Viking Airlines
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Warrington
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Viking Airlines
Hi
I was supposed to be flying with Viking Airlines on Sunday 23rd August to Kefalonia (VIK337) @ 15:30. I have just received an email to advise that I am now flying with Thomas Cook (TCX29K) @ 06:00 on 23rd
Anyone have any info please?
I was supposed to be flying with Viking Airlines on Sunday 23rd August to Kefalonia (VIK337) @ 15:30. I have just received an email to advise that I am now flying with Thomas Cook (TCX29K) @ 06:00 on 23rd
Anyone have any info please?
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Viking don't operate to EFL on Sunday's.
VIK337 (if it existed) would be a Wednesday flight so guess its yet another case of the Tour Operator 'ghosting' flight numbers.
Who did you book with?
VIK337 (if it existed) would be a Wednesday flight so guess its yet another case of the Tour Operator 'ghosting' flight numbers.
Who did you book with?
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Warrington
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ghost Flights!!!
What does that mean? 
I booked through Travel Republic but it then came back with something about Goldtrail Holidays - I am sooooo confused as they (Travel Republic) don't seem to know where I'm going, when, with whom etc etc.
Thanks for your help tho x
I booked through Travel Republic but it then came back with something about Goldtrail Holidays - I am sooooo confused as they (Travel Republic) don't seem to know where I'm going, when, with whom etc etc.
Thanks for your help tho x
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hemel Hempstead
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its to do with contracting.
If they cant contract one flight then they change, it was very similar to when excel was around as they had the biggest volume of seats for the small tour op market and if they couldnt charter the flight then they would buy seats on the big '3' (TOM/TCX/MON).
Usually they work on the assuption of VIK and then change if they need to.
If they cant contract one flight then they change, it was very similar to when excel was around as they had the biggest volume of seats for the small tour op market and if they couldnt charter the flight then they would buy seats on the big '3' (TOM/TCX/MON).
Usually they work on the assuption of VIK and then change if they need to.
To explain, tour operators only provisionally book capacity on holiday carriers. If they sell all the seats, that's fine and the arrangements can go ahead. If not then they do not operate, and "consolidate" on other operators. There is a fair amount of commercial discussion around this as you can imagine. It's normally finalised about 6 weeks in advance, 3 weeks is a bit short but probably reflects the time taken for the news to filter down through multiple hands. It's not just low demand either; high demand can mean they sell their own aircraft/seats out and then start shopping around the others.
Broadly speaking the major operators with their integral airlines are more likely to operate as planned, whereas the independent/untied airlines who come and go by the year are more likely to chop and change. It's one of those things where, the further in advance you book, the more likely things are to change. If you go and buy a holiday for next week you can pretty much be certain it will be as stated.
Holiday charter travellers will have noticed that all the different operators tend to go to the same place on the same day, from every departure airport in the UK; if you're say going to Fuerteventura most flights are Wednesday, a few on Saturday, and little on other days. In part this is so they can readily match different combinations of accommodation with different departure points if it all changes over on Wednesday. But it also facilitates fluidity of airline arrangements on the day, and "pushing everyone around".
"Ghost flights" can often be spotted at booking time by :
- Attractive departure times like 09.00 rather than 06.00.
- Departure times at "round" hours.
- Actual airline for the flight not mentioned, just a selection of names shown.
Broadly speaking the major operators with their integral airlines are more likely to operate as planned, whereas the independent/untied airlines who come and go by the year are more likely to chop and change. It's one of those things where, the further in advance you book, the more likely things are to change. If you go and buy a holiday for next week you can pretty much be certain it will be as stated.
Holiday charter travellers will have noticed that all the different operators tend to go to the same place on the same day, from every departure airport in the UK; if you're say going to Fuerteventura most flights are Wednesday, a few on Saturday, and little on other days. In part this is so they can readily match different combinations of accommodation with different departure points if it all changes over on Wednesday. But it also facilitates fluidity of airline arrangements on the day, and "pushing everyone around".
"Ghost flights" can often be spotted at booking time by :
- Attractive departure times like 09.00 rather than 06.00.
- Departure times at "round" hours.
- Actual airline for the flight not mentioned, just a selection of names shown.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All this is 100% spot on, and has been happening since the 1980's. Often the smaller operators will go to a flight broker who will offer them seats at a certain time throughout the season. This might be:
01 June: 20 Seats
07 June: 30 Seats
01 Sept: 20 Seats etc... etc...
Sometimes the operators will oversell these and other times have capacity and place them back into the market place for other operators to take them. If you read the small print with a tour operato they never guarantee the flight timings as they are charters, they guarantee you will fly on that day but not the timing, so they try and move things. It is ALWAYS a last resort I know thsi first hand, but in a way its naughty but airlines change regular with timings and slots and this is also connected to airports as well. They may be offered a flight time and aircraft then the airport changes its slot as its a charter and the airline may then need to change aircraft or can not supply it so the broker goes to another company.
Its just business, but life. The ONLY way to avoid it is to book with a company using a scheduled carrier, some do offer this but not a lot and its often higher in price, but schedule is that schedule, charter just hops into the available air space!
Hope that helps.
01 June: 20 Seats
07 June: 30 Seats
01 Sept: 20 Seats etc... etc...
Sometimes the operators will oversell these and other times have capacity and place them back into the market place for other operators to take them. If you read the small print with a tour operato they never guarantee the flight timings as they are charters, they guarantee you will fly on that day but not the timing, so they try and move things. It is ALWAYS a last resort I know thsi first hand, but in a way its naughty but airlines change regular with timings and slots and this is also connected to airports as well. They may be offered a flight time and aircraft then the airport changes its slot as its a charter and the airline may then need to change aircraft or can not supply it so the broker goes to another company.
Its just business, but life. The ONLY way to avoid it is to book with a company using a scheduled carrier, some do offer this but not a lot and its often higher in price, but schedule is that schedule, charter just hops into the available air space!
Hope that helps.
Thanks
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sam1993This was indeed a Viking flight at that time but Viking Airlines now send the 737 out to Sweden to operate a flight to Iraq for a Swedish tour operator!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but this flight NEVER existed in the Viking programme for this summer. The flight has been ghosted by the Tour Operator, making up flight numbers to suit their sales system.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but this flight NEVER existed in the Viking programme for this summer. The flight has been ghosted by the Tour Operator, making up flight numbers to suit their sales system.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To explain, tour operators only provisionally book capacity on holiday carriers. If they sell all the seats, that's fine and the arrangements can go ahead. If not then they do not operate, and "consolidate" on other operators.
This can happen when an operator has a new programme and they do not know whether it will be successful. However, in the main this is how it works.
Tour operator x has a programme running this summer. They want/need to print brochures for next year in June /July/August. In many cases (Big 2 apart) Charter Airlines have only just started to think about their fleet size, bases and programme and more importantly sschedules are not confirmed until November at the slot conference.
The tour operator has to print flight details in their brochure and therefore bases this on the flights they are either operating this summer or they know have operated.
The flights may or may not operate next year or alternatively the operator may find another flight with more suitable timings / price (remember they have to take a view on what the flight costs will be for next year) and as a result place a disclaimer in their terms and conditions.
Itis not a deliberate attempt to mislead it is just how the market operates.
Travel Republic etc do act in an agents capacity, they do not operate the packages themselves which is why in the above case it turns out that Goldtrail is the operator. The most important thing to remember is that you have to hold an ATOL licence if you sell two or more travel components, one of which is a charter flight.
Whether you would want to fly with Thomas Cook rather than Viking is a personal choice, however passenger feedback regarding Viking's onboard service is very complimentary.
This can happen when an operator has a new programme and they do not know whether it will be successful. However, in the main this is how it works.
Tour operator x has a programme running this summer. They want/need to print brochures for next year in June /July/August. In many cases (Big 2 apart) Charter Airlines have only just started to think about their fleet size, bases and programme and more importantly sschedules are not confirmed until November at the slot conference.
The tour operator has to print flight details in their brochure and therefore bases this on the flights they are either operating this summer or they know have operated.
The flights may or may not operate next year or alternatively the operator may find another flight with more suitable timings / price (remember they have to take a view on what the flight costs will be for next year) and as a result place a disclaimer in their terms and conditions.
Itis not a deliberate attempt to mislead it is just how the market operates.
Travel Republic etc do act in an agents capacity, they do not operate the packages themselves which is why in the above case it turns out that Goldtrail is the operator. The most important thing to remember is that you have to hold an ATOL licence if you sell two or more travel components, one of which is a charter flight.
Whether you would want to fly with Thomas Cook rather than Viking is a personal choice, however passenger feedback regarding Viking's onboard service is very complimentary.