The Jet2 Thread
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No worries at all.
Perhaps it's because I'm still relatively new to the flightdeck and haven't had time to, shall we say, settle in to some of the cynacism of long-termers who prowl these pages but I really do have a big passion for calming people's fear of flying and; in particular; challenging the apparant acceptance that lo-co's = higher risk of either bad service, delays, or a firey death.
Can I sign off from this thread with the following unscientific straw poll of recent tragedies (without any prejudice) and what we may learn from them:
Last major world-event air crash - Air France 447. Flag carrier of a major EU nation. Date: 2009.
Last major UK-event air crash - BA038. This country's flag carrier. Date: 2008.
Last major, or any, Jet2 event of note - never.
Suppose it just goes to show. Happy flying my friend.
Perhaps it's because I'm still relatively new to the flightdeck and haven't had time to, shall we say, settle in to some of the cynacism of long-termers who prowl these pages but I really do have a big passion for calming people's fear of flying and; in particular; challenging the apparant acceptance that lo-co's = higher risk of either bad service, delays, or a firey death.
Can I sign off from this thread with the following unscientific straw poll of recent tragedies (without any prejudice) and what we may learn from them:
Last major world-event air crash - Air France 447. Flag carrier of a major EU nation. Date: 2009.
Last major UK-event air crash - BA038. This country's flag carrier. Date: 2008.
Last major, or any, Jet2 event of note - never.
Suppose it just goes to show. Happy flying my friend.
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It's very unscientific indeed if I may say so.
Flights operated since 1970 by :
BA 8.27 m
AF 5.90 m
Jet2 0.1 m??
I'm not implying that Jet2 is any more or less safe than any others, simply that your statement is meaningless unless qualified by some figures.
Flights operated since 1970 by :
BA 8.27 m
AF 5.90 m
Jet2 0.1 m??
I'm not implying that Jet2 is any more or less safe than any others, simply that your statement is meaningless unless qualified by some figures.
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Yep, fair point, and as I said - very unscientific. It was intended purely to quell this particular pax fear of flying with a lo-co, specifically Jet2.
No qualms from me about the bigger fish whatsoever. My point was simple: you're as safe on a small-fry budget like ours as you are on a flag carrier like BA / AF.
Regards.
No qualms from me about the bigger fish whatsoever. My point was simple: you're as safe on a small-fry budget like ours as you are on a flag carrier like BA / AF.
Regards.
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I have flown Jet2 out of Blackpool many times to Murcia & Alicante. I am a nervous flyer but have always been reassured by the staff on board. The planes as far as I am aware are always okay.
Better IME than BMI Baby, Easyjet & Ryanair, you can pre-book seat before flying as I always book row 1 seats and you can check in on-line and fast drop bags at airport
All in all one of the better 'budget' airlines, I say that because no such thing as a cheap flight now
Smudgesmum
Better IME than BMI Baby, Easyjet & Ryanair, you can pre-book seat before flying as I always book row 1 seats and you can check in on-line and fast drop bags at airport
All in all one of the better 'budget' airlines, I say that because no such thing as a cheap flight now
Smudgesmum
Lady Lexxington
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Ahem, turns out that the queue built up because it was made up of passengers who arrived at the airport before the staff came on shift. I'm sure the staff weren't sat there "doing nothing" from my experience of working on check in (not Jet 2) at MAN the system takes a bloody age to sign in.
Maybe one of you would like to suggest to that nice Mr Meeson that he might want to pay his handling agent more so they come on shift earlier. Personally I would have called the police too, nobody has the right to absue another person at work, especially not if it reduces that person to tears. Why didn't he speak to the managers of the handling agent and ask them what was going on? Or was it easier to scream and rant and publically humilate those staff on shift? What a prat.
Maybe one of you would like to suggest to that nice Mr Meeson that he might want to pay his handling agent more so they come on shift earlier. Personally I would have called the police too, nobody has the right to absue another person at work, especially not if it reduces that person to tears. Why didn't he speak to the managers of the handling agent and ask them what was going on? Or was it easier to scream and rant and publically humilate those staff on shift? What a prat.
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Well lets see:
They weren't his staff, they were his companies subcontractors staff.
He isn't a particularly high profile character so how would anybody know who he was from Adam?
Someone ranting and raving in an airport queue wouldn't normally make it to the Daily mail even if the police were called.
He knew exactly who to speak to if he had a complaint, because he approves the contracts.
Now he is a folk hero?
Now he has some publicity?
If one of his own staff, had actually behaved in this manner, he would have had them out in a heartbeat.
Yes clearly a spontaneous outburst, not!
They weren't his staff, they were his companies subcontractors staff.
He isn't a particularly high profile character so how would anybody know who he was from Adam?
Someone ranting and raving in an airport queue wouldn't normally make it to the Daily mail even if the police were called.
He knew exactly who to speak to if he had a complaint, because he approves the contracts.
Now he is a folk hero?
Now he has some publicity?
If one of his own staff, had actually behaved in this manner, he would have had them out in a heartbeat.
Yes clearly a spontaneous outburst, not!
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I wasn't there, neither were you Beazelbub, so neither of us knows exactly what passed.
However, he is buying a service against a service level agreement and if the handling agent was not meeting the performance indicators specified in the contract, he had every reason to intervene.
In fact, if he sues the contractor for breach, the judge will ask him what steps he took to give the contractor the opportunity to discharge it and mitigate the damages.
If I was present and one of my contractors personnel was failing to deliver the contracted services effectively, I would swiftly intervene to prevent the damage to my brand.
I was not there and do not know what language he used (I do not condone bad langauge), but please do not imply that he should not have spoken to the check in agents, because that is wrong.
However, he is buying a service against a service level agreement and if the handling agent was not meeting the performance indicators specified in the contract, he had every reason to intervene.
In fact, if he sues the contractor for breach, the judge will ask him what steps he took to give the contractor the opportunity to discharge it and mitigate the damages.
If I was present and one of my contractors personnel was failing to deliver the contracted services effectively, I would swiftly intervene to prevent the damage to my brand.
I was not there and do not know what language he used (I do not condone bad langauge), but please do not imply that he should not have spoken to the check in agents, because that is wrong.
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Totally disagree with you F3G, he should have spoken to the management of the handling agent if he was not satisfied that the agreed contract was being adhered to. Did he check to see if perhaps the system had gone down, or perhaps a baggage belt failure, or perhaps a large number of sickies ?
I used to run an airline and know PM quite well. He is passionate about his airline and not many people in his position would turn up at a check in to monitor service in the first place. Understand he also takes flights to check service as well. More power to his elbow for that!
In the same position I would have also hit the roof, in fact when something similar happened to me I tried to speak to the 'supervisor' and he locked himself in his room and wouldn't come out! I am a pussy cat by comparison to PM.
What an airline pays its contractors to do a job properly is irrelevant, if the contractor cant do the job PROPERLY at the price don't do it all.
The airline IS the customer, days off, sickies,snow on the lines etc don't come in to it they are not the airlines problem.
I wasn't there so don't know exactly what happened but it sounds like he achieved his aim in getting things moving and pleased HIS customers by doing so,
Clever man Mr M.
In the same position I would have also hit the roof, in fact when something similar happened to me I tried to speak to the 'supervisor' and he locked himself in his room and wouldn't come out! I am a pussy cat by comparison to PM.
What an airline pays its contractors to do a job properly is irrelevant, if the contractor cant do the job PROPERLY at the price don't do it all.
The airline IS the customer, days off, sickies,snow on the lines etc don't come in to it they are not the airlines problem.
I wasn't there so don't know exactly what happened but it sounds like he achieved his aim in getting things moving and pleased HIS customers by doing so,
Clever man Mr M.
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Yes he is.
I knew the gentleman years ago when I provided some instruction to him. A very pleasant chap he was as well. However as an aerobatic pilot as he was then, he knew how to be a showman as well.
I don't think this particular show made it in to the Daily Mail all by itself, and some of the gullibility is worthy of applause.
I knew the gentleman years ago when I provided some instruction to him. A very pleasant chap he was as well. However as an aerobatic pilot as he was then, he knew how to be a showman as well.
I don't think this particular show made it in to the Daily Mail all by itself, and some of the gullibility is worthy of applause.
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Frontcheck
These are not his problems, the contractor's delivery against the performance indicators are. If the belt has failed, there will be a provision in the cntract to deal with, but I doubt that sickiess will be in there, as I said he is buying a service against a service level agreement.
No doubt he did that too, but the primary action is to mitigate the damage and protect the brand, by talking to the people who were there, no doubt including the managerial/supervisory staff who were there.
Did he check to see if perhaps the system had gone down, or perhaps a baggage belt failure, or perhaps a large number of sickies ?
he should have spoken to the management of the handling agent if he was not satisfied that the agreed contract was being adhered to.
Last edited by Final 3 Greens; 24th Sep 2009 at 18:23.
To be fair to PM he turned up on a Saturday [the D/mail report doesn't say if it was an early morning flight] and quite rightly IMHO made an issue of poor customer care.
I know that the check-in staff could say that they are only being paid from 'x' o clock, but why sit about when their [regardless of being sub-contractors] customers are waiting ? How long does it tke to read The Sun/Daily Mirror/Times. Having done similar jobs in the past my feeling has always been to get started as soon as possible and get the job done [or am I being a bit old fashioned here?] The 'I start work at 8 and finish at 6 - no more no less' attitude should be long gone by now
The sooner MOL and WW take the same attitude to customer care as PM and experience the reality of flying on their airlines, the sooner I will believe their platitudes regarding looking after their customers. [Interestingly in the Sunday Times WW boasted of flying economy twice with BA!! - after almost 4 years in the job this would seem that WW has no idea of how his out-dated product appears to his customers]
I know that the check-in staff could say that they are only being paid from 'x' o clock, but why sit about when their [regardless of being sub-contractors] customers are waiting ? How long does it tke to read The Sun/Daily Mirror/Times. Having done similar jobs in the past my feeling has always been to get started as soon as possible and get the job done [or am I being a bit old fashioned here?] The 'I start work at 8 and finish at 6 - no more no less' attitude should be long gone by now
The sooner MOL and WW take the same attitude to customer care as PM and experience the reality of flying on their airlines, the sooner I will believe their platitudes regarding looking after their customers. [Interestingly in the Sunday Times WW boasted of flying economy twice with BA!! - after almost 4 years in the job this would seem that WW has no idea of how his out-dated product appears to his customers]
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Nice theory wowzz, but from what has been said it seems that the early morning check in availability has been reduced to 2 hours before departure of the first flight. I would be very surprised if this was not part of a renegotiation between Aviance and Jet2 aimed at cutting the bill for services that Jet2 receive. To then expect that Aviance open check in early because there is a queue is unreasonable, as I doubt that Mr Meeson would be at all thrilled to receive an extra charge for that.
Airlines only have a finite number of tools in their cost reduction box, and minimising the fee they pay for ground handling is one of them. Unfortunately the less you pay the less service you get, whether it is reduced opening hours for check in, or a reduction in the quality of service they receive as the handling agent is forced to reduce the wages offered to their staff.
Airlines only have a finite number of tools in their cost reduction box, and minimising the fee they pay for ground handling is one of them. Unfortunately the less you pay the less service you get, whether it is reduced opening hours for check in, or a reduction in the quality of service they receive as the handling agent is forced to reduce the wages offered to their staff.
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Fully agree with curious pax above... Many times airlines (not just the low-fare) specify opening times for checkin, and pax have to wait until that time because backroom staff (sometimes not handling agent but airline backroom staff) or systems don't open a flight for airport checkin until a specific time. CUTE/checkin desk use time is sometimes charged by the airports, and sometimes there are technical reasons why pax can't be checked in until a certain time - cut over from web checkin to desk checkin simetimes being one.
Paxing All Over The World
wowzz
Because they are sub-contractors - they do not have to do a single second of work outside of the contract. This is one of the simple problems of outsourcing. I shall not start to ride this hobby horse again (as I have done in this forum before!) but when I saw outsourcing starting in my then USA employer in 1989 - I knew that it was bad news for the staff and customers.
The ONLY action available to 'AP' was to speak (quietly) to the contract company manager and see what had happened. He may be passionate and he may have achieved some short term good press coverage but how will his contracted staff think of him? Sure, they might have been less than speedy or there may be some other simple explanation but I do no think it was good management. If you outsource - then you lose direct control of the staff. If you want to bawl them out, then pay for them directly.
Curious Pax
This sounds more like it, although we shall never know for sure. If pax are turning up earlier - because they know of slow service and scrums at check in - then they are being very sensible to mitigate the poor service being offered! 
As always, companies try to have it both ways.
I know that the check-in staff could say that they are only being paid from 'x' o clock, but why sit about when their [regardless of being sub-contractors] customers are waiting ?
The ONLY action available to 'AP' was to speak (quietly) to the contract company manager and see what had happened. He may be passionate and he may have achieved some short term good press coverage but how will his contracted staff think of him? Sure, they might have been less than speedy or there may be some other simple explanation but I do no think it was good management. If you outsource - then you lose direct control of the staff. If you want to bawl them out, then pay for them directly.
Curious Pax
... early morning check in availability has been reduced to 2 hours before departure of the first flight. I would be very surprised if this was not part of a renegotiation between Aviance and Jet2 aimed at cutting the bill for services that Jet2 receive.
As always, companies try to have it both ways.
PAXboy - I agree and I am eating a little humble pie here. At the end of the day PM is responsible for the contract J2 agreed with his handling agents at Manchester, and he cannot really argue if they are working to the contract .
I think there was a similar thread a week or two ago about poor service levels from staff manning the BA check-in desks at Manchester. Would they be Aviance personnel as well?
The problem, as has been stated before, is that once a company out-sources any customer/airline interface [sorry about the terminology] the airline abdicates overall responsibility for customer care. If PM really cares for his customers, he should employ J2 check-in staff -- then he really is in a position to shout at them!
I think there was a similar thread a week or two ago about poor service levels from staff manning the BA check-in desks at Manchester. Would they be Aviance personnel as well?
The problem, as has been stated before, is that once a company out-sources any customer/airline interface [sorry about the terminology] the airline abdicates overall responsibility for customer care. If PM really cares for his customers, he should employ J2 check-in staff -- then he really is in a position to shout at them!
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I think there was a similar thread a week or two ago about poor service levels from staff manning the BA check-in desks at Manchester. Would they be Aviance personnel as well?
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This is the same guy who came up with term 'Lazy Frogs'. Maybe you can get away with that attitude in the RAF but in the real world it's a no no. The staff involved has already resigned and well played. It's bad enough taking crap from passengers all day on £5-6 an hour without taking it from some pompous mill owner.
Fall on your sword wing commander.
Fall on your sword wing commander.
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Cutler 10.....Hi from a CC who is used to dealing with nervous pax 
I've never flown with Jet 2 so I don't know what the onboard experience is like personally but I have only ever heard good about their CC. As far as I know there are no safety concerns with this carrier.
You can always find bad reviews about any airline if you look hard enough and some of them don't even bother to hide it anyway as it gives publicity. No publicity is seen as bad. Take easyjet. You only have to turn on to the airline programme to see how awful we are.....apparently
. Pax fly with us to see if this is true and are usually pleasently surprised. However you can't please all of the peeps all of the time!!
Fly with Jet 2 and form your own opinions based on your experience. If you feel nervous tell the CC and ask to sit near them at the front. You will have the reassurance of their presence but you can also hear every single noise going. A good CC will be able to explain what these are too you, that it is normal flight noises and maybe with a bit of humour as well.
I remember as a new CC sitting at the front for the first time all I could hear on landing from the flight deck was "retard, retard, retard". I asked a Pilot what it was and he told me the computer didn't like them that day and was being insulting
I later found out it was a standard reminder to them to pull back on the throttles...was I had or what at the time
Just making the point here that sometimes the humour from aircrew in this forum can sometimes be mistaken for something else by the SLF. I read ex-excel-in-in-excile's response to you and couldn't stop laughing because I recognised the aircrew humour. You thought you had caused offence.
This is a great forum for you to get info in as there are some very knowledgable peeps from all walks of aviation (crew and pax) and also different cultures. We might not all always agree and we all have different approaches but that is what makes it so interesting. As long as we all respect and are polite to one another ......
Forget rainboe's response. She comes with her own health warning anyway....Toxic
!
Enjoy your flight
I've never flown with Jet 2 so I don't know what the onboard experience is like personally but I have only ever heard good about their CC. As far as I know there are no safety concerns with this carrier.
You can always find bad reviews about any airline if you look hard enough and some of them don't even bother to hide it anyway as it gives publicity. No publicity is seen as bad. Take easyjet. You only have to turn on to the airline programme to see how awful we are.....apparently
. Pax fly with us to see if this is true and are usually pleasently surprised. However you can't please all of the peeps all of the time!!Fly with Jet 2 and form your own opinions based on your experience. If you feel nervous tell the CC and ask to sit near them at the front. You will have the reassurance of their presence but you can also hear every single noise going. A good CC will be able to explain what these are too you, that it is normal flight noises and maybe with a bit of humour as well.
I remember as a new CC sitting at the front for the first time all I could hear on landing from the flight deck was "retard, retard, retard". I asked a Pilot what it was and he told me the computer didn't like them that day and was being insulting
I later found out it was a standard reminder to them to pull back on the throttles...was I had or what at the time
Just making the point here that sometimes the humour from aircrew in this forum can sometimes be mistaken for something else by the SLF. I read ex-excel-in-in-excile's response to you and couldn't stop laughing because I recognised the aircrew humour. You thought you had caused offence.
This is a great forum for you to get info in as there are some very knowledgable peeps from all walks of aviation (crew and pax) and also different cultures. We might not all always agree and we all have different approaches but that is what makes it so interesting. As long as we all respect and are polite to one another ......
Forget rainboe's response. She comes with her own health warning anyway....Toxic
!Enjoy your flight