Smoking in the loo

[Final 3 Greens]

I've just done a Google, nowhere have I found a loss of airframe attributed to a person smoking on an a/c

Which just goes to prove that the system of policing the rule works, despite the massive growth in air travel and should continue to be policed severely.

I am generally anti rules that affect minorities, but in this specific case the rule is clearly fundamental to flight safety.

If you are a smoker and cannot endure a flight without a smoke (I can emphathise), then there are two choices.

1. Seek help to reduce the need to smoke so you can comply
2. Find alternative means of travel

I would impose a mandatory prison sentence for anyone caught smoking on an aircraft, since I regard it as being equal to drink driving and it is not feasible to ban someone from flying.

[PaperTiger]

Originally Posted by Final_3_Greens

I've just done a Google, nowhere have I found a loss of airframe attributed to a person smoking on an a/c

Which just goes to prove that the system of policing the rule works, despite the massive growth in air travel and should continue to be policed severely.

No answer to that really. I bow to the superior and unassailable logic of that statement .

[Layzeeboy]

As a smoker I agree that it should not be allowed anywhere in the cabin. And I remember the days when we could light up in the rear of the cabin. Now, I don't even think about cigarettes in flight.

Many airports have smoking lounges skyside which are a nice convenience and allow you to get a few in before boarding. Surprisingly, some of the airport bars here in the states still allow it. Until about a year ago the UAL Red Carpet Lounge at O'Hare had one. Now on my layovers there (usually twice a week) I go outside. Then, I have to come back through security. Everytime I do it I can't help but think how many of us there are clogging up an already overtaxed security line just for this reason. If they had the smoking room this wouldn't be a problem.

[VAFFPAX]

I distinctly remember when AF still had the 'compromise' of the Clean Air cabin, in which a section near the loos was cordoned off with curtains so that the desperate smokers could indulge in their cancer sticks. However, the problem remained that smoke would inevitably seep out into the main cabin, annoying the poor souls nearest to said section.

Thankfully that practice soon went out the window. I hate to think how bad a smoking section in a plane must've been before the no-smoking policies were in place (back then I didn't gallivant around the world - then I was a desk-bound lackey).

S.

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by VAFFPAX

I hate to think how bad a smoking section in a plane must've been before the no-smoking policies were in place

On a 707 type with heavy, unrestricted, continental smokers the filters were changed every 4-6 weeks. On the same type, with no smoking the filters were not changed.

The issue on whether the passenger can understand English is a red herring. If they can't understand the instructions they will light up in the cabin. No one would willingly sneak off to an aircraft loo if they thought smoking was permitted in-flight.

And toilet fluid? That is why it has a flamable warning.

[radeng]

If toilet fluid is flammable, surely having methane from farts in contact with it is getting close to fuel air bomb? Perhaps we shoukld ban people from eating beans for two days before flying!

[dazdaz]

The smoking ban on a/c was not introduced i.e flight safety (possible in-flight fire) it was the start of the 'politically correct lobby' now look at us, can't even have a smoke standing at a bus stop


Daz

[VAFFPAX]

I'm so sorry that you consider that a case of the politically correct lobby... But I am a non-smoker and while I believe in live-and-let-live, I detest having to look like a fish out of the water with my mouth gaping open because my nose is clogged up thanks to your smoke, nevermind smelling like an ashtray when I get off a plane after a 13 hour flight.

It's common courtesy and decency to ask whether you can light up, but in my time of working in an establishment where smoking was permitted, I have never had smokers asking for permission. That's not to say that all smokers are rude, but the general implication that 'if I can smoke, I'll smoke because it's my right to smoke, bollocks to the non-smokers, they can find themselves a different place' is obvious.

S.

[dazdaz]

VAFFPAX

"nevermind smelling like an ashtray when I get off a plane after a 13 hour flight."

So I take it your objections as to smoking might not apply to short haul?

Daz

[VAFFPAX]

They apply to all flights. Thirteen hours, six hours, three hours, one hour, stuck in a metal tube with recycled air, you smell like an ashtray when you get off and people smoked. Unless your filters are exceptionally efficient (which would be a surprise, they certainly weren't back then), the length of time is irrelevant.

Besides, why would anyone need to light up on a one hour flight? Or a two hour one? I welcome things like an airside smokers' lounge (as someone else pointed out, like EMA now has) that allow smokers to get their fix in while they wait, but that's as far as you can go.

I probably sound terribly militant, but I'm not. I just feel it's unfair on the majority to have a minority impose their will because they chose to start a habit that is now addictive.

S.

[NG_Kaptain]

Varig 707

Varig on July 11, 1973 crashed in Paris due to an uncontained fire in the aft lavatory, was suspected a smoker started it accidentally.


PROBABLE CAUSE: "A fire which appears to have started in the washbasin unit of the aft right toilet. It was detected because smoke had entered the adjacent left toilet. The fire may have been started by an electrical fault or by the carelessness of a passenger. The difficulty in locating the fire made the actions of cabin personnel ineffective. The flight crew did not have the facilities to intervene usefully from the cockpit against the spread of the fire and the invasion of smoke."

[PaperTiger]

Originally Posted by NG_Kaptain

Varig on July 11, 1973 crashed in Paris due to an uncontained fire in the aft lavatory, was suspected a smoker started it accidentally.

Originally Posted by NG_Kaptain

The fire may have been started by an electrical fault or by the carelessness of a passenger.

Between June 1985 and June 2002, operators of Boeing aircraft made a total of 67 reports to Boeing of heater ribbon failures where thermal degradation was evident. Charred insulation material was identified in many of the reports. Structural damage from fire had occurred in at least two cases.
...
Service Difficulty Reports USA 1999042300717, USA 1988040800197, AUS 19990967, and AUS 19991248 all report burned heater ribbons.
...
The above information concerning heater ribbon failures supports the existence of an unsafe condition relating to the potential for water line heater ribbon installations to provide a source of ignition, combined with the availability of flammable materials in sufficiently close proximity to the ignition source to ignite. Heater ribbons are used extensively in transport category aircraft, including Boeing 707
...
In-line water heaters and water lines that contain integral heating elements are more prevalent on newer generation aircraft. Although historical data is limited, the possible failure modes of in-line and integral water heaters are considered to present a much lower threat of ignition than those associated with external heater ribbons.

TSB Aviation Safety Recommendations