Safety - When should PAX alert crew
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Many years ago, I was just a boy of about 12 yo, during a long flight from Bombay to Frankfurt, there were a lot of people from India on board who looked very 'traditional', quite apparently most of them had never flown before.
I was passing most of my time running around the plane, probably annoying other pax and cc....
I noticed one of the Indian pax, a middle-aged female, was trying to open one of the emergency doors. Fortunately, she was making no sense of the huge instructions in red...I remember it being quite a big aluminium handle that had to be rotated 90°...was a DC10.
I was very alarmed and found a flight attendant and told her. She apparently either did not believe me or had trouble understanding my poor English (I am German and had only started taking English lessons).
Once she saw the Indian pax at that door, she sure got to move quick!
She had to call in a male colleguage, and the 2 of them had to forcibly wrestle the woman away from the door. The FA later told me it was not dangerous, that the captain had to 'activate' the emergency doors before they could be opened, but I never believed her.
From then on, I have never stopped watching my fellow passengers a bit, just in case someone tries to do something stupid....
I was passing most of my time running around the plane, probably annoying other pax and cc....
I noticed one of the Indian pax, a middle-aged female, was trying to open one of the emergency doors. Fortunately, she was making no sense of the huge instructions in red...I remember it being quite a big aluminium handle that had to be rotated 90°...was a DC10.
I was very alarmed and found a flight attendant and told her. She apparently either did not believe me or had trouble understanding my poor English (I am German and had only started taking English lessons).
Once she saw the Indian pax at that door, she sure got to move quick!
She had to call in a male colleguage, and the 2 of them had to forcibly wrestle the woman away from the door. The FA later told me it was not dangerous, that the captain had to 'activate' the emergency doors before they could be opened, but I never believed her.
From then on, I have never stopped watching my fellow passengers a bit, just in case someone tries to do something stupid....
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Airborne Soon
Not strictly the case for all airlines.
BA for example - Once crew have been asked to take their seat, they must remain seated and strapped into their harness unless they need to attend to a 'safety related matter'. Indeed, but they can use their own discretion, no permission needed.
Evacuation is an obvious one, which they can initiate themselves.
Any other safety related matter such as overhead bins opening, passengers standing, or noticing something unusual regarding the behaviour of the aircraft (ie noises and smells), they can leave their seat providing it is safe to do so.
If they have been given notification of an imminent take off (cabin bell 'dings') then they must remain seated unless for an evacuation.
Call bells are not answered because usually it is a request for water or accidental button press on the handset for the entertainment.
If you have any concerns, try and summon the crew with hand gestures - there should always be someone in eyesight as they are required to view the cabin when seated.
If there is more than a few of you with a genuine concern and you can't get their attention, stand up (if safe). You'll soon have their attention.
Six
1. Crew may not respond to a call button during taxi because they are required to be in their seat and secured at this time. In extenuating circumstances (and safety permitting) they may be released from their seat by whoever is in charge to ensure there is no emergency situation onboard.
BA for example - Once crew have been asked to take their seat, they must remain seated and strapped into their harness unless they need to attend to a 'safety related matter'. Indeed, but they can use their own discretion, no permission needed.
Evacuation is an obvious one, which they can initiate themselves.
Any other safety related matter such as overhead bins opening, passengers standing, or noticing something unusual regarding the behaviour of the aircraft (ie noises and smells), they can leave their seat providing it is safe to do so.
If they have been given notification of an imminent take off (cabin bell 'dings') then they must remain seated unless for an evacuation.
Call bells are not answered because usually it is a request for water or accidental button press on the handset for the entertainment.
If you have any concerns, try and summon the crew with hand gestures - there should always be someone in eyesight as they are required to view the cabin when seated.
If there is more than a few of you with a genuine concern and you can't get their attention, stand up (if safe). You'll soon have their attention.
Six
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Sriajuda - she was right when she said 'it was not dangerous' - because even superman couldn't open the door with the pressure differential. I'm not a pilot, but I don't think the Captain has to activate it - but possibly this is the case, although I can't think why it would be.
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Only reported an issue once in 20 years...
Like many on this thread, I've a few million air miles under my belt but did report and get a B777 turned back just before the runaway in Houston one time. I noticed that with the flaps up there was a large black rubber looking "thing" sticking up out of the rear of the wing. By the time I had pushed the call button, the Captain had lowered flaps for take off as he was taxiing out, and the rubber had vanished. The cabin crew who attended asked me if I though she should call the cockpit! I suggested yes, since as a private pilot myself it was fairly obvious things shouldn't stick up out of the wing and whilst I may only have been a rubber boot for the flaps, I have no idea what that may have done flapping around at Mach 0.85. The co-pilot to his credit came down the back whilst we were still taxiing, but couldn't see anything. I suggested they bring the flaps back up to see if it re-appeared, and fortunately it did. They turned the plane round, and got an engineer to glue it back in place. 40 mins later we were on our way and made up the time on route back to the UK. So, in the end, happy I pressed the button. Most likely it wouldn't have mattered, but since I'm not the bloke at the front, I'd rather let them take an informed decision when something was obviously wrong.
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Someone mentioned Kegworth? From what I know of that accident, if anyone had reported it - it certainly would have been fairly obvious to an engineer of any type sitting aft of the wing - then it would have made a huge difference. Oddly enough, it was because East Midland - which they were almost on top of - is BMI's service base and it made sense to land there, if it had been possible (legally/operationally) to continue to Dublin, then the problem would have become obvious in plenty of time.
I was coming home from a course in Milwaukee via ORD a few years ago and unusually found myself with an empty seat next to me. I fancied moving the seat arm out of the way before dinner was served - the crew were doing it at the time - and cleared stuff up to move the arm .... click! Out went all the cabin lights in our half of the aeroplane!
Worse, there was a distinct smell of 'train set'. I rapidly returned the arm to level and, after a few seconds, the lights came up again.
I thought; 'Nah, that can't be me ...... can it?' As an engineer working on very high tech kit, I didn't want to burn anything, but I wanted to be sure. Up with the seat arm .. click! Out go the lights - smell of train set. Down with the arm and on come the lights. Oh yes, it is me. 
The next CC that came by - a bloke - I caught his eye and told him about the seat arm.
He assured me that they would deal with it as soon as they could and rushed off to serve dinner. As I was leaving the plane I reminded both him and what I thought was the Purser - do they have Pursers on American Airlines? - but I bet that aeroplane took off again with a very dodgy electrical fault in 36G!
Roger.
I was coming home from a course in Milwaukee via ORD a few years ago and unusually found myself with an empty seat next to me. I fancied moving the seat arm out of the way before dinner was served - the crew were doing it at the time - and cleared stuff up to move the arm .... click! Out went all the cabin lights in our half of the aeroplane!
Worse, there was a distinct smell of 'train set'. I rapidly returned the arm to level and, after a few seconds, the lights came up again. I thought; 'Nah, that can't be me ...... can it?' As an engineer working on very high tech kit, I didn't want to burn anything, but I wanted to be sure. Up with the seat arm .. click! Out go the lights - smell of train set.
Down with the arm and on come the lights. Oh yes, it is me. The next CC that came by - a bloke - I caught his eye and told him about the seat arm.He assured me that they would deal with it as soon as they could and rushed off to serve dinner. As I was leaving the plane I reminded both him and what I thought was the Purser - do they have Pursers on American Airlines? - but I bet that aeroplane took off again with a very dodgy electrical fault in 36G!
Roger.
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Flapsforty: "Strapping lad with the big hands all FEs seemed to have, carrying a huge flashlight. Grins at me big time and goes "Ok where´s your hole babe?"
I show him, he shines the torch and the grin is gone.
Long story short, we flew low level to Caracas, a boarding bridge rather than boarding stairs airport, where the aircraft was grounded for 24 hours and a riveter was flown in to fix it."
How does an aircraft develope a hole in the fuselage?
Did the wheels pick up a piece of something and fling it up on the earlier take off? [a la the French Concorde accident?]
I show him, he shines the torch and the grin is gone.
Long story short, we flew low level to Caracas, a boarding bridge rather than boarding stairs airport, where the aircraft was grounded for 24 hours and a riveter was flown in to fix it."
How does an aircraft develope a hole in the fuselage?
Did the wheels pick up a piece of something and fling it up on the earlier take off? [a la the French Concorde accident?]
PPRuNe Handmaiden
TCC. Someone drove into it.
Honey cart, truck delivering the catering, the stairs...
Baggage carts..
List is endless.
Honey cart, truck delivering the catering, the stairs...
Baggage carts..
List is endless.
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What should I have done?
Recently sat next to emergency door, row 12 on a A320. Passenger sat in aisle seat totally ignored safety briefing continuing to read newspaper. Was in two minds to press call button but knowing that I was the one who would have been first out was I wrong ?
Doesn't it work both ways?
If the guy was on an aisle seat, wouldn't he have been in the eyeline of one of the CC doing the demo? Or are they just resigned to some of the PAX - even in the exit row - totally ignoring them.
Not all, of course... I was on a EZ flight a couple of years back when the briefing was stopped and re-started "for the benefit of the couple in row X who have been gossiping during this important safety briefing!" How we did snigger...
Not all, of course... I was on a EZ flight a couple of years back when the briefing was stopped and re-started "for the benefit of the couple in row X who have been gossiping during this important safety briefing!" How we did snigger...
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On a simmilar note..
I work on the ground, and whoever is the "headset man" for that flight is required to do a pre-departure walk around. This is to check that all doors/panels are secure, there is no FOD lying around, all ground equipment is clear of the aircraft etc etc.
On our walk round if we notice anything that we think may be a problem we are supposed to report it to the dispatcher who would in turn pass it to the flight deck, or pass it over the headset if the doors are already closed. This is the case even if we think it may delay the flight.
No one should be discouraged from reporting anything they think may be untoward, be it SLF or ground staff. Yes it may be trivial, or may cause a delay. However if it goes unreported it may cause something a lot worse.
I work on the ground, and whoever is the "headset man" for that flight is required to do a pre-departure walk around. This is to check that all doors/panels are secure, there is no FOD lying around, all ground equipment is clear of the aircraft etc etc.
On our walk round if we notice anything that we think may be a problem we are supposed to report it to the dispatcher who would in turn pass it to the flight deck, or pass it over the headset if the doors are already closed. This is the case even if we think it may delay the flight.
No one should be discouraged from reporting anything they think may be untoward, be it SLF or ground staff. Yes it may be trivial, or may cause a delay. However if it goes unreported it may cause something a lot worse.
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Im a ramp agent, not long after i first started I jumped in a hold of a 737-800. this was the first flight of the day and i jumped in to do a inspection of cargo nets and all the usual stuff you have to do before loading the kite. Anyway there was a brown spray that looked like oil on the floor of the hold, and it looked like it has sprayed out of what turned out to be the fire detector 
So i shat it and called the engineer out who jumped in super fast to see what i had found. after about two seconds he had worked out it was coffee.
Yes i got the piss ripped out of me for a very long time but, thats expected in this line of work. But even so if i ever jump in a hold again and somethings not right i'll still report as they know more about kites then me i just throw bags about.
So i shat it and called the engineer out who jumped in super fast to see what i had found. after about two seconds he had worked out it was coffee. Yes i got the piss ripped out of me for a very long time but, thats expected in this line of work. But even so if i ever jump in a hold again and somethings not right i'll still report as they know more about kites then me i just throw bags about.
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Much apreciated thread!
I'm just SLF who has not yet logged millions of miles, but who is interested in (not only) A/C technology since young and enjoyed flights in single engine and gliders, too.
Although logistics, marketing and actual prices try to imagine that taking a flight might be like taking a bus, it's something different.
Even on a bus I'd try to make sure the driver is aware of dripping fluid, pices falling apart, the smell of melting insulation or unusual noises he might not be able to hear because he's sitting at the front of the vehicle, has his window open and is concentrated to find his way through the traffic.
I'd rather sit around some hours to wait for replacement than crashing into something. Even on ships, you'll still float for long time if the engine quits or the rudder gets stuck (provided no storms are heading for you).
Aboard an airliner, you need the structure in good shape, steering working, and some engines running, specially if you're going 'feet wet' over an ocean...
OK, the point (again) is: I'd not hesitate to make Cabin Crew aware of something unusual or anything that is recognized by more people than just me. They are the ones to decide and call for further inspection if they don't know if it's safe, even if that would lead to a delay. Or maybe they are the ones to tell me that it's fine and I shouldn't worry and at best tell me where the noise is coming from and maybe that I'm the 78th passengenr who mentions it today...
Yes, I'd pay the same price for my flight even without meals/drinks as long as there is someone to take care of me and my fellow passengers.
We're not just on a bus but we're on a BIG bus and we're even going to fly
I'm just SLF who has not yet logged millions of miles, but who is interested in (not only) A/C technology since young and enjoyed flights in single engine and gliders, too.
Although logistics, marketing and actual prices try to imagine that taking a flight might be like taking a bus, it's something different.
Even on a bus I'd try to make sure the driver is aware of dripping fluid, pices falling apart, the smell of melting insulation or unusual noises he might not be able to hear because he's sitting at the front of the vehicle, has his window open and is concentrated to find his way through the traffic.
I'd rather sit around some hours to wait for replacement than crashing into something. Even on ships, you'll still float for long time if the engine quits or the rudder gets stuck (provided no storms are heading for you).
Aboard an airliner, you need the structure in good shape, steering working, and some engines running, specially if you're going 'feet wet' over an ocean...
OK, the point (again) is: I'd not hesitate to make Cabin Crew aware of something unusual or anything that is recognized by more people than just me. They are the ones to decide and call for further inspection if they don't know if it's safe, even if that would lead to a delay. Or maybe they are the ones to tell me that it's fine and I shouldn't worry and at best tell me where the noise is coming from and maybe that I'm the 78th passengenr who mentions it today...
Yes, I'd pay the same price for my flight even without meals/drinks as long as there is someone to take care of me and my fellow passengers.
We're not just on a bus but we're on a BIG bus and we're even going to fly
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I'm a cabin manager on a B777 and have been flying for a number of years - all I can say is I always encourage you to point out anything at all that you see as being unusual - whether you see it, smell it or hear it.
I actually specifically mention in my briefings to my crew that they should always take any comments from pax seriously and report them to me or the Capt. Just the same I always ask the crew to let us know of the same issues as well.
Unfortunately there are some crew out there who don't respond the best when the same "normal" nosie that they hear everyday is pointed out but do know that we very much value your concerns.
As others have said once crew have been seated for take-off they normally won't respond to call bells, if you notice something then you'll need to get a crew members attention another way (pressing the call bell multiple times will normally be enough).
History tells us that had pax & crew spoken up many times that very unfortunate outcomes would have been very different.
So speak up - if it's something normal we'll let you know and if it's not then that's your good deed of the day!
Happy flying.
I actually specifically mention in my briefings to my crew that they should always take any comments from pax seriously and report them to me or the Capt. Just the same I always ask the crew to let us know of the same issues as well.
Unfortunately there are some crew out there who don't respond the best when the same "normal" nosie that they hear everyday is pointed out but do know that we very much value your concerns.
As others have said once crew have been seated for take-off they normally won't respond to call bells, if you notice something then you'll need to get a crew members attention another way (pressing the call bell multiple times will normally be enough).
History tells us that had pax & crew spoken up many times that very unfortunate outcomes would have been very different.
So speak up - if it's something normal we'll let you know and if it's not then that's your good deed of the day!
Happy flying.
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I seem to remember an Aloha B737 had a woman who, upon boarding, noticed a 'bulge and small crack' by the front door. If she had mentioned it earlier, Aloha would still have a FA with them. Her body was never found
