Obese passengers
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Obese passengers
This may be more of a problem in the fat U.S., which is my home. I find less-fat people in Europe, and almost none in my Asia travels.
This is not a joke. Obesity is a disease. I have had my own weight management issues and am sympathetic to the overweight. But, obesity is increasing worldwide and is now at record levels in developed nations. It's time to begin the dialogue. My concerns as a frequent-flyer are as follows:
1. Why do I, as a normal weight person, have to subsidize the transport of their extra weight? It's not fair.
2. Why don't airlines charge by the pound, like DHL or FedEx? As a public health issue, that would be an economic incentive for the obese to lose weight.
3. I think seats could be designed with variable-spaced armrests. The passenger could pay ticket price that factored in weight and width of their hips, and the armrest spacing could be adjusted accordingly. This would be a further incentive to lose weight.
4. Do I as a passenger have to put up with second-hand fat? That is where the fat of an adjacent passenger spills over the armrest and pins me in my seat. Don't I have "rights" to my seat space?
5. Second-hand fat is a health hazard to others. When I am pinned in my seat, I can't move as much. That puts me at increased risk for deep-vein thrombosis (DVT). The airlines would seem to have some liability here in the event I am pinned in by a fat person and I have a DVT episode.
Comments please.
This is not a joke. Obesity is a disease. I have had my own weight management issues and am sympathetic to the overweight. But, obesity is increasing worldwide and is now at record levels in developed nations. It's time to begin the dialogue. My concerns as a frequent-flyer are as follows:
1. Why do I, as a normal weight person, have to subsidize the transport of their extra weight? It's not fair.
2. Why don't airlines charge by the pound, like DHL or FedEx? As a public health issue, that would be an economic incentive for the obese to lose weight.
3. I think seats could be designed with variable-spaced armrests. The passenger could pay ticket price that factored in weight and width of their hips, and the armrest spacing could be adjusted accordingly. This would be a further incentive to lose weight.
4. Do I as a passenger have to put up with second-hand fat? That is where the fat of an adjacent passenger spills over the armrest and pins me in my seat. Don't I have "rights" to my seat space?
5. Second-hand fat is a health hazard to others. When I am pinned in my seat, I can't move as much. That puts me at increased risk for deep-vein thrombosis (DVT). The airlines would seem to have some liability here in the event I am pinned in by a fat person and I have a DVT episode.
Comments please.
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I think that weight shouldn't be the issue, rather than overall size...perhaps people like handluggage should have to fit in a certain sized box, otherwise you should forced to buy two seats, or upgrade to business class for more room. There is nothing worse than sitting in economy next to a really fat person...once from AMS to SEA I had to sit next to a guy who was so fat, his fat spilled over my controls for volume, reading light etc. therefore couldn't use them (I didn't feel like saying 'excuse me sir, can I move your fat so I can plug my headphones in...)
Very annoying..
Very annoying..
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Eboy,
I COULD NOT AGREE MORE!
I just had to pay 500 sterling to BA to carry an excess baggage of 15Kg from Tokyo to London. The guy who checked in behind me weighed at least 30Kg more than me and paid the same ticket price!
Charge by the total weight I say!
I COULD NOT AGREE MORE!
I just had to pay 500 sterling to BA to carry an excess baggage of 15Kg from Tokyo to London. The guy who checked in behind me weighed at least 30Kg more than me and paid the same ticket price!
Charge by the total weight I say!
Everything is under control.
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Nihontraveler, you raise an interesting fairness issue I hadn't considered. Why weigh luggage, charge for extra weight, but not weigh passengers? It seems you are being discriminated against due to your physical characteristics (normal weight), for which you could probably sue if you were in the U.S. My Japanese friends are the trimmest and healthiest people I know. One of the healthiest diets in the world. Stay away from those U.S. fast food restaurants.
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My biggest bitch is the hypocrisy at Perth Airport in WA, where carry on baggage is weighed before entering customs to make sure it doesn't exceed the 5kgs. Then after going into the departure hall all sorts of duty free goods can be purchased, it is common to see people lugging probably 20kgs onto aircraft. I might add that all sorts of knives can be purchased in these shops with no more checks before boarding aircraft.
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I am fatter than average. I am also richer than average. Airlines do not scorn my business - in fact they seem to seek it.
Why can that be?
Pax on Hajj flights are notably underweight by Western standards. They are reputed not to receive the highest levels of service on their journeys.
Why can that be?
Pax on Hajj flights are notably underweight by Western standards. They are reputed not to receive the highest levels of service on their journeys.
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You might be interested to know that in the US, you all weight the same in the airline's eyes. The airlines use the average weight method to determine the weight of the passengers. Depending on the time of year(an extra 5 pounds is allotted in the winter for heavier clothing) and the airlines program, you all weigh between 160 and 175 lbs. The logic is the hugely obese person will make up for the aneorexic one. Notice I did not say this was at all logical, just simply how things are done.
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Having pondered this issue most times I fly I'd like to see "mass trading" implemented.
Give all PAX an average weight.
Weigh each PAX with all baggage, "Step onto the scale Sir.".
If under the average "all up" weight you can "sell" this to a pool which "overweight" passengers buy from to meet thier excess weight / baggage problem from.
The payment could be in whatever airline points are relevant. With credit lost if not a member and cash if you don't have the points to spend
Only if there are loads of "overweight" passengers would extra fuel be needed, then the usual punative excess baggage charges could apply.
It'll probably never happen, but would be a boon for hand baggage only business travellers, and the obese could always travel light!
**Edited for the 1st smellin pistake I spotted, you can keep the rest...**
[ 21 September 2001: Message edited by: Memetic ]
Memetic : we don't allow unauthorised advertising on PPRuNe, such as that in your signature. I have edited your sig to remove the advertising. ---Mik, aka PPRuNe Dispatcher
[ 21 September 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Dispatcher ]
Give all PAX an average weight.
Weigh each PAX with all baggage, "Step onto the scale Sir.".
If under the average "all up" weight you can "sell" this to a pool which "overweight" passengers buy from to meet thier excess weight / baggage problem from.
The payment could be in whatever airline points are relevant. With credit lost if not a member and cash if you don't have the points to spend
Only if there are loads of "overweight" passengers would extra fuel be needed, then the usual punative excess baggage charges could apply.
It'll probably never happen, but would be a boon for hand baggage only business travellers, and the obese could always travel light!
**Edited for the 1st smellin pistake I spotted, you can keep the rest...**
[ 21 September 2001: Message edited by: Memetic ]
Memetic : we don't allow unauthorised advertising on PPRuNe, such as that in your signature. I have edited your sig to remove the advertising. ---Mik, aka PPRuNe Dispatcher
[ 21 September 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Dispatcher ]
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Apologies to all for breaking the advertising rule.
Marketing can be (bad) habit forming you know!
To save you asking, I had included a URL for a commercial site which I am involved with in my signature file, something I usually do, but will not be doing again here!
Memetic
[ 24 September 2001: Message edited by: Memetic ]
Marketing can be (bad) habit forming you know!
To save you asking
, I had included a URL for a commercial site which I am involved with in my signature file, something I usually do, but will not be doing again here!Memetic
[ 24 September 2001: Message edited by: Memetic ]
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Although I do agree, the following points apply...
*no 2 I think a law comes in to this somewhere becuase its "discrimination" to say that they should have to pay by the pound, + i dont think that would benifit anyone with a eating disorder as this may encourage.
*3 there would be a lot of "heath and safety" matters concerning this as the CAA would have to "agree" the new seats configeration and thats not the airlines issue its the aircraft manufatures
*4"yes" you have rights to your seat space, if there is someone envading your space just say something to him/her asking to move over or perhaps mention to the flight attendant after all its there sole pritoty to make sure you have a good flight.
* at the moment if the airline has given you any DVT prevention awareness i.e pamphalet or simply the air attendents giving you some simple instuctions on how to prevent this then you have no leg to stand on. + remember you are not stuck to your seat for the whole flight!! get up and move around its the lazy bastards that sit in there seat for the whole trip thats the people who are effected by DVT.
(sorry about the **** spelling)
*no 2 I think a law comes in to this somewhere becuase its "discrimination" to say that they should have to pay by the pound, + i dont think that would benifit anyone with a eating disorder as this may encourage.
*3 there would be a lot of "heath and safety" matters concerning this as the CAA would have to "agree" the new seats configeration and thats not the airlines issue its the aircraft manufatures
*4"yes" you have rights to your seat space, if there is someone envading your space just say something to him/her asking to move over or perhaps mention to the flight attendant after all its there sole pritoty to make sure you have a good flight.
* at the moment if the airline has given you any DVT prevention awareness i.e pamphalet or simply the air attendents giving you some simple instuctions on how to prevent this then you have no leg to stand on. + remember you are not stuck to your seat for the whole flight!! get up and move around its the lazy bastards that sit in there seat for the whole trip thats the people who are effected by DVT.
(sorry about the **** spelling)
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Beckxy - just a small point regards my and all other cabin crew responsibility. My sole responsibilty is not to ensure that you have a good flight (although we all do our best most of the time), but it is to hurl you down a slide as the plane burns behind you. I won't move a larger than average pax because they're invading your space, that's for you to negotiate with them. I will move them if they're sat next to an exit and pose a safety threat. The sooner all of our passengers realise that we are there for your safety first and foremost, and then we'll do our best to look after you, the sooner thousands of us "trolley dollies" will be happier. After all, if you were on a train / bus would you hunt out the ticket inspector to move a larger than average person? And what about their rights and dignity too?
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All Airlines should accept without any hesitation people who are 'gravity challenged'.
And then fly all the fat B@#$ards to Bangladesh where they can leave them to starve for six months untill they are slim enough to be part of the human race again!!!
Just my humble opinion
Mind you I used to fly SAS a lot a few years back and Helga the Wagon Dragon was the fattest of them all!!
[ 06 October 2001: Message edited by: sirwa69 ]
And then fly all the fat B@#$ards to Bangladesh where they can leave them to starve for six months untill they are slim enough to be part of the human race again!!!
Just my humble opinion
Mind you I used to fly SAS a lot a few years back and Helga the Wagon Dragon was the fattest of them all!!
[ 06 October 2001: Message edited by: sirwa69 ]
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As someone who has struggled for most of my life with a weight problem for medical reasons (underactive thyroid) I have to say that I am disgusted by the bigotry and intollerance of most of the "people" (I use the term in its loosest possible sense) who have posted above. The kind of contemptuous language and tone you employ is that usually meted out to rapists, child mollesters and criminals of the worst order. Yes - I have occasionally found myself alongside another large person and have exercised my right to move if there are free seats elsewhere after takeoff. If the greedy airlines had not steadily reduced the amount of space available by packing more and more hapless sardines into planes then the miserable amount currently alloted would not be such a problem. Place the blame where it lies!
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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On a related subject.... if you are going to charge extra for larger people, you may have to make the seats bigger... I have a similar problem, being 6'5", and I just don't fit into some airlines definition of economy seating. If you're going to charge me more because I take up more space, well you can be sure that I'm going to demand more space for my money. I do that by not flying economy if I cann help it, but then, I'm fortunate enough to be able to.
The point is, if you are seriously proposing charging larger (either taller or heavier) people more for the trip, then don't be at all surprised when they demand - fairly - more room.
The point is, if you are seriously proposing charging larger (either taller or heavier) people more for the trip, then don't be at all surprised when they demand - fairly - more room.
Rentaghost
Conversely, less seats = need for more flights to meet demand. More flights = more jobs for pilots and cabin crew Let the market work out the economics.
Consider also that while the seats are getting smaller, people are getting bigger (CoodaKid#2 is 6'1" and 75Kg at 13. I'm told this is evolution at work and not abnormal) <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Conversely, less seats = need for more flights to meet demand. More flights = more jobs for pilots and cabin crew
Let the market work out the economics.Consider also that while the seats are getting smaller, people are getting bigger (CoodaKid#2 is 6'1" and 75Kg at 13. I'm told this is evolution at work and not abnormal) <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
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Maybe thats the Airbus theory behind the A380, a sort of airliner for the humungous pax of the future? Bigger pax = bigger seats = more room required = same number of pax as the 747 used to carry when we were smaller.
Kerms <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Kerms <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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yup, a recurring problem, alas! <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
And yes I do feel sorry for pax who do not fit into their seats, one way or another. Never have seen a fat pax bulging over into his neighbour's seat who wasn't acutely aware of it, and usually pretty embarassed by the whole thing.
And indeed, it IS a royal pain, having to cross the ocean sitting next to one of these oversized people.
Same goes for the tall people, it almost hurts to see the way some of them have to sit with their knees around their ears and still they get into problems when their neighbour-row-in-front reclines the seat.
But Beckxy, you can't be serious expecting us FA's to solve these problems?? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
second thoughts, you probably are. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Wouldn't be the first time that an esteemed passenger demands that I single handedly rebuild the aircraft, unscrew the seats from the floor, romove the armrest with my cardboard nail file, or otherwise fix the problem and fix it right NOW!
But you know what? As much as we would love to fix your problems one and all (yes, inspite of the fact that like cloud nine says, we are NOT there solely to make you flight pleasurable, that is in fact our aim always)we are not magicians!
Beckxy and all you othet travelers who seem to think that we could really do whatever you ask of us as long as we really wanted to, please remember that FA's like yourselves, have no influence whatsoever on the configuration of the AC, nor can we miraculously create extra seats out of thin air. We do realize that the comfort we offer is usually not at all what has been promised you in the sleek add campaigns payed for by our companies. (and that we are no-way nearly as pretty as the average Singapore add-girl either <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> )
But sometimes I wonder if it isn't time for some of you passengers to wake up to the realities of flying?
<ul type="square">[*]Seats in economy class are generally SMALL.[*]A full economy class is NOT a pleasure to be in.[*]An FA can have 50 pax to look after, so if he or she does not run to get you your coffee the very moment you want it, it's usually not out of malicious intent, but because she is trying to feed the other 49![*]ATC slots are NOT the fault of the airline, pilot of flight attendant.[*]The Captain did NOT create the foggy conditions at the destination airport just so he could have the pleasure of going into a holding pattern and use up his extra fuel for kicks.[*]We do NOT enjoy you missing your connection, in fact we worry and fret about exactly that as soon as we hear the dreaded word "delay" coming out of the cockpit.[/list]
Dear passengers, as a rule those of us who work on the aircraft do so because we like trying to make you, our passengers, feel welcome and we enjoy giving you the best servuce we possibly can.
And as for the pilots, you know what? They love their jobs as well. The silly blokes actually try their damnedest to get you there on time every time in the safest possible way!
And if we don't meet your expectations, which we frequently do not, believe me, we M I N D!
So please once in while stop telling us that we are a bunch of stupid trolley tarts who are only in it for the glamour (what frigging glamour? <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> ) or overpaid flyboys looking for totty!
And believe us when we tell you the reason for the delay, or when we explain that we can NOT enlarge your seat!
sorry, rant mode induced by a normal six-day work week, sleeping in 5 different hotels, visiting 12 europeean airports briefly, talking pax through 1 go around, 1 all-off-you-get-off-the-ac-quick-as-you-can-cause-we-have-fuel-gushing-from-the-wing, plus all the other usual everyday cr*p..........
And yes I do feel sorry for pax who do not fit into their seats, one way or another. Never have seen a fat pax bulging over into his neighbour's seat who wasn't acutely aware of it, and usually pretty embarassed by the whole thing.
And indeed, it IS a royal pain, having to cross the ocean sitting next to one of these oversized people.
Same goes for the tall people, it almost hurts to see the way some of them have to sit with their knees around their ears and still they get into problems when their neighbour-row-in-front reclines the seat.
But Beckxy, you can't be serious expecting us FA's to solve these problems?? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
second thoughts, you probably are. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Wouldn't be the first time that an esteemed passenger demands that I single handedly rebuild the aircraft, unscrew the seats from the floor, romove the armrest with my cardboard nail file, or otherwise fix the problem and fix it right NOW!
But you know what? As much as we would love to fix your problems one and all (yes, inspite of the fact that like cloud nine says, we are NOT there solely to make you flight pleasurable, that is in fact our aim always)we are not magicians!
Beckxy and all you othet travelers who seem to think that we could really do whatever you ask of us as long as we really wanted to, please remember that FA's like yourselves, have no influence whatsoever on the configuration of the AC, nor can we miraculously create extra seats out of thin air. We do realize that the comfort we offer is usually not at all what has been promised you in the sleek add campaigns payed for by our companies. (and that we are no-way nearly as pretty as the average Singapore add-girl either <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> )
But sometimes I wonder if it isn't time for some of you passengers to wake up to the realities of flying?
<ul type="square">[*]Seats in economy class are generally SMALL.[*]A full economy class is NOT a pleasure to be in.[*]An FA can have 50 pax to look after, so if he or she does not run to get you your coffee the very moment you want it, it's usually not out of malicious intent, but because she is trying to feed the other 49![*]ATC slots are NOT the fault of the airline, pilot of flight attendant.[*]The Captain did NOT create the foggy conditions at the destination airport just so he could have the pleasure of going into a holding pattern and use up his extra fuel for kicks.[*]We do NOT enjoy you missing your connection, in fact we worry and fret about exactly that as soon as we hear the dreaded word "delay" coming out of the cockpit.[/list]
Dear passengers, as a rule those of us who work on the aircraft do so because we like trying to make you, our passengers, feel welcome and we enjoy giving you the best servuce we possibly can.
And as for the pilots, you know what? They love their jobs as well. The silly blokes actually try their damnedest to get you there on time every time in the safest possible way!
And if we don't meet your expectations, which we frequently do not, believe me, we M I N D!
So please once in while stop telling us that we are a bunch of stupid trolley tarts who are only in it for the glamour (what frigging glamour? <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> ) or overpaid flyboys looking for totty!
And believe us when we tell you the reason for the delay, or when we explain that we can NOT enlarge your seat!
sorry, rant mode induced by a normal six-day work week, sleeping in 5 different hotels, visiting 12 europeean airports briefly, talking pax through 1 go around, 1 all-off-you-get-off-the-ac-quick-as-you-can-cause-we-have-fuel-gushing-from-the-wing, plus all the other usual everyday cr*p..........