like there are less actual operations. Best wait until BA issues its customers flown analysis which has to be a fair reflection for fear of misleading markets.
This brings me on to an issue so many seem to have overlooked. The Union gloats about the number of services disrupted not caring that this equates to the plans and dreams of ordinary people destroyed. From the customers point of view, BA as a company appears to be doing all it can to maintain services or rebook customers on other airlines. On the other hand, the other party is trying to prevent them. Is it any wonder the Union lacks support from the public?
This brings me on to an issue so many seem to have overlooked. The Union gloats about the number of services disrupted not caring that this equates to the plans and dreams of ordinary people destroyed. From the customers point of view, BA as a company appears to be doing all it can to maintain services or rebook customers on other airlines. On the other hand, the other party is trying to prevent them. Is it any wonder the Union lacks support from the public?
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 343
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From: England
Hotel Tango,
I am definitely not a BA manager and I am not employed by BA (As Tightslot will confirm as he banned me from the CC site
) However I am in the airline business and I do hope to be employed by BA once this dispute is over and the airline can look to the future not worry about the past.
If you are as neutral as you make out then you have to take into account all BA bases as UNITE would have originally wanted to ground all BA aircraft.
Regards
I am definitely not a BA manager and I am not employed by BA (As Tightslot will confirm as he banned me from the CC site
) However I am in the airline business and I do hope to be employed by BA once this dispute is over and the airline can look to the future not worry about the past.If you are as neutral as you make out then you have to take into account all BA bases as UNITE would have originally wanted to ground all BA aircraft.
Regards
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 458
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From: UK
When it comes to arguing about percentages of flights flown the jury may still be out.
However when it comes to press releases, which the press happily copy and paste more or less verbatim, BASSA/Unite are the clear winners. They come out thick and fast containing lots of words such as “estimate” or “believe”.
Bassa – Link
(Some proof reading wouldn’t go amiss though – “In contrast, in a normal working day a BA cabin crew member with five year's experience would earn only £15,000 or £16 per hour.” [my bold] I know what they are trying to say but that doesn’t read very well.
Telegraph (& others) - Link
However when it comes to press releases, which the press happily copy and paste more or less verbatim, BASSA/Unite are the clear winners. They come out thick and fast containing lots of words such as “estimate” or “believe”.
Bassa – Link
(Some proof reading wouldn’t go amiss though – “In contrast, in a normal working day a BA cabin crew member with five year's experience would earn only £15,000 or £16 per hour.” [my bold] I know what they are trying to say but that doesn’t read very well.
Telegraph (& others) - Link
Last edited by Snas; 29th March 2010 at 11:13.
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: uk
Departures for ALL London Airports Monday 29 March
All departures from LGW and LCY are planned to operate today.
Including these flights in the statistics gives the following picture for those that want it.
Monday 29 March BA DEPARTURES from HEATHROW, GATWICK, & LONDON CITY
(Excludes codeshares; Includes leased aircraft)
analysis based on BA.Com flight departures
Longhaul
61 73% Planned to operate
23 27% Cancelled
Shorthaul
177 61% Planned to operate
111 39% Cancelled
Total
238 64% Planned to operate
134 36% Cancelled
Including these flights in the statistics gives the following picture for those that want it.
Monday 29 March BA DEPARTURES from HEATHROW, GATWICK, & LONDON CITY
(Excludes codeshares; Includes leased aircraft)
analysis based on BA.Com flight departures
Longhaul
61 73% Planned to operate
23 27% Cancelled
Shorthaul
177 61% Planned to operate
111 39% Cancelled
Total
238 64% Planned to operate
134 36% Cancelled
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 183
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From: UK
Originally Posted by Unite press release
“In contrast, in a normal working day a BA cabin crew member with five year's experience would earn only £15,000 or £16 per hour.”
This seems to work out at around 18 hours per week. Do BA cabin crew really only work less than a 1,000 hours a year?
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 623
Likes: 1
From: UK
If BA and BASSA werre to negotiate a settlement which produced anything less than the original cost savings demanded, then the costs to BA would be far greater than simply replacing the crewmember on the 747.
All of the unions in BA were given cost cutting targets, and all of them, apart from BASSA, negotiated settlements. However, all of the settlements contained a clause which stated that the aggreement would be void unless all staff groups achieved their cost saving targets.
All of the unions in BA were given cost cutting targets, and all of them, apart from BASSA, negotiated settlements. However, all of the settlements contained a clause which stated that the aggreement would be void unless all staff groups achieved their cost saving targets.
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 586
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From: Cumbria
Actually, when this drama is over (and I don't mean to trivialize what is a very serious situation for many) I would actually pay to listen to a BA Manager discuss how they approached operations during this time.
I have an idea that it would be informative in the extreme.
I have an idea that it would be informative in the extreme.
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 586
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From: Cumbria
Snas:
Regarding your comment:
I am in agreement that Unite/BASSA definitely are getting the majority of the sound bite time...but after some thought, I believe there may be a reason for BA's careful and selective communications.
As I understand the process (and anyone here please feel free to correct me if I am misinformed) in order for BA to call for new contracts there is not only a time restriction but BA must also show a good faith effort was made to negotiate. Obviously, there hasn't been much of that happening lately be either side.
If BA offers to come back to the table it certainly will want to enter the room from a position of strength.
So you hold your cards, issuing factual communications regarding flight status, passengers flown, staffing attendance, loss of Staff Travel, loss of pay, etc., and you concentrate on keeping as many passengers flying as possible, hopefully increasing flights as the strike dates continue.
Striking staff are left to ponder their choices realizing that the personal impact of the strike is much greater than one or two days pay, there are much bigger numbers at play.
BA and the majority of its employees hope the result is more and more cabin crew reporting for service.
...and when you hit the 70-80% of Cabin Crew reporting as scheduled you are ready to talk, to both the Press and the Union.
BA would be in a position to meet the requirement of good faith efforts to settle the dispute, but they will be facing a Union that knows it does not have the backing of a significant majority of its members.
Unite/BASSA must negotiate reasonably because they are facing a deadline knowing that if an agreement, any agreement, isn't reached their entire house of cards comes down.
Not a bad approach.
..though BA could just be disorganized in the PR department.
Regarding your comment:
However when it comes to press releases, which the press happily copy and paste more or less verbatim, BASSA/Unite are the clear winners. They come out thick and fast containing lots of words such as “estimate” or “believe”.
As I understand the process (and anyone here please feel free to correct me if I am misinformed) in order for BA to call for new contracts there is not only a time restriction but BA must also show a good faith effort was made to negotiate. Obviously, there hasn't been much of that happening lately be either side.
If BA offers to come back to the table it certainly will want to enter the room from a position of strength.
So you hold your cards, issuing factual communications regarding flight status, passengers flown, staffing attendance, loss of Staff Travel, loss of pay, etc., and you concentrate on keeping as many passengers flying as possible, hopefully increasing flights as the strike dates continue.
Striking staff are left to ponder their choices realizing that the personal impact of the strike is much greater than one or two days pay, there are much bigger numbers at play.
BA and the majority of its employees hope the result is more and more cabin crew reporting for service.
...and when you hit the 70-80% of Cabin Crew reporting as scheduled you are ready to talk, to both the Press and the Union.
BA would be in a position to meet the requirement of good faith efforts to settle the dispute, but they will be facing a Union that knows it does not have the backing of a significant majority of its members.
Unite/BASSA must negotiate reasonably because they are facing a deadline knowing that if an agreement, any agreement, isn't reached their entire house of cards comes down.
Not a bad approach.
..though BA could just be disorganized in the PR department.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,496
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From: Tracey Island
That video 'chat' between WW and a passenger was so obviously set up by the Channel 4 crew. The chap must have been practising that question, given to him by the reporter, for ages!!!
Both sides need to get back to ACAS and sit down and talk. WW and Unite leadership need to let their negotiating teams negotiate without interference (that's where the problem is) and get everyone back to work.
So much misinformation is being spread that the real picture has long disappeared.
Both sides need to get back to ACAS and sit down and talk. WW and Unite leadership need to let their negotiating teams negotiate without interference (that's where the problem is) and get everyone back to work.
So much misinformation is being spread that the real picture has long disappeared.
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 586
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From: Cumbria
Call100:
Well, if it was a set up it certainly was a positive one.
Could be wrong but I don't see a back to the table moment until after this latest strike...and then a few days for it all to sink in on the remaining cabin crew.
Well, if it was a set up it certainly was a positive one.
Could be wrong but I don't see a back to the table moment until after this latest strike...and then a few days for it all to sink in on the remaining cabin crew.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,761
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From: Lemonia. Best Greek in the world
What about the passengers???
Mr. Len (I was never a "member" of Militant Tendency) McWhatever likes this strike as it gives him free publicity in his campaign to become GenSec of Unite. (In a Union as big as Unite, most of the voters have never heard of the candidates - any publicity is good publicity).
However, has he EVER commented about the impact this strike has on ordinary working people who have saved for years to have thier holidays ruined by an ambitious Trotskyite?
Ordinary working people. - Passengers. Does he care?
However, has he EVER commented about the impact this strike has on ordinary working people who have saved for years to have thier holidays ruined by an ambitious Trotskyite?
Ordinary working people. - Passengers. Does he care?
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 169
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From: Europe
and when you hit the 70-80% of Cabin Crew reporting as scheduled you are ready to talk, to both the Press and the Union.
BA would be in a position to meet the requirement of good faith efforts to settle the dispute, but they will be facing a Union that knows it does not have the backing of a significant majority of its members.
Unite/BASSA must negotiate reasonably because they are facing a deadline knowing that if an agreement, any agreement, isn't reached their entire house of cards comes down.
BA would be in a position to meet the requirement of good faith efforts to settle the dispute, but they will be facing a Union that knows it does not have the backing of a significant majority of its members.
Unite/BASSA must negotiate reasonably because they are facing a deadline knowing that if an agreement, any agreement, isn't reached their entire house of cards comes down.