Cancel or Delay
Guest
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Cancel or Delay
SLF
What's your preference when an airline faces severe disruption to their flying program due weather or other events beyond their control, e.g. STN Hijack closure.
Should we cancel your flight right from the start and do our best to re-book you on to other flights/airlines, or would you prefer that we do our best to get you there eventually and you accept the inevitable delay?
[This message has been edited by no sig (edited 13 May 2000).]
What's your preference when an airline faces severe disruption to their flying program due weather or other events beyond their control, e.g. STN Hijack closure.
Should we cancel your flight right from the start and do our best to re-book you on to other flights/airlines, or would you prefer that we do our best to get you there eventually and you accept the inevitable delay?
[This message has been edited by no sig (edited 13 May 2000).]
Guest
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It would depend on why I was flying.
Hijack or weather conditions I would probably wait around for your next flight.
If a Technical fault was the reason for the delay, I would be very happy if you could book me on another airline. (There's quite a bit of this going on lately in and out of Oz).
Hijack or weather conditions I would probably wait around for your next flight.
If a Technical fault was the reason for the delay, I would be very happy if you could book me on another airline. (There's quite a bit of this going on lately in and out of Oz).
Guest
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Siggy (you don't mind if I call you siggy baby)
Well, personally since most of my travel is business and I need to get where I'm going within a reasonable period of time (usually hours not days), I would prefer if you could rebook me on the next available flight, even if that is another carrier.
I understand weather and other problems, but I don't have time to wait for the inevitable. It could cost my company big dollars, especially if several of us are travelling together.
I would also appreciate being told what is happening on a regular basis, either by announcement, or personally. I can hack anything except being kept in the dark, or being superficially soothed. It only adds to my frustration and irritation when I know I'm the object of a snow job.
I will also then co-operate as much as possible; but I get very scratchy and obstinate when I think I'm being patronised by some airline staff. Most of whom do a splendid job, but a few treat us as if we are an obstacle to be overcome, or an interruption to their real work.
After a memorable delay of 13 hours airside at LHR, due to engine failure of the booked flight. Having been told throughout the day that it would only be a short while before a plane was ready for us, which patently was untrue, as I subsequently found out.
I had asked if I could switch to a BA flight that was leaving a couple of hours later, but was told that 'Sorry, your luggage is already loaded onto this flight and we can't get it off in time'. I was prepared to leave my luggage to arrive later. But no joy on that one. I was not as well-travelled then as now, and of course with a young son, had my hands full anyway.
I realise all the safety implications, but I still think that efforts could have been made to get us all on the BA flight, which left half empty.
Additionally, don't do what one of the stewards subsequently did and tell me that his plane was not delayed and I should try to keep my fractious son quiet as he was disturbing the other passengers.
I had asked if I could have some orange juice for him, he was very thirsty and a bit whinny. Like me, he'd been up since 03.00 that morning; the plane we were due to catch to Doha had engine problems and they could not get a replacement. So we were booked on the evening flight. Had to spend the better part of this in the airport lounge. My son was six years old, for pete's sake.
When finally we were loaded onto the plane, which was crowded due to the double load; there did not seem to be enough comestibles for the journey. I did try to get him to sleep, but by then he'd had enough and as I said became a tad fractious. So I explained to the steward that we'd been delayed and then loaded onto the later flight, but I would appreciate if he could get me some games / drawing materials or something which would distract him. And, at the same time, could I please have a couple of extra drinks, so that I did not have to keep ringing.
At that point, he made what I think he saw as a 'clever comment'. Since I didn't want to upset my son anymore, I gritted my teeth and said 'Get me some orange juice or get me someone more able to deal with pax'.
The point being, and admittedly this was some years ago, that I was being treated as a nuisance. Someone to be placated, but also someone who was interferring with operational effectiveness.
Lastly, and I know I've made this point previously in another post. I do not want to be called from the Lounge or elsewhere to the Gate; with the announcement that boarding has commenced. And upon arrival at said gate find that it is not even open. Please do not tell me it's because you need to have all the pax rounded up and ready to board, after a few times of this, it defeats the object. Regular pax will not arrive at said time, because they know it will not open for at least another 15 mins and we do not like standing in a small area, queueing or otherwise. I queue enough as it is when travelling. eg; queue on M1 / M25; queue to check in; queue for immigration and security aspects (both ends); queue for alternative currency; queue on and off the aircraft; queue for baggage (unless on a two dayer - which means I have hand baggage); queue for taxis. Guess you get the picture.
My time is just as valuable as yours and you are not doing me a favour by allowing me to fly with you chaps.
Other than that, great job guys and gals. Mostly I love air travel and the convenience. And usually, I am met with courtesy, efficiency and pleasantries. It's just the odd one upsets the whole picture. It also is self-defeating, because it makes me obdurate and unreasonable, so makes your job that much more difficult.
Well, personally since most of my travel is business and I need to get where I'm going within a reasonable period of time (usually hours not days), I would prefer if you could rebook me on the next available flight, even if that is another carrier.
I understand weather and other problems, but I don't have time to wait for the inevitable. It could cost my company big dollars, especially if several of us are travelling together.
I would also appreciate being told what is happening on a regular basis, either by announcement, or personally. I can hack anything except being kept in the dark, or being superficially soothed. It only adds to my frustration and irritation when I know I'm the object of a snow job.
I will also then co-operate as much as possible; but I get very scratchy and obstinate when I think I'm being patronised by some airline staff. Most of whom do a splendid job, but a few treat us as if we are an obstacle to be overcome, or an interruption to their real work.
After a memorable delay of 13 hours airside at LHR, due to engine failure of the booked flight. Having been told throughout the day that it would only be a short while before a plane was ready for us, which patently was untrue, as I subsequently found out.
I had asked if I could switch to a BA flight that was leaving a couple of hours later, but was told that 'Sorry, your luggage is already loaded onto this flight and we can't get it off in time'. I was prepared to leave my luggage to arrive later. But no joy on that one. I was not as well-travelled then as now, and of course with a young son, had my hands full anyway.
I realise all the safety implications, but I still think that efforts could have been made to get us all on the BA flight, which left half empty.
Additionally, don't do what one of the stewards subsequently did and tell me that his plane was not delayed and I should try to keep my fractious son quiet as he was disturbing the other passengers.
I had asked if I could have some orange juice for him, he was very thirsty and a bit whinny. Like me, he'd been up since 03.00 that morning; the plane we were due to catch to Doha had engine problems and they could not get a replacement. So we were booked on the evening flight. Had to spend the better part of this in the airport lounge. My son was six years old, for pete's sake.
When finally we were loaded onto the plane, which was crowded due to the double load; there did not seem to be enough comestibles for the journey. I did try to get him to sleep, but by then he'd had enough and as I said became a tad fractious. So I explained to the steward that we'd been delayed and then loaded onto the later flight, but I would appreciate if he could get me some games / drawing materials or something which would distract him. And, at the same time, could I please have a couple of extra drinks, so that I did not have to keep ringing.
At that point, he made what I think he saw as a 'clever comment'. Since I didn't want to upset my son anymore, I gritted my teeth and said 'Get me some orange juice or get me someone more able to deal with pax'.
The point being, and admittedly this was some years ago, that I was being treated as a nuisance. Someone to be placated, but also someone who was interferring with operational effectiveness.
Lastly, and I know I've made this point previously in another post. I do not want to be called from the Lounge or elsewhere to the Gate; with the announcement that boarding has commenced. And upon arrival at said gate find that it is not even open. Please do not tell me it's because you need to have all the pax rounded up and ready to board, after a few times of this, it defeats the object. Regular pax will not arrive at said time, because they know it will not open for at least another 15 mins and we do not like standing in a small area, queueing or otherwise. I queue enough as it is when travelling. eg; queue on M1 / M25; queue to check in; queue for immigration and security aspects (both ends); queue for alternative currency; queue on and off the aircraft; queue for baggage (unless on a two dayer - which means I have hand baggage); queue for taxis. Guess you get the picture.
My time is just as valuable as yours and you are not doing me a favour by allowing me to fly with you chaps.
Other than that, great job guys and gals. Mostly I love air travel and the convenience. And usually, I am met with courtesy, efficiency and pleasantries. It's just the odd one upsets the whole picture. It also is self-defeating, because it makes me obdurate and unreasonable, so makes your job that much more difficult.
Guest
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Cancel - but without that annoying "oh, that'll be an extra umpteen quid". Why? Whatever the answer is, it always sounds to me like "because we've got you over a barrel, mate".
Pet hate: announcing a 5 hour delay, in half-hour installments. OK, anyone can get it wrong, and a minor problem does occasionally turn into a major problem. But it always seems to me that the real reason for doing this is to stop people asking for their luggage back off the plane so they can take the train instead. Or another plane.
It might just be my imagination, but if the flight is the only one of the week, the 14-hour delay is announced all in one; but if it's a short-haul, it's announced half-hour by half-hour.
Referring back to a thread in R&N, this inclines one to think - "only half an hour - let's have another beer". Repeat ten times, and you have incipient air-rage. Let the pax take le shuttle, or the competitor, or whatever, and they'll be home quicker, safer, and more sober. And they might fly with you again.
[This message has been edited by justapax (edited 17 May 2000).]
Pet hate: announcing a 5 hour delay, in half-hour installments. OK, anyone can get it wrong, and a minor problem does occasionally turn into a major problem. But it always seems to me that the real reason for doing this is to stop people asking for their luggage back off the plane so they can take the train instead. Or another plane.
It might just be my imagination, but if the flight is the only one of the week, the 14-hour delay is announced all in one; but if it's a short-haul, it's announced half-hour by half-hour.
Referring back to a thread in R&N, this inclines one to think - "only half an hour - let's have another beer". Repeat ten times, and you have incipient air-rage. Let the pax take le shuttle, or the competitor, or whatever, and they'll be home quicker, safer, and more sober. And they might fly with you again.
[This message has been edited by justapax (edited 17 May 2000).]
Guest
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Velvet Strokes I have noticed that you have indeed mentioned a couple of times now that you do not appreciate being called to the gate too early for boarding.
You obviously haven't had too many flights delayed whilst staff endeavour to locate and offload luggage because some stupid pax hasn't turned up for boarding!!
Or you haven't obviously ran around a busy airport trying to locate same stupid pax who fails to show at the gate after numerous 'personal' announcements requesting his/her presence at the gate!
You obviously haven't had too many flights delayed whilst staff endeavour to locate and offload luggage because some stupid pax hasn't turned up for boarding!!
Or you haven't obviously ran around a busy airport trying to locate same stupid pax who fails to show at the gate after numerous 'personal' announcements requesting his/her presence at the gate!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks all, and please I would welcome others views.
You see, dispite what it may appear like, for the most part we airline operational types really do want to get you away safely and on time. I regret however, It is not always possible. The other problem we face is that there will occasions when we don't accurately know when we can get your flight away, this means the most we can do is take a good guess based on the met man's forecast or call it an indefinite delay. Foggy mornings waiting for the weather to clear or lift above our take off or landing minimums. Waiting for engineers to pronounce their prognosis for a sick airplane. As much as we wish we had spare aircraft to fill the gap in our schedule - few airlines can afford that.
I do agree that airport staff can be caustic at times, equally, our customers also at times fail to help themselves by turning up late at the gate with too much handbaggage etc. Further, we are constrained by DETR aviation security regulations, so when that passenger who hasn't turned is identified we then have to find his baggage on a, by then , loaded aircraft and take it off - for your safety.
But please continue the debate as it all good stuff and I'm listening carefully.
Thanks
You see, dispite what it may appear like, for the most part we airline operational types really do want to get you away safely and on time. I regret however, It is not always possible. The other problem we face is that there will occasions when we don't accurately know when we can get your flight away, this means the most we can do is take a good guess based on the met man's forecast or call it an indefinite delay. Foggy mornings waiting for the weather to clear or lift above our take off or landing minimums. Waiting for engineers to pronounce their prognosis for a sick airplane. As much as we wish we had spare aircraft to fill the gap in our schedule - few airlines can afford that.
I do agree that airport staff can be caustic at times, equally, our customers also at times fail to help themselves by turning up late at the gate with too much handbaggage etc. Further, we are constrained by DETR aviation security regulations, so when that passenger who hasn't turned is identified we then have to find his baggage on a, by then , loaded aircraft and take it off - for your safety.
But please continue the debate as it all good stuff and I'm listening carefully.
Thanks
Guest
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no sig--
It depends. When I'm at an airport I'd like to be somewhere else as soon as possible, so rebooking is preferable. There are times when I'll forgo that hassle and wait for the intended flight, but they're in the minority. Depends on the strictness of my timetable that day, more than anything else, but nobody will know that unless they ask.
Whatever -- being told what's happening and why makes a huge difference, even if nobody's sure when things will be sorted out. And it would be very helpful to get Internet access at the terminal to fire off some emails saying what was going on; time zones mean you can't always call ahead.
R
It depends. When I'm at an airport I'd like to be somewhere else as soon as possible, so rebooking is preferable. There are times when I'll forgo that hassle and wait for the intended flight, but they're in the minority. Depends on the strictness of my timetable that day, more than anything else, but nobody will know that unless they ask.
Whatever -- being told what's happening and why makes a huge difference, even if nobody's sure when things will be sorted out. And it would be very helpful to get Internet access at the terminal to fire off some emails saying what was going on; time zones mean you can't always call ahead.
R
Guest
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Whether you prefer the cancel and re-book option or to wait around in the hope that the delay won't be too long really depends on why you're travelling and what deadlines you have to meet.
As others on this thread have said, the crucial thing is information. If you can tell us what's happening as soon as you know, and give us an honest estimate of the delay, then we're going to be a whole lot happier. The worst thing is when I feel I'm being fobbed off, or that the person giving me the information doesn't actually know what's going on, but is trying to pretend that they do. If you don't know what the hell's going on, then TELL us! We can accept that more easily than the feeling that we're not getting the whole story.
On the other point, while I agree that being asked to turn up at the gate only to queue for ages to board is irritating, I can't BELIEVE the number of people who turn up late and then get on the plane looking like they think it's funny. How arrogant/selfish do you have to be to keep, say, 300 people waiting and maybe miss a take off slot because you wanted to spend a bit longer in the bar??
As others on this thread have said, the crucial thing is information. If you can tell us what's happening as soon as you know, and give us an honest estimate of the delay, then we're going to be a whole lot happier. The worst thing is when I feel I'm being fobbed off, or that the person giving me the information doesn't actually know what's going on, but is trying to pretend that they do. If you don't know what the hell's going on, then TELL us! We can accept that more easily than the feeling that we're not getting the whole story.
On the other point, while I agree that being asked to turn up at the gate only to queue for ages to board is irritating, I can't BELIEVE the number of people who turn up late and then get on the plane looking like they think it's funny. How arrogant/selfish do you have to be to keep, say, 300 people waiting and maybe miss a take off slot because you wanted to spend a bit longer in the bar??
Guest
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If the plane's going to have to go from A to B anyway (due to having pax waiting for the B to A sector) then why not offer a transfer to another flight for pax who want to. Those who really prefer your airline over another operator can opt to delay if they're not in a hurry.
(or is that too simplistic?)
(or is that too simplistic?)
Guest
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ExSimGuy
Not simplistic at all, most airlines will offer transfers to other flights on their network, indeed also on others. Problem comes when the next flight is full and little opportunity to transfer customers to flights in a reasonable time frame.
Not simplistic at all, most airlines will offer transfers to other flights on their network, indeed also on others. Problem comes when the next flight is full and little opportunity to transfer customers to flights in a reasonable time frame.
Guest
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Damsel
I made the point again, because it is one of the more irritating issues I have when travelling by air. Surely, what I'm asking for is not unreasonable, that airline staff do not make me compensate for a few idiots. I make a previous point, and apologise if this is uncomfortable - ' you are not doing me a favour by allowing me to fly with your airline'.
I have heard your argument before from airline staff; my response - does it make the pax turn up any quicker, or stop you running around the airport, if you have all the other passengers waiting at the Gate before it opens.
I have been delayed on several occasions by passengers either turning up late or going missing and having luggage off-loaded. In common with I'd Rather, I'm less than impressed by those pax who think it amusing to arrive late with no good reason and smirk at the rest of us as they board.
I understand your frustrations, I share them and I am even less pleased that yourselves by delays. As I also stated this can cause my company lots of dosh. It also means that I lose valuable time, and I have to work during my 'supposedly leisure' time to catch up. I use the time in the lounge productively; I cannot use the time spent in a queue at the Gate; It is both wasted and irritating if it appears unnecessary.
One last point, have you thought that maybe some of those passengers thought that they had more time, because previously they had turned up and waited at a closed gate. Just a thought. I know that after the umpteenth time it happened to me, I'm very tempted now just to wait until the last call before making my way to the gate and boarding. This would have the added advantage that I don't have to wait in the aisle, while some dozo in front spends 5 mins filling the overhead locker with half his worldly goods.
One final point, in common with the others in this thread, the most important thing is communication. Not necessarily that you pass on information, but that you ensure we are not ignored or treated as if we are some kind of problem to be dealt with. Do not overwhelm us with useless information, but keep us informed effectively and most of us will co-operate.
[This message has been edited by VelvetStrokes (edited 21 May 2000).]
I made the point again, because it is one of the more irritating issues I have when travelling by air. Surely, what I'm asking for is not unreasonable, that airline staff do not make me compensate for a few idiots. I make a previous point, and apologise if this is uncomfortable - ' you are not doing me a favour by allowing me to fly with your airline'.
I have heard your argument before from airline staff; my response - does it make the pax turn up any quicker, or stop you running around the airport, if you have all the other passengers waiting at the Gate before it opens.
I have been delayed on several occasions by passengers either turning up late or going missing and having luggage off-loaded. In common with I'd Rather, I'm less than impressed by those pax who think it amusing to arrive late with no good reason and smirk at the rest of us as they board.
I understand your frustrations, I share them and I am even less pleased that yourselves by delays. As I also stated this can cause my company lots of dosh. It also means that I lose valuable time, and I have to work during my 'supposedly leisure' time to catch up. I use the time in the lounge productively; I cannot use the time spent in a queue at the Gate; It is both wasted and irritating if it appears unnecessary.
One last point, have you thought that maybe some of those passengers thought that they had more time, because previously they had turned up and waited at a closed gate. Just a thought. I know that after the umpteenth time it happened to me, I'm very tempted now just to wait until the last call before making my way to the gate and boarding. This would have the added advantage that I don't have to wait in the aisle, while some dozo in front spends 5 mins filling the overhead locker with half his worldly goods.
One final point, in common with the others in this thread, the most important thing is communication. Not necessarily that you pass on information, but that you ensure we are not ignored or treated as if we are some kind of problem to be dealt with. Do not overwhelm us with useless information, but keep us informed effectively and most of us will co-operate.
[This message has been edited by VelvetStrokes (edited 21 May 2000).]
Guest
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On being late
There is a pernicious reason for the problem you describe.
I don't know about other airlines, but at least Lufthansa *used* to operate a scheme by which for a ridiculous sum (thousands of DM a year, it might even have been tens of thousands) you could join a club, very exclusive, which mean you would never miss a LH flight.
The boss of a company I represented used to enjoy keeping me at meetings until the last minute, with the queue to join the autobahn to the airport visibly (out of his window) growing by the minute. Finally he would finish the meeting and let me out. I always caught the plane, regardless of how long it took me to get to their airport. Sometimes I was an hour late for the (two hour) flight.
He just did it to show his power, and put me under pressure; a legitimate business tactic.
He used to have the meetings in the evening, before the last flight. The town is noted for its trade fairs, which meant that normally hotel rooms were not to be had for love nor money. If you didn't catch that flight, you'd be sleeping on a chair at the airport.
However, it wasn't just me that he did this with; after a while my colleagues all had it sussed, and were no longer as pressurised. Not much satisfaction for the other pax who sat and fumed and missed connections from this northern German airport so this guy could put pressure on his overseas representatives.
I hope that schemes like this have now been stopped. Doubtless a few fat-cats thought it the ultimate way to show their superiority over the plebs ("my business meeting is more important than your missed connection"), but surely the missed slots and general grief in the air must have been prejudicial to air safety. Surely also the wasted fuel alone must have cost Lufthansa more than the proceeds from the sale of these special-privilege cards.
So I guess they were doing it to win the goodwill of key decision-makers. E.g., their shareholders. And people controlling organisations with huge travel budgets, which then got spent on LH rather than their competitors. Whatever the reason, I hope this practice is no more.
There is a pernicious reason for the problem you describe.
I don't know about other airlines, but at least Lufthansa *used* to operate a scheme by which for a ridiculous sum (thousands of DM a year, it might even have been tens of thousands) you could join a club, very exclusive, which mean you would never miss a LH flight.
The boss of a company I represented used to enjoy keeping me at meetings until the last minute, with the queue to join the autobahn to the airport visibly (out of his window) growing by the minute. Finally he would finish the meeting and let me out. I always caught the plane, regardless of how long it took me to get to their airport. Sometimes I was an hour late for the (two hour) flight.
He just did it to show his power, and put me under pressure; a legitimate business tactic.
He used to have the meetings in the evening, before the last flight. The town is noted for its trade fairs, which meant that normally hotel rooms were not to be had for love nor money. If you didn't catch that flight, you'd be sleeping on a chair at the airport.
However, it wasn't just me that he did this with; after a while my colleagues all had it sussed, and were no longer as pressurised. Not much satisfaction for the other pax who sat and fumed and missed connections from this northern German airport so this guy could put pressure on his overseas representatives.
I hope that schemes like this have now been stopped. Doubtless a few fat-cats thought it the ultimate way to show their superiority over the plebs ("my business meeting is more important than your missed connection"), but surely the missed slots and general grief in the air must have been prejudicial to air safety. Surely also the wasted fuel alone must have cost Lufthansa more than the proceeds from the sale of these special-privilege cards.
So I guess they were doing it to win the goodwill of key decision-makers. E.g., their shareholders. And people controlling organisations with huge travel budgets, which then got spent on LH rather than their competitors. Whatever the reason, I hope this practice is no more.
