Passengers taken ill flight Newark to LHR
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Roadster280 - I've noticed this on 777s before myself. The problem is that as you don't have any of the old fashioned personal vents to direct 'fresh' air on you, there is no way to cool yourself down.
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FAs and pax feeling dizzy and people fainting on the 777 was a well known problem for many airlines when the aircraft was first introduced.
This article gives some info, but fainting was much more widespread among passengers than mentioned here: Crew Members Fault Air Quality on 777's
No idea what happened on this flight, but in a cabin where the ´airquality´ is already borderline, some malfunction/DG fumes incident adversely affecting the cabin air can cause a bigger problem than it would cause in say a 747.
Roadster, some people, perhaps due to a suspicious nature coupled with a lack of knowledge, like to ascribe ulterior motives to others.
If you are like that, don´t read the following.
The heating system of the 777 is not that good. The heat is distributed very unevenly, and even the retrofitted modifications that were supposed to improve the system haven´t helped very much.
Simply put, there are a number of ´cold traps´ in a 777 cabin, easily discernible when you walk down the aisle. Sections, a couple of rows each, have really really cold air coming down over them, while the rest of the aircraft is comfy.
So the CC are faced with a continuous balancing act. Trying to keep the pax in the ´cold rows´ from freezing and spending 8-12 hours in shivering misery, while at the same trying to avoid overheating the rest of the pax.
It is an impossible situation, whatever CC do there will always be pax who are uncomfortable.
We try though, Lord knows we try.
Another aspect is that during night flights, people´s metabolism slows down which lowers their body temp. So pax ask for the heat to be turned up.
A third aspect is that Asian pax are ALWAYS cold and require a significantly higher cabin temp than Western/African pax. So if you as a Westerner are on a flight with mainly Asian pax, you will be hot.
Last but not least, as pointed out already by Donkey, the lack of individual airvents is no doubt cheaper but detracts from pax comfort.
As every long haul flight attendant knows, there are flights where most pax will sleep most of the flight, and there are flights where most pax will be awake for most of the flight.
It´s dependent on departure time, outside light/dark and direction of time-zone crossing.
Every flight has its own fixed pattern.
It never varies.
No matter what we do with the lights, the blinds or the heating.
This article gives some info, but fainting was much more widespread among passengers than mentioned here: Crew Members Fault Air Quality on 777's
No idea what happened on this flight, but in a cabin where the ´airquality´ is already borderline, some malfunction/DG fumes incident adversely affecting the cabin air can cause a bigger problem than it would cause in say a 747.
Might it just be CC being overenthusiastic with the heat controls? In the past, many is the time I have sat in my seat sweating after the meal phase because the heat has been cranked up (presumably to aid in sending the SLF to sleep?).
If you are like that, don´t read the following.
The heating system of the 777 is not that good. The heat is distributed very unevenly, and even the retrofitted modifications that were supposed to improve the system haven´t helped very much.
Simply put, there are a number of ´cold traps´ in a 777 cabin, easily discernible when you walk down the aisle. Sections, a couple of rows each, have really really cold air coming down over them, while the rest of the aircraft is comfy.
So the CC are faced with a continuous balancing act. Trying to keep the pax in the ´cold rows´ from freezing and spending 8-12 hours in shivering misery, while at the same trying to avoid overheating the rest of the pax.
It is an impossible situation, whatever CC do there will always be pax who are uncomfortable.
We try though, Lord knows we try.
Another aspect is that during night flights, people´s metabolism slows down which lowers their body temp. So pax ask for the heat to be turned up.
A third aspect is that Asian pax are ALWAYS cold and require a significantly higher cabin temp than Western/African pax. So if you as a Westerner are on a flight with mainly Asian pax, you will be hot.
Last but not least, as pointed out already by Donkey, the lack of individual airvents is no doubt cheaper but detracts from pax comfort.
As every long haul flight attendant knows, there are flights where most pax will sleep most of the flight, and there are flights where most pax will be awake for most of the flight.
It´s dependent on departure time, outside light/dark and direction of time-zone crossing.
Every flight has its own fixed pattern.
It never varies.
No matter what we do with the lights, the blinds or the heating.
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Rumour here is that it was caused by Dry Ice and that a loader also collapsed after he opened the cargo door. If true must have been quite high consentrations.
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A picture is worth a 1000 words.
Medical alert after series of passengers mysteriously faint mid-flight on their way to Britain | Mail Online
Aerotoxic Assiociation - Support for sufferers of Aerotoxic Syndrome for more.
A picture is worth a 1000 words....
DB
Aerotoxic Assiociation - Support for sufferers of Aerotoxic Syndrome for more.
A picture is worth a 1000 words....
DB
Paxing All Over The World
Thanks for the link DB In the opening paragraph the Daily Mail goes for the more dramatic
and by the fourth paragraph have downgraded this to
The interesting info is that the people were seated in varying parts of Y and not together. They also hypothesise that the pax may have had a stomach bug.
If it was toxic air, then no trace would be found anyway, due to the elapsed time although no detail was given as to when in the flight the pax felt poorly.
Six people collapsed ...
... who complained of feeling 'light-headed and faint.
If it was toxic air, then no trace would be found anyway, due to the elapsed time although no detail was given as to when in the flight the pax felt poorly.
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Toxic air detectors?
I suppose if anybody really wanted to prove toxic air fumes - the airlines would fit toxic air detectors instead of relying on the Mk 1 human nose.
Maybe they don't want to detect them!
Incidentally, does anybody know the safe exposure limit of such a detector -for pregnant mothers?
DB
Maybe they don't want to detect them!
Incidentally, does anybody know the safe exposure limit of such a detector -for pregnant mothers?
DB
I cannot comment re those who allege lasting harm caused by a certain little 4 jet which has a 'toxic air' reputation; this was not one of those.
I and many others I know have over forty years and many thousands of hours as mil and civil pilots and have never suffered from toxic air inhallation on a passenger aircraft.
Juud has a point which I noticed on my last pax trip EWR>LHR (why not just leave the others feeling cold? - they can always wrap up - you wouldn't want to see Basil down to his boxers trying to keep cool
)
For passengers reading this, when starting engines or passing downwind of another aircraft, it is common to smell ingested paraffin fumes.
For those who have never worked in industry with its smells and fumes it may be worrying but it's normal - unless, of course, your worst fears are realised and the engine really is on fire
I and many others I know have over forty years and many thousands of hours as mil and civil pilots and have never suffered from toxic air inhallation on a passenger aircraft.
Juud has a point which I noticed on my last pax trip EWR>LHR (why not just leave the others feeling cold? - they can always wrap up - you wouldn't want to see Basil down to his boxers trying to keep cool
)For passengers reading this, when starting engines or passing downwind of another aircraft, it is common to smell ingested paraffin fumes.
For those who have never worked in industry with its smells and fumes it may be worrying but it's normal - unless, of course, your worst fears are realised and the engine really is on fire
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Aerotoxic Syndrome
Basil. It's good to know that you and many you know have not suffered the effects of contaminated bleed air. My mate George has been smoking 60 cigarettes a day for 40 years and is OK, so by the same logic smoking isn't bad for you. The point is not everyone is affected the same, people fly different aircraft types, some with worse air quality problems than others, or they may take just one flight and experience a fume event. Because you're OK, it doesn't mean there is no problem. Like you I know loads of people who have been flying for years and are fit. I also know dozens who are seriously ill and have been specifically diagnosed with breathing toxic fumes (Aerotoxic Syndrome). A survey by GCAQE has found HUNDREDS of ex-146 pilots with a clear pattern of neurological disease, brain tumours and death. As these people leave the aviation scene, they are forgotten about.
Anyone in any doubt, do the research, look at the evidence from both sides: the government who say there's "no evidence" of a problem, and organisations like the Aerotoxic Association who say otherwise. If you look at the issue for five minutes, you may conclude the government are doing their best to look into the issue. If you spend more time on it, as you dig deeper, the extent of the problem will become apparent, as well as the lengths they are going to to cover it up. I've been researching for two years, am I appalled by the misery that has been caused to so many peoples' lives.
Engine oil contains tricresyl phosphate, a potent neurotoxin, it does get into bleed air, bleed air enters the cabin unfiltered ... go figure!
Anyone in any doubt, do the research, look at the evidence from both sides: the government who say there's "no evidence" of a problem, and organisations like the Aerotoxic Association who say otherwise. If you look at the issue for five minutes, you may conclude the government are doing their best to look into the issue. If you spend more time on it, as you dig deeper, the extent of the problem will become apparent, as well as the lengths they are going to to cover it up. I've been researching for two years, am I appalled by the misery that has been caused to so many peoples' lives.
Engine oil contains tricresyl phosphate, a potent neurotoxin, it does get into bleed air, bleed air enters the cabin unfiltered ... go figure!
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Basil - how would you know?
Basil,
If I could have a sample of your blood - I could tell you whether you have been exposed to toxic chemicals - it is not rocket science.
I have many mates who claimed that they hadn't been affected either, now they are losing kidneys, immunity systems and their health and being told by doctors it is all caused by exposure to oil fumes.
They now want help - it's a bit late.
Toxic cabin air appeal: has your health been affected? - Learmount
So Basil why don't you have your blood checked and see what is ahead for you? You might be in for a nasty shock.
I wish you well sir, but please respect the expert doctors' detailed findings....
http://www.aerotoxic.org/download/im...s%20puzzle.jpg
...and when colleagues say they feel awful - they feel.....awful.
DB
If I could have a sample of your blood - I could tell you whether you have been exposed to toxic chemicals - it is not rocket science.
I have many mates who claimed that they hadn't been affected either, now they are losing kidneys, immunity systems and their health and being told by doctors it is all caused by exposure to oil fumes.
They now want help - it's a bit late.
Toxic cabin air appeal: has your health been affected? - Learmount
So Basil why don't you have your blood checked and see what is ahead for you? You might be in for a nasty shock.
I wish you well sir, but please respect the expert doctors' detailed findings....
http://www.aerotoxic.org/download/im...s%20puzzle.jpg
...and when colleagues say they feel awful - they feel.....awful.
DB
Two points:
1. I specifically excluded the 146.
2. Born in an industrial area and following a career in engineering, artillery discharge, ships' engine rooms, military and civil aviation and months spent in HK with a northerly wind I have no douby that I've ingested a range of toxins, both inadvertently and intentionally
I have had one episode of unexplained discomfort. When I mentioned a rude comment by one of my kids the doc said "Oh, yes, I've checked for all those ailments too." Never achieved a diagnosis and the symptoms eventually subsided so perhaps that was one of your 'toxic syndrome' reactions.
Yes, but they disappeared after I sobered up 
Sorry, just couldn't resist.
1. I specifically excluded the 146.
2. Born in an industrial area and following a career in engineering, artillery discharge, ships' engine rooms, military and civil aviation and months spent in HK with a northerly wind I have no douby that I've ingested a range of toxins, both inadvertently and intentionally
I have had one episode of unexplained discomfort. When I mentioned a rude comment by one of my kids the doc said "Oh, yes, I've checked for all those ailments too." Never achieved a diagnosis and the symptoms eventually subsided so perhaps that was one of your 'toxic syndrome' reactions.
Have you flown and then developed any of the following unexplainable symptoms?
Constant fatigue you can’t shake off, dizziness, can’t think straight, trouble concentrating, memory problems, speech problems, spaced out, not feeling yourself, mood swings, speech problems, breathing difficulties ...
Constant fatigue you can’t shake off, dizziness, can’t think straight, trouble concentrating, memory problems, speech problems, spaced out, not feeling yourself, mood swings, speech problems, breathing difficulties ...
Sorry, just couldn't resist.
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I always love how you lot assume that it was the "cabin crew" overreacting!
All the cabin crew do is deal with the patient, call Medlink and go from there! If it was really considered serious there and then Im sure the Captain may have elected to divert! If anything I would assume that Port Health stuck their finger in and hence it all turned out rather dramatic!!!!
All the cabin crew do is deal with the patient, call Medlink and go from there! If it was really considered serious there and then Im sure the Captain may have elected to divert! If anything I would assume that Port Health stuck their finger in and hence it all turned out rather dramatic!!!!
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Toxic Free Airlines would like to speak to any passengers (or crew) who were on the flight.
