KLM Economy - Whats it like?
Delay? What delay?
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KLM Economy - Whats it like?
I'm off to Vancouver at the end of the month on KLM, and I'm travelling economy. Can anyone give me an idea what it will be like? Its the first time I've used KLM (other than KLM Uk). My Swiss colleagues here in Zurich tell me that I'm in for a bad time. I'd like some informed opinion. Thanks.
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With apologies to the Flapping Forties out there, unfortunately I fear your friend is right. I haven't experience of their long-haul economy class, but I have flown quite a bit in long haul business (I was RoyalWing until quite recently).
KLM Business is more or less equivalent to Cathay economy, with a bit more legroom. They have just introduced new seats in business which brings that to about where the best airlines were ten years ago. The food is still pretty dire by comparison with CX (or even compared to BA on a good day). The service varies from perfectly OK down to pretty basic. It seems to help enormously if you are Dutch, but in any case it is pretty variable.
Finally, of course, no Euro or American airline is going to match CX for the attractiveness of the cabin crew (I use the term not only in the physical sense). Political correctness notwithstanding, when I am cooped up in a plane for 12-15 hours part of the service I am paying for is to have friendly and attractive women providing it. If they could find a way of coupling them with the best of the BA CSDs - the ones who have the ability to make a whole plane laugh - then they would be absolutely unbeatable.
On Saturday I'm off to SFO in CX business, so I'm a happy bunny. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> Sorry to Hijack a KLM thread with a CX-promo - I have no connection except being a satisfied customer (and a somewhat dissatisfied investor in their shares <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> ).
[ 07 February 2002: Message edited by: HKGpax ]
[ 07 February 2002: Message edited by: HKGpax ]</p>
KLM Business is more or less equivalent to Cathay economy, with a bit more legroom. They have just introduced new seats in business which brings that to about where the best airlines were ten years ago. The food is still pretty dire by comparison with CX (or even compared to BA on a good day). The service varies from perfectly OK down to pretty basic. It seems to help enormously if you are Dutch, but in any case it is pretty variable.
Finally, of course, no Euro or American airline is going to match CX for the attractiveness of the cabin crew (I use the term not only in the physical sense). Political correctness notwithstanding, when I am cooped up in a plane for 12-15 hours part of the service I am paying for is to have friendly and attractive women providing it. If they could find a way of coupling them with the best of the BA CSDs - the ones who have the ability to make a whole plane laugh - then they would be absolutely unbeatable.
On Saturday I'm off to SFO in CX business, so I'm a happy bunny. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> Sorry to Hijack a KLM thread with a CX-promo - I have no connection except being a satisfied customer (and a somewhat dissatisfied investor in their shares <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> ).
[ 07 February 2002: Message edited by: HKGpax ]
[ 07 February 2002: Message edited by: HKGpax ]</p>
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HKGpax, no worries <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> It isn't me who decides seat pitch/meal quantity/quality etc. So nothing of the above I take personally.. .And when it comes to the FA's providing the service, I happen to agree with you. No one (and you are not doing that, I know) can demand that we are beauty queeens, but friendly and attractive; absolutely!!. .If yu don't care about looking the best you can at work, or don't have the abilty to stay friendly under adverse circumstance, you should NOT be a flight attendant
What you write about the airline I work for is your considered and honest opnion . You were asked for it here. Fair enough mate.
Still sorry to hear that's the way you percieve us, but can't argue with you on points as I have no experience with CX or any other airlines apart from SAS, NW and BA short haul.
Mishandled, hope that your trip won't be quite as grim as you fear.. .Best of luck!
What you write about the airline I work for is your considered and honest opnion . You were asked for it here. Fair enough mate.
Still sorry to hear that's the way you percieve us, but can't argue with you on points as I have no experience with CX or any other airlines apart from SAS, NW and BA short haul.
Mishandled, hope that your trip won't be quite as grim as you fear.. .Best of luck!
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In KLM economy I think the food a bit miserly, but otherwise everything fine. Interiors clean and tidy, with seat pitch on their 763's and 738's causing me (big tall guy) no more problems than other operator's aircraft. What the cabin crew lose in attractiveness (sorry Flaps, I am sure you are the exception <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ) they make up for in efficiency.
Leastways, have just booked with KLM in preference to AF (price about the same) for a forthcoming flight. Must wear my PPRuNe badge.
[Edited for typo]
[ 09 February 2002: Message edited by: Evening Star ]</p>
Leastways, have just booked with KLM in preference to AF (price about the same) for a forthcoming flight. Must wear my PPRuNe badge.
[Edited for typo]
[ 09 February 2002: Message edited by: Evening Star ]</p>
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I am a KLM flight attendant and I think this is a difficult question to answer. What is good and what is not? I may like the inflight meal and you may not like it at all, it is very personal. You know what I mean? Yes, KLM has had better times when it comes to inflight service/meals in economy class, but times have changed, especially after Sep. 11th. All airlines are trying to save money, so is KLM. Tickets are getting less expensive and passengers still hope to have First Class service in economy. That is not possible. That doesn't mean the service should be bad, don't get me wrong, but it has changed compaired to ten years ago.
I do agree that there are better airlines than KLM, but I still believe that KLM is a good average airline. The food is ok, maybe it could be better, but again...what is good and what is not? When I collect the meal trays and I see that most passengers have finished their meal, I always think: " that meal must have been good otherwise they wouldn't have finished it". . .I have flown CX several times in economy class and I wasn't very impressed to be honest with you. CX is a good airline, believe me, but the food for me was the same as the food we serve on KLM....that is my opinion. If you expect a first class meal in economy, you are going to be disappointed, but that goes for all airlines. Don't expect too much of it and than you will not be disappointed.
The legspace on KLM is average, there are airlines with more legspace like American Airlines. I guess that is the only thing I would like my boss to change!
Have a good flight!
I do agree that there are better airlines than KLM, but I still believe that KLM is a good average airline. The food is ok, maybe it could be better, but again...what is good and what is not? When I collect the meal trays and I see that most passengers have finished their meal, I always think: " that meal must have been good otherwise they wouldn't have finished it". . .I have flown CX several times in economy class and I wasn't very impressed to be honest with you. CX is a good airline, believe me, but the food for me was the same as the food we serve on KLM....that is my opinion. If you expect a first class meal in economy, you are going to be disappointed, but that goes for all airlines. Don't expect too much of it and than you will not be disappointed.
The legspace on KLM is average, there are airlines with more legspace like American Airlines. I guess that is the only thing I would like my boss to change!
Have a good flight!
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Food will always vary enormously even within one airline when you're starting somewhere that isn't their base, and you'll find that most companies' food out of one given airport is very similar - because the food is down to the catering company.
As for attractiveness, well, that's all down to personal taste. I have no complaints about any airline I've flown with, and particularly not with KLM. As I say, taste is a very subjective judgement, but having flown several times over the past three years with KLM, their cabin crew are every bit as lovely as most I've come across.
However...
The attractiveness of the crew always comes second in my mind to how well they do their job, whether I feel I can trust them in an emergency - whether I am safe putting my life in their hands. Having seen the training they get, and seen them working, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with KLM.
If you want a gorgeous trolly dolly who will smile sweetly at you, bring you a nice hot towel and provide material for your fantasies, then fine. But don't start whingeing if they burst into tears when anything goes wrong and run and hide in the toilets.
If superficiality is all you want - then that's all you'll get.
As for attractiveness, well, that's all down to personal taste. I have no complaints about any airline I've flown with, and particularly not with KLM. As I say, taste is a very subjective judgement, but having flown several times over the past three years with KLM, their cabin crew are every bit as lovely as most I've come across.
However...
The attractiveness of the crew always comes second in my mind to how well they do their job, whether I feel I can trust them in an emergency - whether I am safe putting my life in their hands. Having seen the training they get, and seen them working, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with KLM.
If you want a gorgeous trolly dolly who will smile sweetly at you, bring you a nice hot towel and provide material for your fantasies, then fine. But don't start whingeing if they burst into tears when anything goes wrong and run and hide in the toilets.
If superficiality is all you want - then that's all you'll get.
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Nothing wrong with the attractiveness of KLM hosties! Some of them are lovely you know...
Comparing KLM economy with the likes of BA/Air France or some of the US carriers, they are very much the same to be honest. I have flown to Vancouver with KLM a couple of years ago and had no complaints, but then I am fairly easily pleased <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
From what I remember KLM was the cheapest operator on the route from Northern Europe to YVR.
Comparing KLM economy with the likes of BA/Air France or some of the US carriers, they are very much the same to be honest. I have flown to Vancouver with KLM a couple of years ago and had no complaints, but then I am fairly easily pleased <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
From what I remember KLM was the cheapest operator on the route from Northern Europe to YVR.
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It is all very subjective and depends on the crew and service you get on a given day.
I've flown CX many times - mostly Business Class when my company was paying. I remember polite, efficient cabin crew and on-time flights. I also remember late flights, poor safety briefings and a dose of food poisoning.
KLM demand a very high standard from their CC - I've yet to meet one that didn't speak better English than some of my early girlfriends. Food (as already mentioned) is not always under the control of the carrier. Seat pitch? Dare I mention revenue-driven?
You pay your money and take your choice. KLM have an excellent safety record (as does CX). I have enjoyed flying with them in the past and will be delighted to do so again.
I've flown CX many times - mostly Business Class when my company was paying. I remember polite, efficient cabin crew and on-time flights. I also remember late flights, poor safety briefings and a dose of food poisoning.
KLM demand a very high standard from their CC - I've yet to meet one that didn't speak better English than some of my early girlfriends. Food (as already mentioned) is not always under the control of the carrier. Seat pitch? Dare I mention revenue-driven?
You pay your money and take your choice. KLM have an excellent safety record (as does CX). I have enjoyed flying with them in the past and will be delighted to do so again.
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The KLM fa's that I have met are charming and friendly. More important, they can do their job. No complaints here.
However, "beautiful" women aren't my main source of interest.. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> Come to think of it, women aren't my main source of interest...
However, "beautiful" women aren't my main source of interest.. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> Come to think of it, women aren't my main source of interest...
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I've travelled on many airlines, short and long-haul and KLM are as good as others - bearing in mind that each journey can be different.
I had an horrendous experience with one FA in BA business a few years ago going to Middle East, but other BA flights both economy and business have been average to good. Similarly with other airlines from domestic to overseas - ranging from poor to superb.
The most harrassing part of the journey was not the flight, but the check in, customs and security which, dependent upon how you were treated, either started the journey in a good mood or bad - and that can impinge on the way you react to the flight.
Mostly, if I get help when I need it, and I land safely - I'm a happy bunny.
My experience of KLM crews, the ones I've met are great (but I'm biased) <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
I had an horrendous experience with one FA in BA business a few years ago going to Middle East, but other BA flights both economy and business have been average to good. Similarly with other airlines from domestic to overseas - ranging from poor to superb.
The most harrassing part of the journey was not the flight, but the check in, customs and security which, dependent upon how you were treated, either started the journey in a good mood or bad - and that can impinge on the way you react to the flight.
Mostly, if I get help when I need it, and I land safely - I'm a happy bunny.
My experience of KLM crews, the ones I've met are great (but I'm biased) <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
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I love the KLM hosties! Always had great service and know there stuff. And there one of the very few Europeans not against bein complemented on havin a nice @ss either.
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KLM is a great airline, excellent safety record and very professional crew.... .Well depends what are u looking for, if I am looking for a good meal I go to a first class restaurant.. .When I fly I look for safety and professionalism, a good @ss really doesn't matter. .I'd rather invest on my safety!But again the world is beautiful because it varies and we all got different ideas and needs.. .Finally as someone said before.... .There to save ur @ss not 2 kiss it <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
[ 09 February 2002: Message edited by: Xenia ]</p>
[ 09 February 2002: Message edited by: Xenia ]</p>
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Xenia
Completely off-topic, but let me welcome you to *my* forum. I've always wanted a moderator!. . <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Cheers - SLF
Completely off-topic, but let me welcome you to *my* forum. I've always wanted a moderator!. . <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Cheers - SLF
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The flight to Vancouver might be operated by Martinair, another Dutch airline. This summer schedule KLM will take over the flights from Martinair, but in February I think Martinair is still flying this stretch for KLM......just for your info!
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I flew KLM to JFK a few years back. My lasting recollection was that they only served us 2 alcoholic drinks during the entire Atlantic crossing, including those served with the meal. OK - so I was travelling with my ice hockey team and perhaps they thought we might get a bit loud, but those not part of the main group were also limited to a couple of bevvies.
Yes, we all know about the legal requirements not to be drunk on a plane etc, but the way in which it was forced upon us wasn't appreciated. Granted, it's difficult to determine when one person is drunk and another isn't, so I guess a predetermined limit as to the number of drinks which can be served needs to be set and will not please all of the people all of the time....
Yes, we all know about the legal requirements not to be drunk on a plane etc, but the way in which it was forced upon us wasn't appreciated. Granted, it's difficult to determine when one person is drunk and another isn't, so I guess a predetermined limit as to the number of drinks which can be served needs to be set and will not please all of the people all of the time....
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I work for a development charity and put in a lot of miles across the Atlantic and around Africa and I've never flown anything other than economy. As far as I can tell, for those of us at the back end of the plane, there is very little to choose between the major airlines. The seat pitch is always too small (and it seems to get smaller the longer you are in the air), the food is acceptable and the staff are friendly and efficient. KLM are no better or worse than the others.
That being said, one of our best family memories come from a flight with KLM. The crew discovered that we were leaving West Africa after twelve years in the heat and humidity and welcomed us aboard with champagne and cokes for the kids even though we were in economy. Just a little gesture, but it did us an awful lot of good.
That being said, one of our best family memories come from a flight with KLM. The crew discovered that we were leaving West Africa after twelve years in the heat and humidity and welcomed us aboard with champagne and cokes for the kids even though we were in economy. Just a little gesture, but it did us an awful lot of good.
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Nick24,
I find it a bit strange to read that you were only served two alcoholic drinks on your flight. I wasn't there so I cannot judge the situation, but passengers can get as many drinks as they like as long as they don't get drunk! Sorry to read that you have had a different experience. Maybe I can make it up on another flight?
I find it a bit strange to read that you were only served two alcoholic drinks on your flight. I wasn't there so I cannot judge the situation, but passengers can get as many drinks as they like as long as they don't get drunk! Sorry to read that you have had a different experience. Maybe I can make it up on another flight?
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Thanks CM65 - that's very kind!
Mind you, we did get 2 drinks from CWL to AMS, but then the AMS-JFK part was hard work! Not sure when I'll be on KLM next. I've got a return trip to GLA from LHR with BA on Thursday, then LHR to EWR the next day with the Woolie Pullies. Both in coach. Last time I went to NYC it was with BA on their 777 service which was pretty empty and very enjoyable.
Mind you, we did get 2 drinks from CWL to AMS, but then the AMS-JFK part was hard work! Not sure when I'll be on KLM next. I've got a return trip to GLA from LHR with BA on Thursday, then LHR to EWR the next day with the Woolie Pullies. Both in coach. Last time I went to NYC it was with BA on their 777 service which was pretty empty and very enjoyable.
