BA group e-ticket problem
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BA group e-ticket problem
Mrs PV and I were on holiday in Africa over Christmas. The tour company had purchased a group e-ticket and there were 14 of us flying direct from T5 in World Traveller. There were no problems on the outbound leg (except that on-line check-in doesn't work for group* tickets), but when we returned to our African airport two weeks later, we were told by the local staff that all the tickets were showing as 'cancelled' and that (as the 747 was already overbooked by 4) there was no chance of us flying (the next day's flight was almost full as well).
Our tour operator (a large, reputable, up-market, British company) were adamant that this had never happened to them before and strongly indicated that the problem was at the BA end and that they had done everything correctly (except, maybe, for checking the night before we left - but what could have been done anyway, since the flight was full?). This is supported by my possession of a BA e-ticket receipt for the eventual, indirect** return leg bearing the endorsement "INVOL REROUTE" and "FARE GBP 0.00".
I should say that (as far as we are concerned) we got an extra day by the pool with all meals and a free tour of the old quarter thrown in, so we had no cause for complaint. My only question, for any ticketing gurus out there, is: how could this have happened? The African check-in supervisor told us that the tickets had been cancelled 'months ago' - I'm in no position to dispute what was showing on his screen, but obviously this can't have been the case or we wouldn't have been able to fly outbound. I remember in the days of paper tickets that you needed to confirm the return leg 24 hours in advance, but my understanding is that this is no longer required for e-tickets.
Any ideas?
* I don't see why this needs to be the case, but even though my individual details (including exec club) are on the e-ticket, any attempt to use OLCI generates a 'group ticket:not allowed' message. I thought BA wanted us all to use OLCI whenever possible?
** Alitalia via Roma Fiumicino - to be the subject of a future thread ...
Our tour operator (a large, reputable, up-market, British company) were adamant that this had never happened to them before and strongly indicated that the problem was at the BA end and that they had done everything correctly (except, maybe, for checking the night before we left - but what could have been done anyway, since the flight was full?). This is supported by my possession of a BA e-ticket receipt for the eventual, indirect** return leg bearing the endorsement "INVOL REROUTE" and "FARE GBP 0.00".
I should say that (as far as we are concerned) we got an extra day by the pool with all meals and a free tour of the old quarter thrown in, so we had no cause for complaint. My only question, for any ticketing gurus out there, is: how could this have happened? The African check-in supervisor told us that the tickets had been cancelled 'months ago' - I'm in no position to dispute what was showing on his screen, but obviously this can't have been the case or we wouldn't have been able to fly outbound. I remember in the days of paper tickets that you needed to confirm the return leg 24 hours in advance, but my understanding is that this is no longer required for e-tickets.
Any ideas?
* I don't see why this needs to be the case, but even though my individual details (including exec club) are on the e-ticket, any attempt to use OLCI generates a 'group ticket:not allowed' message. I thought BA wanted us all to use OLCI whenever possible?
** Alitalia via Roma Fiumicino - to be the subject of a future thread ...
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WHBM - I agree that it sounds like an excuse, but didn't want to call anyone a liar without evidence. Admittedly, the fact that we successfully flew out sounds like pretty strong evidence to me that the tickets had not been cancelled!
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Presumably some checks are made and records are kept of the person or mechanisim by which they are canceled?... or can anyone just phone up and cancel another persons ticket? If that's the case, next time I need to get on a flight that's full I'll call up to cancel all the Smiths and Jones. 
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I suspect the clue lies here
and gives the real problem as opposed to a likely made up excuse
Most of the FFliers I know will always say 'I flew Alitalia once'. There never appears to be a second time. Understandable.
as the 747 was already overbooked by 4
** Alitalia via Roma Fiumicino - to be the subject of a future thread ...
Paxing All Over The World
I've not had the misfortune to be in this situation but I certainly agree that 'overbooked' and "We can ditch 14 at a stroke" sounds like too good an opportunity to be missed. You are certainly lucky that you were with (a large, reputable, up-market, British company) otherwise, you would still be on the banana boat.
This sounds like a loophole through which many others will fall as e-tickets become the standard.
This sounds like a loophole through which many others will fall as e-tickets become the standard.
For a moment forget e-tickets. For many years airlines have been practicing "flight firming". Basically this means that every reservation must have a ticket number attached. If, by a certain date, the reservation has no ticket number a message should be sent to the booking originator saying "ticket by date ddmmm or we'll cancel". If the ticket doesn't appear cancellation follows. It's not new and it's nothing to do with e-tickets.
Groups are an interesting issue. One might assume that if you are travelling with a group all of the flights will be in one booking. While this can be the case it's not always true. For instance I know of one major UK operator who has group bookings for journies via a European hub. The group from the hub to destination and back are on one booking. However, because the passengers come from all of the UK to that hub those bookings are made separately. Despite that, one ticket is issue UK/hub/destination/hub/UK. Then you have the operators who sell holidays of varying durations - some people go for 2 weeks, some for 3, etc. What happens then is that there are lots of one way bookings - for example 30 pax every Thursday AAA-BBB and a separate set of one way bookings every Thursday BBB-AAA. The agent simply allocate passengers to the flights that suit the duration. However each passenger has a ticket AAA-BBB-AAA. There are other scenarios but you get the picture.
Now, when the ticket is issued all of the reservations have to be updated with ticket numbers. The flight firming process should catch the problem, but nothing is perfect.........
Groups are an interesting issue. One might assume that if you are travelling with a group all of the flights will be in one booking. While this can be the case it's not always true. For instance I know of one major UK operator who has group bookings for journies via a European hub. The group from the hub to destination and back are on one booking. However, because the passengers come from all of the UK to that hub those bookings are made separately. Despite that, one ticket is issue UK/hub/destination/hub/UK. Then you have the operators who sell holidays of varying durations - some people go for 2 weeks, some for 3, etc. What happens then is that there are lots of one way bookings - for example 30 pax every Thursday AAA-BBB and a separate set of one way bookings every Thursday BBB-AAA. The agent simply allocate passengers to the flights that suit the duration. However each passenger has a ticket AAA-BBB-AAA. There are other scenarios but you get the picture.
Now, when the ticket is issued all of the reservations have to be updated with ticket numbers. The flight firming process should catch the problem, but nothing is perfect.........
There is statutory consumer protection against overbooking causing denied boarding, just like there is statutory consumer protection for covering reaccommodation costs during substantial delays or last-minute cancellations.
The trouble is, nobody seems to have any oversight of how this is conducted. So airlines who have overbooked can say "Your reservation was cancelled" and there is no apparent oversight if what they say is true. Or you can be told at the check-in desk "Cancelled due to weather so no compensation payable" when it is CAVOK outside and the maintenance crews all at the aircraft with the cowls open is a bit of a giveaway.
So it seems to have become a bit of a standard management game to see what percentage of otherwise-valid statutory compensation can be saved by a bit of Economy with the Truth. Some management seem to be aiming for 100%. Possibly it is part of their bonus incentives nowadays ?
The trouble is, nobody seems to have any oversight of how this is conducted. So airlines who have overbooked can say "Your reservation was cancelled" and there is no apparent oversight if what they say is true. Or you can be told at the check-in desk "Cancelled due to weather so no compensation payable" when it is CAVOK outside and the maintenance crews all at the aircraft with the cowls open is a bit of a giveaway.
So it seems to have become a bit of a standard management game to see what percentage of otherwise-valid statutory compensation can be saved by a bit of Economy with the Truth. Some management seem to be aiming for 100%. Possibly it is part of their bonus incentives nowadays ?
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Thanks for all your replies.
manintheback - yes, this was my second trip on Alitalia. My third will be when the new skating rink opens in the infernal regions. To be fair, I guess you can understand their employees not being too happy given their current circs, but their service has always been cr@p.
Hartington - just to clarify, is the reserve/ticket system confined to travel agents and the like? If I buy a ticket (which these days will be an e-ticket) with my plastic on BA.com, am I in danger of having it cancelled if I don't confirm my travel plans? In practice, I almost always do this by using OLCI, but as I said this isn't possible for group tickets. BTW all 14 of us arrived/departed LHR by surface transport, so no secondary flights were involved.
manintheback - yes, this was my second trip on Alitalia. My third will be when the new skating rink opens in the infernal regions. To be fair, I guess you can understand their employees not being too happy given their current circs, but their service has always been cr@p.
Hartington - just to clarify, is the reserve/ticket system confined to travel agents and the like? If I buy a ticket (which these days will be an e-ticket) with my plastic on BA.com, am I in danger of having it cancelled if I don't confirm my travel plans? In practice, I almost always do this by using OLCI, but as I said this isn't possible for group tickets. BTW all 14 of us arrived/departed LHR by surface transport, so no secondary flights were involved.
The issue about flight firming should not occur when you book and pay for the flight on the airline website or direct on the phone. However, beware. Just because you phone BA and book a BA flight number does not mean you are travelling on a BA flight. The issue of "codesharing" raises its' head. When this occurs BA will send a message to the other airline saying "Mr PV has booked BA1234 which is really your XX4567" and then another one saying "We have issued ticket 1234567890123 for Mr PV on your XX4567 which is also BA1234". In that case issues with flight firming could occur.
That said, the whole flight firming issue is not one that raises its' head very often (in fact it's extremely rare).
The examples I gave of how group bookings work were just that, not intended to be definitive in your case. There are even more possible scenarios.
That said, the whole flight firming issue is not one that raises its' head very often (in fact it's extremely rare).
The examples I gave of how group bookings work were just that, not intended to be definitive in your case. There are even more possible scenarios.
