Short Haul Premium class travel
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Short Haul Premium class travel
As flaps forty has closed the Self upgrade SLF thread, I thought it might be an idea to explore a similar topic further.
I remain puzzled as to the difference between short haul business class and economy class ? I have never flown anything other than standard class on short haul flights but have been on carriers which have two seating areas. These are usually designated by curtain on a slider which can be moved up or down the cabin depending on numbers. Does that mean there is no difference is legroom? I presume that there isn't time to adjust seatting pitch for each flight.
I can easily identify the advantages of paying for business /first on longhaul, where space and sleeper beds are no the norm but, is it really worth it for short haul?
I can understand why airlines persist in offering the premium class service because the economics are compelling but for the passengers what do they get that is actually any different? Is it just kudos and a very expensive bottle of wine?
I remain puzzled as to the difference between short haul business class and economy class ? I have never flown anything other than standard class on short haul flights but have been on carriers which have two seating areas. These are usually designated by curtain on a slider which can be moved up or down the cabin depending on numbers. Does that mean there is no difference is legroom? I presume that there isn't time to adjust seatting pitch for each flight.
I can easily identify the advantages of paying for business /first on longhaul, where space and sleeper beds are no the norm but, is it really worth it for short haul?
I can understand why airlines persist in offering the premium class service because the economics are compelling but for the passengers what do they get that is actually any different? Is it just kudos and a very expensive bottle of wine?
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It can be worthwhile checking the business class price of a ticket if the economy ticket price is substantial.
I traveled regularly to LHR and more often than not the C class fare would be lower than the Y fare and the business cabin virtually empty with a full Y cabin!
The booking engine on the airline website, if you selected "cheapest fare" would give you the "cheapest economy fare".
I traveled regularly to LHR and more often than not the C class fare would be lower than the Y fare and the business cabin virtually empty with a full Y cabin!
The booking engine on the airline website, if you selected "cheapest fare" would give you the "cheapest economy fare".
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Does that mean there is no difference is legroom?
Apart from seat pitch the main benefit of short haul premium class is the possibility of coming back the same day and changing bookings as you please. Access to premium class checkin and security is also a very useful benefit, but frequent flyers have access to this anyway with any ticket. Access to lounges is generally a disappointment.
Onboard usually all you get is some dubious food that you don't eat and a free newspaper you read umpteen hours before on your iPhone. You might also get a free drink that you really don't fancy at 6am.
I'm often-SLF, trespassing in the CC area here, but one thing to understand is that there is not just one standard of Premium Class travel, but each carrier does their own thing, and standards differ.
Nowadays the key differentiator in Premium travel is the ability to access the lounge beforehand, particularly where you are on a carrier who does not give you access with frequent flyer status. The same applies to bag drop facilities. Yes, if you are taking a laptop and a computer projector plus a couple of suits you need to go to a desk, hopefully the one without a 45-minute queue.
Some carriers supply meals to premium pax only, which are a benefit significantly appreciated by those who between 05.30 and 22.00 in the day are either driving to/from the airport at both ends of the flight, giving their day-long presenation, or spending their "lunch" break on interminable phone calls, etc.
It is not normal to provide 6-across seating on Business Class. BA do on domestic flights, but the fares sometimes do not differ much and are driven more by yield management, and the discovery that when booking on the day Premium is all that is available. Elsewhere adaptable seating units that can be reconfigured have come (and to some extent gone again). Adaptable seats get round the problem that premium demand varies significantly by route, time of day and day of week, and a fixed seating arrangement is wasteful. Unfortunately they have never been anything other than a second-best compromise, which spending 4 hours in the CENTRE seat of a BA A320 adapted to 2-3 for Business class on London-Moscow at £2,000 return only reinforces. Meanwhile Aeroflot have proper 2-2 seating, cheaper fares, caviar canapes, etc, and bring us back to the original point that standards vary widely between carriers.
Nowadays the key differentiator in Premium travel is the ability to access the lounge beforehand, particularly where you are on a carrier who does not give you access with frequent flyer status. The same applies to bag drop facilities. Yes, if you are taking a laptop and a computer projector plus a couple of suits you need to go to a desk, hopefully the one without a 45-minute queue.
Some carriers supply meals to premium pax only, which are a benefit significantly appreciated by those who between 05.30 and 22.00 in the day are either driving to/from the airport at both ends of the flight, giving their day-long presenation, or spending their "lunch" break on interminable phone calls, etc.
It is not normal to provide 6-across seating on Business Class. BA do on domestic flights, but the fares sometimes do not differ much and are driven more by yield management, and the discovery that when booking on the day Premium is all that is available. Elsewhere adaptable seating units that can be reconfigured have come (and to some extent gone again). Adaptable seats get round the problem that premium demand varies significantly by route, time of day and day of week, and a fixed seating arrangement is wasteful. Unfortunately they have never been anything other than a second-best compromise, which spending 4 hours in the CENTRE seat of a BA A320 adapted to 2-3 for Business class on London-Moscow at £2,000 return only reinforces. Meanwhile Aeroflot have proper 2-2 seating, cheaper fares, caviar canapes, etc, and bring us back to the original point that standards vary widely between carriers.
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It's only worth shelling out on if the product is worth it and that usually depends on the equipment operating the flight. I went from Doha to Muscat with QR in business on their magnificently comfortable A320. Not lie-flat but proper big old style C seating and silver service. By comparison my friend went business with AF to Beirut and ended up on one of their A320's which meant Y seating but behind a curtain with a free glass of orange juice. On the way back he went on a 777 and hey presto silver service again. Check what you're flying on. Most European airlines narrowbody business ain't really business at all!
You are correct and not correct. BA will sell you C class tickets on domestic (in fact sometimes for the next flight out that is all they have), but there is no separate cabin, you sit all mixed in 6-across in the cabin, but your C class ticket will allow admission to the lounge.
So configuration, and service in the cabin, no they don't, but ticketing class, pricing, and pre-departure facilities, yes they do.
So configuration, and service in the cabin, no they don't, but ticketing class, pricing, and pre-departure facilities, yes they do.
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The class is called Domestic, diff in ticket price relates to the fully flexible ticket. It is not described as a club class ticket because there is no club class on the domestic routes. All domestic services have just one class of travel.
Try booking a club class ticket on BA.COM and you will see there is no option to do so, the only option is to purchase a more expensive fully flexible ticket.
Try booking a club class ticket on BA.COM and you will see there is no option to do so, the only option is to purchase a more expensive fully flexible ticket.
It's more apparent than BMI on the same route, where some Y tickets do get you in the lounge and some do not, in a way I have not yet got to the bottom of.
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My wife bought a domestic ticket today in connection with her employment. The on-line booking offered her secretary a standard fare and an option to upgrade to a fully flexible ticket. Perhaps a C is shown on only the fully flexible ticket to indicate executive lounge access. I do not know I am just guessing. I will look at my wife's ticket to see what the class is shown on her e ticket when she gets home from work.
The class of travel on the booking system is shown as UK Domestic.
Perhaps someone who works in reservation can explain why C is shown on tickets if that does not indicate Club. One thing is for sure there is no seperated club cabin on any of the domestic services and has not been since the shuttle type services operated.
The class of travel on the booking system is shown as UK Domestic.
Perhaps someone who works in reservation can explain why C is shown on tickets if that does not indicate Club. One thing is for sure there is no seperated club cabin on any of the domestic services and has not been since the shuttle type services operated.
The main point about BA club Europe for me is the meal. Being diabetic, i need a meal, not a sandwich. Going Club means that I can leave the office in Stockholm at 1830, rather than about 1300. With my time charged at $150 an hour (I wish I got that!), business class makes sense.
Sometimes, though, the last flight from Nice on a Friday is so popular that the fare is more than twice the usual,- in all classes, and it works out cheaper to stay overnight in Juan les Pins.
I figure that airfare pricing is an arcane art, and Relativity, quantum mechanics and advanced mathematics are more easily understood.
Sometimes, though, the last flight from Nice on a Friday is so popular that the fare is more than twice the usual,- in all classes, and it works out cheaper to stay overnight in Juan les Pins.
I figure that airfare pricing is an arcane art, and Relativity, quantum mechanics and advanced mathematics are more easily understood.
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manintheback-BA have changed their policy due to customer feedback, not because of the economy 
and yes, it is a permanent setup. At least until they decide to change it again 
and yes, it is a permanent setup. At least until they decide to change it again
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The reason most (business) people buy C class tickets is for flexibility (i.e changeable/refundable tickets) and a small amount of extra comfort, usually in the form of a free middle seat, perhaps the odd extra inch or two pitch in the first 4-5 rows.
Some of us who travel frequently also have corporate deals, so these tickets, whilst substantially more than a discounted M/S/T etc class fare are usually rather less expensive than a Y(early) ticket, as previously pointed out by TRSS.
Also, we get more luggage allowance and usually fast track security clearance which really makes a difference at some airports (e.g. ZRH, but not at London), meaning that you can often get another 30-45 mins with your client, which is often more important that it may sound.
As to service on board, yep a few more free drinks (if you need them) and a better meal, but that's not really the differentiator.
I'll pay for the service on business, but on hols I'll take economy every time.
Some of us who travel frequently also have corporate deals, so these tickets, whilst substantially more than a discounted M/S/T etc class fare are usually rather less expensive than a Y(early) ticket, as previously pointed out by TRSS.
Also, we get more luggage allowance and usually fast track security clearance which really makes a difference at some airports (e.g. ZRH, but not at London), meaning that you can often get another 30-45 mins with your client, which is often more important that it may sound.
As to service on board, yep a few more free drinks (if you need them) and a better meal, but that's not really the differentiator.
I'll pay for the service on business, but on hols I'll take economy every time.
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Don't forget that some (many?) people only fly short-haul business or first as part of a long-haul ticket. For example, to stay with a Skyteam carrier, I often fly AF in business from JFK to CDG and then onwards in business to another destination. I probably wouldn't have purchased that CDG-onward flight in business, but it was included in the business fare for the entire long-haul flight.
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bmi
As I only ever travel economy I'm not sure whether bmi still offer wider business class seating but I do remember noticing on some of the aircraft travelling between BHD and LHR rows with just two seats and what appeared to be one squashed up in the middle. I also remember seeing a cabin crew member with some kind of winding mechanism which seemed to transform this seating arrangement from two to three. Am I correct or had I been just a little too long in the bar before boarding?
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LHR-BHD sees either a short haul aircraft or a mid haul aircraft. The short haul have 3 seats either side of the aisle. The ABC seats squash together to make two wider seats A C and a narrow seat in the middle (which isn't sold). The DEF seats pull apart to make each of the 3 seats wider. There is no winding mechanism, just a lever on the side of the seat unit which is moved to release the mechanism, the seats either pushed or pulled and then the lever is locked. The mis haul aircraft used infrequently have proper 2x2 business class seats with leg rests and 50 inch seat pitch. These obviouslt cannot be converted into economy seats.
I see the differences between business and economy in short haul travel as:
Lounge access
More and/or better in-flight food and drink
Sometimes more legroom and a gap "seat" between you and the next passenger
Priority baggage transfer (sometimes)
Priority for flight changes if your flight is delayed
More ticket flexibility (sometimes)
More points on your card
Depends on the airline and aircraft concerned, as well as the flight length and who is buying my ticket, but it can work out to be "better value" to pay more for business more often than not.
Lounge access
More and/or better in-flight food and drink
Sometimes more legroom and a gap "seat" between you and the next passenger
Priority baggage transfer (sometimes)
Priority for flight changes if your flight is delayed
More ticket flexibility (sometimes)
More points on your card
Depends on the airline and aircraft concerned, as well as the flight length and who is buying my ticket, but it can work out to be "better value" to pay more for business more often than not.
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BMI Shorthaul Ecomony/Business
With BMI a flexible economy ticket will get you into the lounge, but after that you're back to economy service (albeit with a sausage sandwich if you're on a morning flight - afternoon travellers get a disappointing 2.5 pretzels). With a business ticket (restricted or flexible) you get into the lounge, a cooked meal (of sorts), alcohol, hot towels and priority baggage. I've noticed the cc are sometimes disbelieving if you politely decline a cooked meal - sometimes you just want to snooze frankly - particularly if you've partaken in the better facilities in the Diamond Club lounge, as opposed to the main business lounge.