Secureing of passengers for takeoff and landing

[radio ears]

Hi,
I have recently flown from Montreal to LHR on a B777 I do have some questions regarding the seating of passengers for takeoff and landing.

1. Parents with small baby in window and aisle seats in world traveler, they decide to swap seats quickly as the aircraft turns onto runway and starts t/o run. What should an observeing PAX do, push the call button quickly or shout unsecure cabin?

2. Landing a few mins out of LHR the cabin crew ask a passenger from the rear of the plane to take up a seat next to mine. Does not remind pax that the seat belt light is on and should belt up properly. I had to remind the pax at 5 seconds to go to put her belt on, as I did not want to be head butted by her should we bounce!! Other PAX had not had inclined chairs returned to the upright possiton.

What is the general view on this?

[Bealzebub]

1. Parents with small baby in window and aisle seats in world traveler, they decide to swap seats quickly as the aircraft turns onto runway and starts t/o run. What should an observeing PAX do, push the call button quickly or shout unsecure cabin?

There is a statutory requirement to ensure that the cabin is secure. Obviously this can only be done to the best ability of the crew concerned. It might transpire that something turns out not to be secure (crash from the galley area, hat bin pops open,) however at this point there is little point in rectifying anything until it is safe to do so, and in any event the aircraft isn't going to stop. You shouldn't shout anything. Pushing the call button might draw the crews attention, however despite these passengers stupidity, they did it "quickly" and little would probably be served by a PA from the cabin crew, although they might choose to make one anyway.

2. Landing a few mins out of LHR the cabin crew ask a passenger from the rear of the plane to take up a seat next to mine. Does not remind pax that the seat belt light is on and should belt up properly. I had to remind the pax at 5 seconds to go to put her belt on, as I did not want to be head butted by her should we bounce!! Other PAX had not had inclined chairs returned to the upright possiton.

Crew are responsible for ensuring that the cabin is secure prior to landing and must pass this check on to the Captain who carries the legal responsibility for ensuring this check is completed. If there is a subsequent change then that crewmember should have ensured the validity is maintained by checking the moved passenger, was in fact secure. Seat backs should be returned to the upright position and this usually forms part of the security check. Taking off and landing are obviously the two principle times that an evacuation may be ordered. All reasonable steps should be carried out to ensure that nothing impedes any possible route of evacuation. Some countries and some airlines seem to take a wider and more relaxed view of how this might be achieved.

[Jofm5]

Bealzebub is correct, the cabin crew have more than likely noticed what is going on - for them to make a call over the PA may delay those people making themselves safe so it probably wont be made (but words will be had after), likewise a call to the flight deck on take off/land must never be made to the flight deck unless it is critical to flight safety as that is when the crews workload is at their peak and the distraction could compromise safety.

I do agree as a passenger we see so many rules being broken by those that think they know better, e.g. ignoring safety briefings, moving about when seatbelt sign is on and thinking because they travel alot they know the score - if they read the aviation herald for a month or so they would see just how many people do get injured for not following the safety notices.

Its not our job as passengers to interfere with the safety of the plane as we are not fully briefed in what they may be, indeed doing so may compromise safety - but the cabin crews are there primarily for our safety (not to serve coffee). As harsh as it sounds look after yourself, follow the guidelines and where possible try minimise any potential hazards from those idiots, by all means remind the person next to you of their obligations. Leave the safety of the plane in the hands of those that have been trained to identify what is an iminent danger and what is foolhardy or you could be just adding to the problem.

[clareprop]

I work on the basis that the pilots are extremely well trained to fly the plane and the cabin crew equally well to run it safely and to provide a professional service to passengers.
If a member of the CC is having trouble with an errant passenger (which in 30 years of flying I have never seen), I would try to help if requested.
Otherwise, I would keep my nose out of it on the basis I could be viewed as a sanctimonious prig.

[Capetonian]

I was on a LPL JER (Eazy) once and there was a big group of fat loud mouthed chavy women on their way to a hen party. They'd been loud and disrespectful towards the crew and other pax all the way down.

As we were on short finals one was stood up in the aisle reaching into the overhead lockers. It was a particularly nasty sight as she was about two rows ahead of me and as her crop top and short skirt rode up they exposed acres of tattooed pudgy flab and grubby underwear.

I told her she should be seated as the seat belt signs were on, the words were barely out of my mouth when a FA announced : "Some of you may not be aware that we are about to land, that the seats belt lights are on, and that you should be in your seats with seat belts fastened"

Chav carries on and next a FA shouts (not even over the Intercom) : "This means the fat woman in the black top!".

Everyone applauded! I just hope the FA did not get into trouble.

[Avman]

If I'm sitting at a window or (God forbid) a middle seat in Sardine Class, I make sure that nothing potentially interferes with my making a quick evacuation if the need arises. I do not hesitate to inform the offender (politely but firmly). I recently had a young woman doing her crossword with the tray table down as we lined up. She'd put it down after the CC had done their cabin check. I deliberately waited until line up to give her a chance to take her own initiative. Then, realising that she had no intention of doing so, I told her politely but very firmly to comply with the safety regulations and put her table up in the interest of my safety. She gave me a sigh, but did so. I thanked her and took the opportunity to explain the reason behind the requirement.

[Papa Sierra]

Avman,
You are so right, I have no hestitation in "reminding" anyone seated near to me to do exactly as they are told over the PA. Am I an interfering busybody? I think not, examples you have given, tables down etc, impact directly on my ability to exit the aircraft in the event of an emergency evacuation. I have even spoken to pax seated next to me who take their shoes off prior to T/O, but in this instance have "conversationally" explained that in an emergency they could:
a. Be fannying around looking for their shoes.
b. Cluttering up the floor/aisles.
c. Liable to damaging their feet if they go without shoes.
I do feel strongly that should you feel your own safety is comprimised you have a right to speak out.

[Paracab]

On a recent flight I could see a guy a few rows ahead chatting on his mobile during the taxi out and then a lady got up and rummaged in the overhead locker.. just as take off power was set! One of the cabin crew had the savvy to rapidly unstrap, get her sat down again and then get secured in her own seat in record time. Astonishing.

[Nicholas49]

Slightly off topic but a very similar point.

On a recent flight out of Stansted, a passenger in the row in front of me answered a mobile phone call as we were taxiing onto the runway. I wasn't sure what to do, I thought about trying to summon the cabin crew using the call button but before I could do so the take-off roll had begun and, I figured, there was nothing they or I could now do. He answered a second call shortly after take-off and that time an FA told him to turn it off.

What do the professionals think I should have done in that situation?

(Paracab - I've just read your post properly! I'm not alone it seems.)

[Papa Sierra]

Nick,
First of all you are right in so much as there was nothing you could do about it, to have "reacted" could have turned flounting of the rules into a "situation"! Secondly I am quite open minded about the actual effect of mobile phones on a/c nav systems, simply because if it was that important/dangerous mobile phones would be banned/confiscated before departure I certainly wouldn't trust all pax to do as they are asked, just as you highlighted!!

[apaddyinuk]

There really is no point in "summoning cabin crew with the call button" when the aircraft is about to take off or land because simply, the crew will not respond as they too must be seated and belted at a specific time!

At the end of the day protect yourselves. If you see someone doing something that may be a hazard to you in an accident be polite but ask them to correct themselves. You lot in here are seasoned travellers, you are enthusiasts and know the score but the vast VAST majority of people who travel really havent a clue and think the safety demo is just there to entertain them during the boring period after the doors have closed and before the movies are switched on.

If we showed an episode of air crash investigator instead it may perhaps change a few peoples attitudes but that is not likely to happen any time soon! Nor will having naked cabin crew with body paint uniforms doing a demo for that matter!

[radio ears]

I wonder would it be worth pening a note to the airline concerned regarding the 2nd point above, particularly as they left the obervation slot closed in the advanced economy class closed?

Would it also be an idea if I saw such things again to have a word with the chief purser at disembark or would they think naff off?

[Papa Sierra]

Radioears,

Do both but ensure that you let the Chief Purser know that you are also writing to the Airline.