AirFrance English NOT Language of aviation
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AirFrance English NOT Language of aviation
Hello all,
Booked a flight with Air France from Paris, checked in on line, all is well. However, at the gate in Terminal 2F I was prevented from boarding, because I had an emergency exit seat and did not speak NATIVE French.
Air France " do you speak french ?"
Me " no, english, russian, Japanese yes"
Air France person " you must be native french speaking person to sit on the emergency isle."
Me , "but i speak fluent English which is the language of aviation and the signs on board are in English?"
Air France person, " No you must speak Native french on a French reg aircraft, english is NOT the language of aviation "
Can someone explain if this is new EU policy, perhaps a new safety rule ?
Is it policy for all airlines to have Native speaking pax on emergency isle? Alitalia Italian Iberia Spanish etc... ?
What happens when you dont have native speaking pax on board that reg airraft? empty seats ?
Thanks in advance
Mr M
Booked a flight with Air France from Paris, checked in on line, all is well. However, at the gate in Terminal 2F I was prevented from boarding, because I had an emergency exit seat and did not speak NATIVE French.
Air France " do you speak french ?"
Me " no, english, russian, Japanese yes"
Air France person " you must be native french speaking person to sit on the emergency isle."
Me , "but i speak fluent English which is the language of aviation and the signs on board are in English?"
Air France person, " No you must speak Native french on a French reg aircraft, english is NOT the language of aviation "
Can someone explain if this is new EU policy, perhaps a new safety rule ?
Is it policy for all airlines to have Native speaking pax on emergency isle? Alitalia Italian Iberia Spanish etc... ?
What happens when you dont have native speaking pax on board that reg airraft? empty seats ?
Thanks in advance
Mr M
I would imagine that if this was a seat with extra leg room the check-in agent wanted to give the seat to a friend or staff member. I have never heard of such a regulation or policy. I would have called for a Supervisor and asked them to provide me with written proof of its existence.
Last edited by Avman; 4th Sep 2009 at 18:29.
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F3G, heard and read the same before, but can't remember where either ...
Edit: would this be the thread in question?
If the other pax were mainly French speaking, I could imagine they wanted someone with at least some knowledge of French at the emergency exit, so that in case of an evacuation that person would be able to communicate with the other pax in their own language.
However, in that case I would expect them to just ask you to switch places with someone else, in stead of not allowing you to board.
Edit: would this be the thread in question?
If the other pax were mainly French speaking, I could imagine they wanted someone with at least some knowledge of French at the emergency exit, so that in case of an evacuation that person would be able to communicate with the other pax in their own language.
However, in that case I would expect them to just ask you to switch places with someone else, in stead of not allowing you to board.
Last edited by Moira; 4th Sep 2009 at 18:57. Reason: Link added
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Many thanks, you did a better job than me.
The quote was
Many thanks, you did a better job than me.
The quote was
Quote
"Is speaking English a legal requirement? I very much doubt it."
On a recent internal US flight (Atlanta-PC Florida) the safety card stated that to occupy the emergency exit seats the pax had to know enough English to understand the briefing on the opening of the exits
s37
"Is speaking English a legal requirement? I very much doubt it."
On a recent internal US flight (Atlanta-PC Florida) the safety card stated that to occupy the emergency exit seats the pax had to know enough English to understand the briefing on the opening of the exits
s37
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Different Civil Aviation Authorities (CAAs) may have different requirements for the individuals occupying the exit row. In Canada, the language may be either French or English, as we are a bilingual country:
Advisory Circular 705-001 - Bilingual Briefings at Window Emergency Exits
Generally, many CAAs require air carriers to establish limitations on who may be seated at an exit. These limitations often include the following:
* must be physically capable of using the exit;
* must be capable of understanding the printed and spoken emergency instructions;
* must be able to visually determine if the exit is safe to open;
* must have sufficient mobility, strength and dexterity to reach, operate and stow (or otherwise dispose of) the emergency exit;
* must be able to receive aural information from the crew and to orally communicate that information to other passengers;
* must be of a minimum age (as established by the air operator) to ensure that he/she has the physical, cognitive and sensory capacity to operate an emergency exit;
* must not be responsible for another person as this can hinder the opening of the emergency exit; and
* must not have a condition which might cause them harm by opening the exit.
While I am not familiar with the specific regulatory requirements of the DGAC, it is possibly a regulatory requirement in France for the passenger to speak French, just as it is a requirement in the US for the passenger to speak English...
Advisory Circular 705-001 - Bilingual Briefings at Window Emergency Exits
Generally, many CAAs require air carriers to establish limitations on who may be seated at an exit. These limitations often include the following:
* must be physically capable of using the exit;
* must be capable of understanding the printed and spoken emergency instructions;
* must be able to visually determine if the exit is safe to open;
* must have sufficient mobility, strength and dexterity to reach, operate and stow (or otherwise dispose of) the emergency exit;
* must be able to receive aural information from the crew and to orally communicate that information to other passengers;
* must be of a minimum age (as established by the air operator) to ensure that he/she has the physical, cognitive and sensory capacity to operate an emergency exit;
* must not be responsible for another person as this can hinder the opening of the emergency exit; and
* must not have a condition which might cause them harm by opening the exit.
While I am not familiar with the specific regulatory requirements of the DGAC, it is possibly a regulatory requirement in France for the passenger to speak French, just as it is a requirement in the US for the passenger to speak English...
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CD, you got it right. The reason is that when we are in a situation of stress, we tend to go back to basics, therefore to our own mother tongue or at least a language we are very familiar with. The person near ther emergency exit must be fit for the role of helping the CC in case of emergency with some tasks that involve receiving instruction from the crew and giving directions to the other pax. It is obvious that that kind of exchange is best carried out by people speaking the same language.
The ICAO rule says that the languages of aviation are English, Spanish, French, Arabic, Russian and Chinese, which can be used if both the persons who communicate speak the same language.
English which is the language of aviation
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What you say makes sense.
I would not wish an non English speaker to be near an exit on an Anglophone flight and its fair enough for Francophones to be placed there on French speaking flights. I speak French to a reasonable conversational degree, but I wouldn't like to have to use it when dealing with an emergency.
I guess the complication is when you get airlines that hire crews who have a variety of mother tongues?
What do they revert to under stress?
What you say makes sense.
I would not wish an non English speaker to be near an exit on an Anglophone flight and its fair enough for Francophones to be placed there on French speaking flights. I speak French to a reasonable conversational degree, but I wouldn't like to have to use it when dealing with an emergency.
I guess the complication is when you get airlines that hire crews who have a variety of mother tongues?
What do they revert to under stress?
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I was wondering the same thing F3G. I'm not sure about Air France but I've flown for contract airlines where there would be a number of nationalities among the crew and therefore it was a strict English only policy when on board and in our emergency commands.
That said, we would often do flights where none of the passengers spoke English, or any common language to the crew (eg Hadj flights). I would hate to think what an emergency would be like to deal with in that situation. Saudia 163 springs to mind. I believe language was also an issue with an incident with a Garuda DC10 in Fukuoka in 1996 (but I would need to research that more).
However, using BA as an example, there are also many combinations of mother tongues among the crew and yet, looking back on various emergencies over the years, I don't recall language being an issue.
Overall, I would go as far as to say that with emergency drills and commands, a crew member will go straight to whatever they were taught, so if it was English, then they will go straight to their English shout commands. If these commands are in French, then yes, it would make sense to have French speaking passengers in your door area.
That said, we would often do flights where none of the passengers spoke English, or any common language to the crew (eg Hadj flights). I would hate to think what an emergency would be like to deal with in that situation. Saudia 163 springs to mind. I believe language was also an issue with an incident with a Garuda DC10 in Fukuoka in 1996 (but I would need to research that more).
However, using BA as an example, there are also many combinations of mother tongues among the crew and yet, looking back on various emergencies over the years, I don't recall language being an issue.
Overall, I would go as far as to say that with emergency drills and commands, a crew member will go straight to whatever they were taught, so if it was English, then they will go straight to their English shout commands. If these commands are in French, then yes, it would make sense to have French speaking passengers in your door area.
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Sign Language`
Isn't it why the pax seated on exit seats are given a briefing and asked to read the instructions before take of? In my opinion in an emergency the shouting regardless of language would be sufficient for a person to follow the instructions provided he filled all the criteria required to sit in that seat.
Much like the french approach to many things about themselves, smell of some smelly cheese
Much like the french approach to many things about themselves, smell of some smelly cheese
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Final
Point taken, however assuming from the briefing pax get before wheels up the Cabin crew does use a liberal dose of hand signals and does give that briefing in English. I am assuming if someone spoke English which is a common language, they would understand the sign language.
Not buying the argument of Air France if what is said is true.
Point taken, however assuming from the briefing pax get before wheels up the Cabin crew does use a liberal dose of hand signals and does give that briefing in English. I am assuming if someone spoke English which is a common language, they would understand the sign language.
Not buying the argument of Air France if what is said is true.
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A lot would depend on the specific exit type as well. Passengers sitting at a self-help exit mid-cabin will not be able to see any cabin crew signals - plus cabin crew will be busy assessing their own door situations.
To be honest, I don't believe there will ever be a perfect combination of language capabilities among the crew and passengers. You just have to be vigilant to ensure that you have the right people at the exits for the conditions on the day. If you ever done a SAGA or Lourdes charter, you'd know what I mean.
I can see why AF would want to ensure a common language exists between the crew and the passengers at the exits and if it happens to be French, then so be it. Doesn't mean I wouldn't find it frustrating though.
To be honest, I don't believe there will ever be a perfect combination of language capabilities among the crew and passengers. You just have to be vigilant to ensure that you have the right people at the exits for the conditions on the day. If you ever done a SAGA or Lourdes charter, you'd know what I mean.
I can see why AF would want to ensure a common language exists between the crew and the passengers at the exits and if it happens to be French, then so be it. Doesn't mean I wouldn't find it frustrating though.
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A lot would depend on the specific exit type as well. Passengers sitting at a self-help exit mid-cabin will not be able to see any cabin crew signals - plus cabin crew will be busy assessing their own door situations.
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if someone spoke English which is a common language
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Common Language
Agreed English is not the most widely spoken language. That distinction belongs to the Chinese language which is probably due to the large population.
Still having a hard time trying to understand when was the last time I was on a flight or at an airport where signs were not in English or the crew did not speak English. I think chances on any flight would be that the common language would be English and not Chinese or some other language.
Taking the above statement into consideration please do advise on flights between southern Europe what is the language of communication between ATC and crew, even when they belong to the same nationality?
Do advise would this also mean that ex pat air crew and cabin staff should not be allowed to work national carriers because they do not speak the local language. Also on an airline like Air France I have seen crew from various nationalities in the cabin so does that mean they necessarily speak french or have they been hired to communicate with passengers on routes who do not necessarily understand French?
To me the excuse still smells rotten.
Still having a hard time trying to understand when was the last time I was on a flight or at an airport where signs were not in English or the crew did not speak English. I think chances on any flight would be that the common language would be English and not Chinese or some other language.
Air France person, " No you must speak Native french on a French reg aircraft, english is NOT the language of aviation "
Do advise would this also mean that ex pat air crew and cabin staff should not be allowed to work national carriers because they do not speak the local language. Also on an airline like Air France I have seen crew from various nationalities in the cabin so does that mean they necessarily speak french or have they been hired to communicate with passengers on routes who do not necessarily understand French?
To me the excuse still smells rotten.
I'd imagine that English is the most widely spoken language, geographically although not numerically. While more people may speak Chinese, most of them are all in one place, whereas English is the second language of choice for the majority of the world.
Not trying to say its any better than any other language, before anyone gets tetchy
Not trying to say its any better than any other language, before anyone gets tetchy