BA to charge for seat selection
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BA needs to be shut down and asset stripped and then LHR can be released for some properly run and resourced airlines to provide a decent service to us long abused passengers. As such airlines are in short supply at the moment BAA can use this lack of demand to rebuild LHR and turn it into something approaching an airport and which might attract such well run airlines. Why is such a irrelevant and out of date dinosaur like BA being allowed to have a strangle hold on what we are constantly told is a National Asset? Only problem with that course of action is finding BA's assets after their pension fund has had all the available cash. BA is a complete basket case and no longer deserves support.
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Removing seats
Removing rows of seats to increase pitch is fairly complicated. Certain rows have fixed positions (first, last, bulkheads, emergency exits, etc), so removing 1 row (with a pitch of 31") from a section of 15 rows will increase pitch by 2" on average. However if there are only 8 rows in a different section of the plane they will have to stay at 31" or jump to 35". Invariably the pitch is not consistent throughout a plane.
BUT removing the seats can benefit the airline. Marketing promotes the new 34" pitch (compared to the old 31"), but then charges 5-10% more and, provided there is sufficient demand, the airline can carry extra cargo at a higher rate/kg than the seats gave them.
BUT removing the seats can benefit the airline. Marketing promotes the new 34" pitch (compared to the old 31"), but then charges 5-10% more and, provided there is sufficient demand, the airline can carry extra cargo at a higher rate/kg than the seats gave them.
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BA needs to be shut down and asset stripped
Lots of people don't like BA and choose to fly with someone else, I fly with them on occasion and whilst they could be way better, I am conscious that I paying WAY less than I used in real terms to when I buy my usual economy advance.
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Bit strong Mr O'Riley.
The good thing is we all have a choice who we fly with and some even if we fly at all. Lets not forget this. There are a few airlines who I refuse to use because I can.
Mrs J turned up at LHR yesterday having checked in on line to be told she had been moved out of her beloved 62K, but not to worry she was moved to 3A. Well done BA.
If you want to see how a good (in my opinion) loco airline should be, travel Southwest.
Jarvy
The good thing is we all have a choice who we fly with and some even if we fly at all. Lets not forget this. There are a few airlines who I refuse to use because I can.
Mrs J turned up at LHR yesterday having checked in on line to be told she had been moved out of her beloved 62K, but not to worry she was moved to 3A. Well done BA.
If you want to see how a good (in my opinion) loco airline should be, travel Southwest.
Jarvy
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You're advocating that a private firm can be closed down and shareholders done over plus thousands of staff thrown on the dole?
For example look at the history of GEC and the subsequent decoupling of telent plc and the sale of other parts of the business to Ericsson.
I don't see why anyone should take offence at Scumbag's post, as
- the shareholders would be paid for their assets
- the employees have the opportunity to transfer under TUPE, where the business are sold on a 'going concern' basis
If BA continues to turn in business results like the recent ones, this may become a reality.
However, I hope not, what would be good for all of us is for BA to sort out it's internal problems and be a strong player, thus creating competition in the market.
It has long been a puzzle to me why I can book an internal US flight with United, choose the seat BEFORE I commit to it AND be offered an upgrade to Economy plus with 6 inches more legroom for 50 bucks where BA won't even let me choose the seat until 24 hrs before the flight (which as PAXboy says can be very inconveniently timed).
Last time I tried on a BA flight to Toronto last month and I was poised with a lap top and a 3G USB modem in a car park in Newport Pagnell at noon when on line check in opened only to find that there were no seats to select. They were ALL taken already. So much for choice. I have NEVER managed to select an exit row.
In the past I have selected seats right down the back only to find the aeroplane configured diffeerently to the seating plan and instead of the 2 seat row .. we are jammed into a 3 seat row.
They are just limiting the number of choices I have. I want to have certainty before I fly, not a last second scramble to see where I am sat and get frustrated because I can't change it. The US carriers are far more user friendly in this respect. Qatar far worse becuaee even if you select a seat online .. generally thay have changed it back to suit them by the time you get to the airport so the free for all starts all over again
My larger overall gripe with the sorts of journeys I take (Middle East to UK to USA, across USA and back to ME) is that everything is reduced to the lowest denominator and everybody has different rules, Qatar's 7kg hand baggage rule, ME to Europe single suitcae rule, USA/Canada internal flights allow 2 cases but United charge 40 bucks to check them in (Air Canade don't) etc. UK has the most restrictive hand luggae sizes by far (indeed the US carriers warn that if you are using LHR be aware their hand luggage allowances are far lower than the US and you may find you can take it as hand luggage but not bring it back !!!)
Oh for a reasonably level playing field
Last time I tried on a BA flight to Toronto last month and I was poised with a lap top and a 3G USB modem in a car park in Newport Pagnell at noon when on line check in opened only to find that there were no seats to select. They were ALL taken already. So much for choice. I have NEVER managed to select an exit row.
In the past I have selected seats right down the back only to find the aeroplane configured diffeerently to the seating plan and instead of the 2 seat row .. we are jammed into a 3 seat row.
They are just limiting the number of choices I have. I want to have certainty before I fly, not a last second scramble to see where I am sat and get frustrated because I can't change it. The US carriers are far more user friendly in this respect. Qatar far worse becuaee even if you select a seat online .. generally thay have changed it back to suit them by the time you get to the airport so the free for all starts all over again
My larger overall gripe with the sorts of journeys I take (Middle East to UK to USA, across USA and back to ME) is that everything is reduced to the lowest denominator and everybody has different rules, Qatar's 7kg hand baggage rule, ME to Europe single suitcae rule, USA/Canada internal flights allow 2 cases but United charge 40 bucks to check them in (Air Canade don't) etc. UK has the most restrictive hand luggae sizes by far (indeed the US carriers warn that if you are using LHR be aware their hand luggage allowances are far lower than the US and you may find you can take it as hand luggage but not bring it back !!!)
Oh for a reasonably level playing field
Last edited by Dave Gittins; 29th Sep 2009 at 04:19.
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Previously Booked and Out of Luck
I'm a bit confused. Me and the Mr Fyre have three trips coming up on BA, one in mid-October, then a trip in November and another in December. BA have replied to my inquiry about seat selection by saying we're out of luck as far as getting a seat assigned - we have to wait until 24 hours before flight departure.
So, for our advance planning and loyalty, we now get to wait in line behind those who book on 7 October and beyond.
Is there anyone from BA out there who can tell us why there were no provisions made for previously booked customers?
On a slightly strange note, the BA customer service rep who wrote to me stated:
So, for our advance planning and loyalty, we now get to wait in line behind those who book on 7 October and beyond.
Is there anyone from BA out there who can tell us why there were no provisions made for previously booked customers?
On a slightly strange note, the BA customer service rep who wrote to me stated:
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the charge for selecting your seat on your upcoming flights. I know how disappointing it is."
For a policy that is being touted as "an enhanced seating policy," their choice of phrasing in the note sounds a bit odd to me.
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Look. It's all very simple really: Airfares have been getting cheaper and cheaper and the service worse and worse for years now. The profit margins just continue to shrink to todays point where the worlds' airlines are losing 1 Billion dollars a month!!
The flying public have been led to believe that flying is cheap transport. It isn't. It is very very expensive and everything to do with aviation comes with telephone number prices.
Selling 8 hour trans-atlantic flights at £299 including 2 meals and around £80 in taxes built into the fare with sky high fuel costs, how much profit do you imagine is in there? This despite paying so much less for all the overheads, crews etc.
The whole industry runs at a miniscule profit so when times go bad they lose massive amounts of cash. As WW says: "It's all about survival."
The fact is that if you want to maintain all the benefits that existed 15 years ago you have to pay a lot more to start with for the privilage of traveling.
I, for one would love to see it go back to those days!
The flying public have been led to believe that flying is cheap transport. It isn't. It is very very expensive and everything to do with aviation comes with telephone number prices.
Selling 8 hour trans-atlantic flights at £299 including 2 meals and around £80 in taxes built into the fare with sky high fuel costs, how much profit do you imagine is in there? This despite paying so much less for all the overheads, crews etc.
The whole industry runs at a miniscule profit so when times go bad they lose massive amounts of cash. As WW says: "It's all about survival."
The fact is that if you want to maintain all the benefits that existed 15 years ago you have to pay a lot more to start with for the privilage of traveling.
I, for one would love to see it go back to those days!
Paxing All Over The World
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Smiley is noted(!) but my work and sleep pattern means that 08:50 IS early. And then try this for size, on the return journey, it was a 20:15 departure so seat selection should be easy? No, I was due to have dinner with friends. Should I tell them I would be late to their invitation or check in late? By the time I did check in I could not get the seat I wanted but was at least saved from being stuck in the middle section (in BA 744, WT+ still has four seats in the middle) so I got second best, even though my profile states window for preference. So, when they did the basic allocation, that should have been considered. OK, I'm a lowly Blue card so it didn't happen.
The question is: Will I agree to pay for seat selection and THEN learn that the one I want is not available OR do I get to look at the seating plan and THEN choose if want to pay to change the selection???? I'll bet that isn't in the silly press release.
Kelly Hopper I agree with much of what you say and you can rest assured that ut will be come more expensive - very soon!
As we all know, the great expansion of travel brought about by the 747 and subsequent wide-bodies means that the world has changed and people believe that travel is cheap. It isn't and will continue to get expensive again the only catch is that, service levels will remain, for the most part, low.
08:50, extra early? 
The question is: Will I agree to pay for seat selection and THEN learn that the one I want is not available OR do I get to look at the seating plan and THEN choose if want to pay to change the selection???? I'll bet that isn't in the silly press release.
Kelly Hopper I agree with much of what you say and you can rest assured that ut will be come more expensive - very soon!
As we all know, the great expansion of travel brought about by the 747 and subsequent wide-bodies means that the world has changed and people believe that travel is cheap. It isn't and will continue to get expensive again the only catch is that, service levels will remain, for the most part, low.
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It seems to me that when the cost of a ticket does go up its usually down to another increase in some form of tax. I also seem to remember a fuel surcharge going up last year, has it gone down now?
We can't all sit in the same seat, can we?
With regard to me choosing BA over AA and Virgin its my personal preference. They all seem to be the same cost but thats another story.
Earlier this year my parents flew over to visit me and my father complined he couldn't reserve a seat untill the 24 hours before saying he didn't mind paying a few pounds more as he does on charter flights. So if the public are used to it on holiday charters why not?
We can't all sit in the same seat, can we?
With regard to me choosing BA over AA and Virgin its my personal preference. They all seem to be the same cost but thats another story.
Earlier this year my parents flew over to visit me and my father complined he couldn't reserve a seat untill the 24 hours before saying he didn't mind paying a few pounds more as he does on charter flights. So if the public are used to it on holiday charters why not?
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Kelly Hopper,
In general, of course you're right, which is why I don't mind paying, for example, Ryanair's credit card charge, because even with this charge I'm getting outstanding value.
But my BA flights are in Club World and I resent the £120 extra per return trip per passenger for something which was free a few years ago, on top of a fare which is already expensive.
I feel much the same about the charge BA adds when I purchase these Club World tickets using my BA Amex card. It's insulting.
In general, of course you're right, which is why I don't mind paying, for example, Ryanair's credit card charge, because even with this charge I'm getting outstanding value.
But my BA flights are in Club World and I resent the £120 extra per return trip per passenger for something which was free a few years ago, on top of a fare which is already expensive.
I feel much the same about the charge BA adds when I purchase these Club World tickets using my BA Amex card. It's insulting.
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It seems to me that when the cost of a ticket does go up its usually down to another increase in some form of tax. I also seem to remember a fuel surcharge going up last year, has it gone down now?
A couple of days ago I investigated the cost of booking a "free" flight in Club World from London to Sydney and back. Taxes and charges amounted to almost £500 - and there'll be an additional £120 fee soon for not wishing to sit in the worst seats on the aircraft.
You ain't seen nothing yet.
To give BA their due among the legacy carriers this whole "ancillary services" charging was started by the US carriers. Baggage, pillows and who knows what else. Virgin and many "charter" carriers have had fees for "leg room" seats or "sit together" for a while now. You could argue BA are just joining in.
But, believe me, the airlines as a whole have all sorts of ideas up their sleeves. Once they have the EMD (Electronic Miscellaneous Document) up and running and ATPCO (Airline Tariff Publishing Company) deliver their record for filing all these different fees this sort of thing will escalate big time.
But, believe me, the airlines as a whole have all sorts of ideas up their sleeves. Once they have the EMD (Electronic Miscellaneous Document) up and running and ATPCO (Airline Tariff Publishing Company) deliver their record for filing all these different fees this sort of thing will escalate big time.
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Had my first view of this new world yesterday and do not like it!
Whilst the new system is not in place yet I received yesterday what i expect to be the way forward when this policy is fully implemented.
I am a Gold BA exec card holder and have been so for a number of years. For my recent LHR-AUH flight I selected the emerg exit row when I booked and confirmed it when I checked in on line as you do.
On arrival at LHR my partner and I were advised that on the plane being used our seat row was now in WTP and as such we had been moved to the back of the plane but luckily got to sit together. I appreciate that these things happen but my issue is that the plane still had the same seats albeit with different numbers. I realise that this seems like a churlish compliant know but my issues are two fold under the new policy.
If the plane changes and you loose your pre paid seats then do you get a refund?
As Gold members do not have to pay to select seats then is a reasonable assumption that paying passengers will take priority in such a situation.
The rub to all of this is that I have always chosen BA over EY for my LHR-AUH-LHR flights and also when going to the US and this despite my having an Etihad (EY) gold card and BA offering les daily flights and frequently being more expensive.
In future EY will get my business and BA will only be second choice.
Not sure it will really bother BA but over the course of a year I travel in all cabins including first and how you treat a passenger when they travel economy has an equal effect on there choice of carrier for the premium cabins.
I am a Gold BA exec card holder and have been so for a number of years. For my recent LHR-AUH flight I selected the emerg exit row when I booked and confirmed it when I checked in on line as you do.
On arrival at LHR my partner and I were advised that on the plane being used our seat row was now in WTP and as such we had been moved to the back of the plane but luckily got to sit together. I appreciate that these things happen but my issue is that the plane still had the same seats albeit with different numbers. I realise that this seems like a churlish compliant know but my issues are two fold under the new policy.
If the plane changes and you loose your pre paid seats then do you get a refund?
As Gold members do not have to pay to select seats then is a reasonable assumption that paying passengers will take priority in such a situation.
The rub to all of this is that I have always chosen BA over EY for my LHR-AUH-LHR flights and also when going to the US and this despite my having an Etihad (EY) gold card and BA offering les daily flights and frequently being more expensive.
In future EY will get my business and BA will only be second choice.
Not sure it will really bother BA but over the course of a year I travel in all cabins including first and how you treat a passenger when they travel economy has an equal effect on there choice of carrier for the premium cabins.
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It just don't compute
They want you to check in online so they can reduce checkin staff and make savings. Fine. Then they charge you to select a seat ?? Doh
If I ever fly BA again (unlikely) I will turn up at the airport, speak nicely at the desk, and maybe get me an emergency exit or even an upgrade. No way will I pay them for a service which should already allow them to make savings and improve service.
If I ever fly BA again (unlikely) I will turn up at the airport, speak nicely at the desk, and maybe get me an emergency exit or even an upgrade. No way will I pay them for a service which should already allow them to make savings and improve service.
Best of luck. It's never worked for me.
The danger is, as BA will admit, they sell 110% of the seats given the chance, that everybody else will have checked in on-line and you will turn up as one of the 101 - 110% and will get bumped off.
That happened to a mate of mine on a flght from LHR to Madrid a couple of weeks back. Fortunately he got a large cash sum and another plane 3 hours later so was pretty happy. Wouldn't be so pleased if you were on the "one flight a day" of a long haul leg and you arrived a day late for the meeting !!
The danger is, as BA will admit, they sell 110% of the seats given the chance, that everybody else will have checked in on-line and you will turn up as one of the 101 - 110% and will get bumped off.
That happened to a mate of mine on a flght from LHR to Madrid a couple of weeks back. Fortunately he got a large cash sum and another plane 3 hours later so was pretty happy. Wouldn't be so pleased if you were on the "one flight a day" of a long haul leg and you arrived a day late for the meeting !!
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Hadn't thought of that, Dave... but could 110% checkin online - or have they got some sort of autobumping in place to prevent that ?? And if so how then does anyone over-sold get any compensation?? As I said, I'll take my chances with a real person at the desk.
Last edited by Dubaian; 29th Sep 2009 at 11:41. Reason: Typo fixed
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo
You're advocating that a private firm can be closed down and shareholders done over plus thousands of staff thrown on the dole?
One has to consider the creditors. Is BA solvent? What are its real pension fund liabilities?
As I said.
"Why is such a irrelevant and out of date dinosaur like BA being allowed to have a strangle hold on what we are constantly told is a National Asset?"
One also has to consider BA's competitors. A level playing field needs to be maintained.
And that means we consider the consumer (and the shareholders of other airlines and the employees of other airlines). You don't seem to be too bothered us consumers do you, eh? Neither does BA, recent fines for conspiring to defraud us by fuel surcharge manipulation come to mind.
Is BA technically insolvent? If it is it needs to be closed down. Its balance sheet does not make for easy reading, what are its true pension fund liabilities?
I see how you got the username as this is possibly the most ignorant post on here in a long time.
Y'know I haven't a clue how that could work because thay have to allocate you a seat before you "on line check in" so you can see it and change it.
As I said earlier I went to a lot of trouble to check in on line early this month and there wasn't another seat to be had. And the flight was chocca and the cabin very hot.
As I said earlier I went to a lot of trouble to check in on line early this month and there wasn't another seat to be had. And the flight was chocca and the cabin very hot.
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Seat selection is already a chargable event with SQ (& I believe Virgin) if you're wanting an exit row or similar. I'm travelling LHR-SIN-LHR with SQ in a fortnight and paid the £60 extra to reserve a seat with the extra legroom. I'd rather pay extra and know what I'm getting than chance it on the day - being as I'm over 6ft. Anyway, I only paid £294 incl. for the return ticket, so don't feel like I've done badly overall.