How close was I to becoming a death statistic?
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How close was I to becoming a death statistic?
I was a passenger aboard a flight from Stansted (London) to Antalya (Turkey)on March 12th 2008. I preface this note with the statement that I am not a nervous flyer, I am a business flyer who travels in excess of 40 flights per year and have done so for the past 20 years. During this time, I have experienced a variety of phenomenon associated with flying as a passenger on scheduled and charter flights. Its also worth saying that I’m no armchair pilot either.
The aircraft we flew in that day was a Boeing 737 series 800 aircraft. I was seated in seat 29F. This was a scheduled flight with a Turkish airline.
We departed from Stansted late.
When we commenced our descent for landing at Antalya the flight was perfectly normal.
As we started to descend into Antalya bright lightning flashes were visible and hammer heads of nearby clouds were easily seen in the flashes.
The descent continued and pretty soon we found ourselves on finals in the midst of a particularly violent electrical storm.I guess we were about 1500 feet high at this stage. The aircraft was pitched about violently. Significantly more so than I have ever experienced in over 20 years of flying as a commercial passenger. There were both significant and violent falls and increases in height, airspeed and direction. Heaviness and lightness sensations in the seat like I have never experienced before The flight crew continued their approach notwithstanding the increased tempo of the storm.
By this stage passengers throughout the aircraft were screaming. Many around me were vomiting. Almost all were clearly scared. As indeed was I. The overwhelming smell in the cabin was of vomit and excreta. Overhead lockers started popping open and baggage rained down.
The approach continued and the aircraft continued to buck and started to roll to the right accompanied by screaming engines et al.We were much lower by this stage - I guess no more than 250-500 feet. At one stage I looked down on street lights and cars at a height whereby details of the cars below (ie the occupants were visible to me). The aircraft wings seemed to be at 90 degrees to the ground at this stage. Lightning and heavy rain were constant and the aircraft was evidently being buffeted by severe winds of a vertical as well as horizontal direction. The fuselage was bucking in both vertical and horizontal planes. the movement was sufficient to throw passengers from their seats who were not buckled in.
To cap it all - at this stage the cabin crew immediately behind me were saying prayers!
I could see that vertical movement of the wings was constant and it was self evident that we stood no chance of a successful landing in such conditions. Finally we pulled away and started to climb - rapidly. Our route however took us into even greater turbulent air.
The person flying the aircraft made 2 attempts to land in these appalling conditions and (I feel) luckily avoided catastrophe before finally deciding to abandon his attempts and fly his now terrified passengers to Ercan in Northern Cyprus.
On arrival at Ercan, many passengers were so scared that they were unable to stand. Many were visibly shaking and very distressed. When I left the aircraft via the front entrance, my route took me along a path of seats and cabin carpet badly soiled with vomit and excreta.
I am puzzled by flight deck behavior and wonder whether we were placed at unnecessary risk. As a passenger, it seems to me that the fact that the attempts to land were abandoned and the flight diverted to its ultimate destination of Ercan, is an indication that all was far from well on the flight deck. However, I may be wrong.
For what its worth, (and it may not be much,) my own feelings are our survival was due to the design engineers and the guys on the shopfloor at the Boeing Aircraft Company. Looking back I was amazed that any structure could withstand what was thrown at us that evening. However, are my congratulations misplaced? Should I thank the flightcrew? What do any pilots think?
The aircraft we flew in that day was a Boeing 737 series 800 aircraft. I was seated in seat 29F. This was a scheduled flight with a Turkish airline.
We departed from Stansted late.
When we commenced our descent for landing at Antalya the flight was perfectly normal.
As we started to descend into Antalya bright lightning flashes were visible and hammer heads of nearby clouds were easily seen in the flashes.
The descent continued and pretty soon we found ourselves on finals in the midst of a particularly violent electrical storm.I guess we were about 1500 feet high at this stage. The aircraft was pitched about violently. Significantly more so than I have ever experienced in over 20 years of flying as a commercial passenger. There were both significant and violent falls and increases in height, airspeed and direction. Heaviness and lightness sensations in the seat like I have never experienced before The flight crew continued their approach notwithstanding the increased tempo of the storm.
By this stage passengers throughout the aircraft were screaming. Many around me were vomiting. Almost all were clearly scared. As indeed was I. The overwhelming smell in the cabin was of vomit and excreta. Overhead lockers started popping open and baggage rained down.
The approach continued and the aircraft continued to buck and started to roll to the right accompanied by screaming engines et al.We were much lower by this stage - I guess no more than 250-500 feet. At one stage I looked down on street lights and cars at a height whereby details of the cars below (ie the occupants were visible to me). The aircraft wings seemed to be at 90 degrees to the ground at this stage. Lightning and heavy rain were constant and the aircraft was evidently being buffeted by severe winds of a vertical as well as horizontal direction. The fuselage was bucking in both vertical and horizontal planes. the movement was sufficient to throw passengers from their seats who were not buckled in.
To cap it all - at this stage the cabin crew immediately behind me were saying prayers!
I could see that vertical movement of the wings was constant and it was self evident that we stood no chance of a successful landing in such conditions. Finally we pulled away and started to climb - rapidly. Our route however took us into even greater turbulent air.
The person flying the aircraft made 2 attempts to land in these appalling conditions and (I feel) luckily avoided catastrophe before finally deciding to abandon his attempts and fly his now terrified passengers to Ercan in Northern Cyprus.
On arrival at Ercan, many passengers were so scared that they were unable to stand. Many were visibly shaking and very distressed. When I left the aircraft via the front entrance, my route took me along a path of seats and cabin carpet badly soiled with vomit and excreta.
I am puzzled by flight deck behavior and wonder whether we were placed at unnecessary risk. As a passenger, it seems to me that the fact that the attempts to land were abandoned and the flight diverted to its ultimate destination of Ercan, is an indication that all was far from well on the flight deck. However, I may be wrong.
For what its worth, (and it may not be much,) my own feelings are our survival was due to the design engineers and the guys on the shopfloor at the Boeing Aircraft Company. Looking back I was amazed that any structure could withstand what was thrown at us that evening. However, are my congratulations misplaced? Should I thank the flightcrew? What do any pilots think?
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"I guess we were about 1500 feet high"
"...I guess we were about 1500 feet high"
"I guess no more than 250-500 feet"
"The aircraft wings seemed to be at 90 degrees to the ground"
"buffeted by severe winds of a vertical as well as horizontal direction"
"we stood no chance of a successful landing in such conditions"
I can't wait till Rainboe get hold of you with statements like this!
"...I guess we were about 1500 feet high"
"I guess no more than 250-500 feet"
"The aircraft wings seemed to be at 90 degrees to the ground"
"buffeted by severe winds of a vertical as well as horizontal direction"
"we stood no chance of a successful landing in such conditions"
I can't wait till Rainboe get hold of you with statements like this!
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"I guess we were about 1500 feet high"
"...I guess we were about 1500 feet high"
"I guess no more than 250-500 feet"
"The aircraft wings seemed to be at 90 degrees to the ground"
"buffeted by severe winds of a vertical as well as horizontal direction"
"we stood no chance of a successful landing in such conditions"
I can't wait till Rainboe get hold of you with statements like this!
"...I guess we were about 1500 feet high"
"I guess no more than 250-500 feet"
"The aircraft wings seemed to be at 90 degrees to the ground"
"buffeted by severe winds of a vertical as well as horizontal direction"
"we stood no chance of a successful landing in such conditions"
I can't wait till Rainboe get hold of you with statements like this!
I'm not an expert but I will say this - if I was in your situation I would have probably joined the other 130 or so passengers saying their final prayers. However, commercial aircraft made by any manufacturer (not just Boeing!) are designed to withstand a hell of a lot of abuse. If they weren't, no authority would allow them off the ground. Air travel remains by far the safest mode of travel possible on this planet despite recent events giving air accidents a high profile.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Oh God, where do I start? First, ALL your impressions of bank angles, speed and attitude are NOT TO BE TRUSTED! You sound like those cruise passengers who go to sea and get caught in a bad storm, and then sue the cruise line! Good heavens, storms at sea? Well I never! Someone needs to say to them 'YOU went to sea. Storms happen, get over it!'. Aeroplanes can take a tremendous amount of battering. they are designed for it, and take it repeatedly. You want to know about turbulence? I can tell you about turbulence! When it's so bad the pilots cannot see the instruments, let alone read what's on them, then it's bad. The pilots sound to me like they did a damn good job and tried everywhich way but loose to try and get you to your destination. It's not pleasant flying in that sort of weather, but they tried their very best to avoid taking you elsewhere. I have been caught like that and tried as well, before diverting when it got too bad. You did not have a close brush with Mr Death. Those pilots have got families and dogs and mortgages as well as you. They do this for a living. It's not easy sometimes- that's when the men are separated from the boys. There are nations where I wouldn't want what happened that night, but Turkey is not one of them. Another central African nation did something similar and wasn't successful. They have the Rainboe seal of approval!
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How unsafe is flying...?
Hola burdenben -
xxx
A retired pilot now, I flew since age 15 until 65... 50 years of my life, and logged some 23,800 hours. Add to the pilot flight time, the numerous trips I had to complete "dead-head" as passenger to position to/from other airports, sometimes half-way around the world, and the few trips I took for vacations. And I am still alive.
xxx
When I got married, as my life insurance paid by my airline was somewhat minimal (1 year of my pilot salary), I called my insurance agent to get an additional life insurance coverage, and expected to pay high premiums.
xxx
I recall the insurance I got, covered me for any and all commercial flying I would do as pilot crewmember or as passenger. It would not cover me for private flying or military flying. I also recall that the insurance did not cover me for riding motorcycles, nor skydiving, nor driving race cars. The only limitation, I would not be covered for any case of terrorism or act of war involving my airplane.
xxx
When a few days later, the agent informed me of the premiums, we both were surprised. My "risk rate" was the same as an office employee, school teacher, or pharmacist, etc. I took a hefty coverage, my wife would have been a merry widow.
xxx
My question to you, now is this -
Who knows best of the statistics of death rates of people....?
I believe, it is life insurance companies who are definitely the experts of your chances of dying from airplane accidents. And apparently, the airline pilots are excellent risks, and appreciated customers by insurances.
xxx
So as far as I am concerned, your 40 flights yearly, represent quite a bit of flying, yes, but definitely not exceeding the amount of flying I did myself. In an airplane you are safe. The worst danger in my career as pilot was the driving I did, from home to airport and back.
xxx
I was not a "hero" nor an "ace" when flying, and was careful, stayed away from dangerous conditions, as I wanted to land my airplane safely, and stay alive. If my passengers were safe, is merely because I did not want to die. After all, pilots are first to reach the site of airplane accidents, is it...?
xxx
Happy contrails
xxx
A retired pilot now, I flew since age 15 until 65... 50 years of my life, and logged some 23,800 hours. Add to the pilot flight time, the numerous trips I had to complete "dead-head" as passenger to position to/from other airports, sometimes half-way around the world, and the few trips I took for vacations. And I am still alive.
xxx
When I got married, as my life insurance paid by my airline was somewhat minimal (1 year of my pilot salary), I called my insurance agent to get an additional life insurance coverage, and expected to pay high premiums.
xxx
I recall the insurance I got, covered me for any and all commercial flying I would do as pilot crewmember or as passenger. It would not cover me for private flying or military flying. I also recall that the insurance did not cover me for riding motorcycles, nor skydiving, nor driving race cars. The only limitation, I would not be covered for any case of terrorism or act of war involving my airplane.
xxx
When a few days later, the agent informed me of the premiums, we both were surprised. My "risk rate" was the same as an office employee, school teacher, or pharmacist, etc. I took a hefty coverage, my wife would have been a merry widow.
xxx
My question to you, now is this -
Who knows best of the statistics of death rates of people....?
I believe, it is life insurance companies who are definitely the experts of your chances of dying from airplane accidents. And apparently, the airline pilots are excellent risks, and appreciated customers by insurances.
xxx
So as far as I am concerned, your 40 flights yearly, represent quite a bit of flying, yes, but definitely not exceeding the amount of flying I did myself. In an airplane you are safe. The worst danger in my career as pilot was the driving I did, from home to airport and back.
xxx
I was not a "hero" nor an "ace" when flying, and was careful, stayed away from dangerous conditions, as I wanted to land my airplane safely, and stay alive. If my passengers were safe, is merely because I did not want to die. After all, pilots are first to reach the site of airplane accidents, is it...?
xxx
Happy contrails
Paxing All Over The World
At the moment, burdenben, I think the only danger you are in is of me calling your bluff. If I am wrong, and your experience is as nerve jangling as you state, then I am sorry BUT this all sounds too much.
It reads like a 'Troll' which is the term for when someone writes in a public forum with the deliberate intention to 'wind-up' the regulars. You have put in just about every possible adjective and pushed my belief further than the wing is supposed to have gone. As a first time visitor to the forum, do not be surprised that your over the top story receives a ride almost as rough as the one you describe.
It reads like a 'Troll' which is the term for when someone writes in a public forum with the deliberate intention to 'wind-up' the regulars. You have put in just about every possible adjective and pushed my belief further than the wing is supposed to have gone. As a first time visitor to the forum, do not be surprised that your over the top story receives a ride almost as rough as the one you describe.
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I've been flying for some time now, with a fairly wide variety of experience as a background. Among that experience is atmospheric research intentionally penetrating thunderstorms and convective weather. I've spent a lot of time at low altitudes in mountainous terrain in severe turbulence, too.
I have to say I've never encountered quite the fantastic tale described by the original poster. Vomit and excrement, flight attendants praying, people flying from their seats, "hammerheads," and the four horses of the apocalypse, all rolled into one. Truly a terrifying tale.
I've been through thunderstorm cells that quieted engines, broke equipment on board, and physically hurt...once even broke headsets work by crewmembers. I've had lightening burns that melted holes all over the airplane, burned through control hinges, and blew holes in control surfaces and other parts of the airplane, as well as blowing out holes in the radome. I've been through severe windshear encounters, severe icing, violent turbulence, rain and weather that attenuated radar, hail, dust storms and sand storms, and all sorts of other phenomena. I was once on a low level run so violent it ejected the flight engineer. I've never seen the kind of thing described by the original poster, however...and personally find it to be somewhat animated, and rather short on believability.
It makes for a fanciful story, though. I hope you took pictures.
I have to say I've never encountered quite the fantastic tale described by the original poster. Vomit and excrement, flight attendants praying, people flying from their seats, "hammerheads," and the four horses of the apocalypse, all rolled into one. Truly a terrifying tale.
I've been through thunderstorm cells that quieted engines, broke equipment on board, and physically hurt...once even broke headsets work by crewmembers. I've had lightening burns that melted holes all over the airplane, burned through control hinges, and blew holes in control surfaces and other parts of the airplane, as well as blowing out holes in the radome. I've been through severe windshear encounters, severe icing, violent turbulence, rain and weather that attenuated radar, hail, dust storms and sand storms, and all sorts of other phenomena. I was once on a low level run so violent it ejected the flight engineer. I've never seen the kind of thing described by the original poster, however...and personally find it to be somewhat animated, and rather short on believability.
It makes for a fanciful story, though. I hope you took pictures.
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There I was, upside down, nothing on the clock but the makers name..and that was in Japanese....
Very well written, good quality bait.
Now, pull up a sandbag, swing the lamp and let me tell you about the night I was approaching Wellington, New Zealand..backwards..
Very well written, good quality bait.
Now, pull up a sandbag, swing the lamp and let me tell you about the night I was approaching Wellington, New Zealand..backwards..
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burdenben - welcome to PPRuNe
May I ask you to do a bit of searching and reading on this and forums. This will give you an idea of why your post may be considered controversial.
Then come back if you need and try again.
May I ask you to do a bit of searching and reading on this and forums. This will give you an idea of why your post may be considered controversial.
Then come back if you need and try again.
