Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight)
Reload this Page >

Do the pilots have a say in this????

Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight) If you are regularly a passenger on any airline then why not post your questions here?

Do the pilots have a say in this????

Old 15th Apr 2008, 20:08
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Fawlty Towers-Torquay
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Devil Do the pilots have a say in this????


Do the pilots/ATC and PAX have a say in this????

With the recent approval of the mobile phone usage on board aircraft, the airlines are now discussing the option of allowing the usage of such devices on board the aircraft. Do you think it is the aircrew's decision to allow this kind of facility on board or the airline markting department? After all it is the air crew that will be dealing with this at FL390 while the manager is sipping his coffee or wine at his comfortable apartment whatever his QNH level will be.
Also has there been sufficient research with regards to interferance from the mobile to the FMS or AFS systems?? I remember an incident when one of the first class pax on board an MH flight managed to disconnect the FMC during landing when he made a phone call from his mobile.

I understand that specific channels and certain MHZ frequencies will be allocated which are considered safe by the commision, but will it be certain that such channels will NOT interfer with navigational equipment on board the aircraft, not so much in cruise but during landing and takeoff?

Also will it be fair if you have someone sitting near you using their mobile phone who is waffling about all kinds of crap while you are trying to rest or enjoy a conversation with someone sitting next to you.

I would like to take this opportunity to ask for some feedback on this matter, especially from air crew and ATC guys who may have experienced such incidents (if any) Especially from the Middle East region.

I would also like to thank Qatar airways for taking the step to say NO to mobile phones.


Safety Concerns from previous reports

From March 1996 to December 2002, CAA recorded 35 aircraft safety-related incidents that were linked to cell phones, the authority said.

The reported interference incidents included interrupted communications due to noise in the flight crew's headphones, according to the study.


happy & Safe flying to all from Sybil, Polly and Manuel!

BF

Last edited by Basil-Fawlty; 15th Apr 2008 at 22:35.
Basil-Fawlty is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2008, 20:39
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Oz
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Whilst I agree with you in the points you make, unfortunately there are very simple answers that counteract your argument, and as Devils advocate I shall put forward a couple.
Firstly, it would be very simple to make mobile phones the same as laptops etc, ie only allowed to be used after take off until, say, TOD and thereby reduce the risk of interference during the more critical stages of flight. Whether people will adhere to this request is another matter, but then I suggest those people probably leave their phones on now anyway.
Secondly, I can't see this being introduced on a wide scale without further research as the the effects. It has been studied for a long time now, and nobody is going to risk an aircraft (or in this business now more likely their reputation and pay check) without some degree of certainty it is safe.
Finally, on the point of having to listen to somebody else's conversation (something I personally hate), unfortunately flying by air is still (for most people) classed as public transport. If you want silence and privacy there are numerous jet charter operators willing to take your money. In fairness I really dont see much difference between listening the someone blathering ionto a mobile compared to 2 people having a loud discussion in my ear. Both are equally annoying.
Just putting these points out there in the interests of the debate.......
anawanahuanana is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2008, 20:45
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: エリア88
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The system I saw recently had switch on the flight deck to disable the on-board network. I've had phone interference on an approach before now and I've got to say it was extremely distracting.
Mercenary Pilot is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2008, 20:49
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Esher
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Short haul is one thing...

...but if anyone wakes me up on longhaul they will need a very experienced surgeon to remove the 'phone...
outoftheblue is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2008, 20:55
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Standby...call you back..
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi,

as pilot I hope to get a swich to disable the system...like Mercenary Pilot asseses...and as pax while crossing the atlantic for sim session in the US..I really hope the system will be desabled by the flight deck...

people are already so "poor respectfull" in a restaurant ;..imagine in a airplane..where you just plan to have some rest..considering the 3 days you have to spent for that purpose..;among this about 28 hours in an airline...hope this will never come alive..
roljoe is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2008, 21:54
  #6 (permalink)  
FHA
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: E/E Bay
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The electronic safety aspect is (supposedly) covered by the onboard station which will facilitate reduced power transmission by the phone itself. Without the picocell then the cell phone will hunt at maximum power. Is that what you heard Merc pilot? Pretty annoying I'll bet. On approach as well? Ouch.
The physical safety aspect (as described by outoftheblue) involves not waking exhausted travellers up with "I'm on the 'plane..." etc.
FHA is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2008, 22:46
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Ireland
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Big problem I forecast is that when the onboard Pico cell is switched off, pax will have their mobiles turned on anyhow in the belief that, once MOL says it's OK, you can use them any time. Below 10,000 feet is when the problem starts.

There has been so much publicity on this issue recently that I am curious to know if cockpit crew are noticing greater breaches of the mobile rules?
talent is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2008, 23:01
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: エリア88
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Is that what you heard Merc pilot? Pretty annoying I'll bet. On approach as well? Ouch.
Most likely that's what it was. I had to ask the cabin crew to check that their phones were switched off and if they could check to see if any pax were visibly using one. I even made a PA to remind pax that its an offence to use their phones in flight but it didn't stop until we were pulling onto the gate.

It was very distracting especially as we were on approach to an extremely busy international airport and the Wx was appalling! In hindsight I maybe should have filed a report or possibly even an ASR.

I'd always thought that the aircraft intercoms would be protected against it (but in fairness I wasn't flying the latest in 2 winged technology that night!)
Mercenary Pilot is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2008, 23:04
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: US/EU
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As a passenger, I would love to see the airlines ban voice calls, but allow texting and email and other non-verbal communicatons, much the way the Japanese handle it on their trains, from subways to the shinkansen. Lufthansa has also stated it will not participate in on-board mobile phone service.
Mark in CA is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2008, 23:25
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
On a slightly different note.
If it's OK (and I Hope it never is!), for pax to use mobiles when airborne, then if necessary, (and, let's say only in unusual circumstances), the flight deck crew could as well.
We may have the starting point for the development of new procedures in the event of RTF failure.
Any thoughts folks?
ZOOKER is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2008, 23:50
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: netherlands
Posts: 299
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
1. Actual total radio failures (aircraft equipment) are rare, I never had one over the last 30 years.
2. On our long haul fleet we already have the satcom system and that is used extensively for company comms and, sometimes, for atc ops when no datalink is available and hf is unusable due to atmosferic conditions.
3. Yes, when all of the above is not applicable then your mobile is the last resort.
sleeper is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2008, 00:49
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: west of LTN
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Bucket and spade gone mad.

You bought the ticket, why do you need to stay in touch ?
Personally l would shoot the half wits who insist on making a pain of themselves on board an aircraft.
Wearing shorts is worse.
non iron is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2008, 02:09
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: England
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Angry

As a SLF who travels on a regular basis, i do not agree with allowing any form of mobile phones on planes, especially medium to long haul. Even allowing sms'ing would be annoying. Nothing worse then hearing someone shouting down the phone "Yes, i arrive in ten hours time as i'm on a plane", or those annoying sms tones, dot dot dot dash dash dash dot dot dot (think that's the standard Nokia one), and the such like, whilst trying to get some shut eye.

Cheers
TroyEade is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2008, 02:28
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: N Ireland
Posts: 265
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Unhappy

Will there be an increase in air rage incidents? Maybe this question should be on the predictions thread.
I would assume it has to be controlled by the flight deck as to which level it operates at, you can just imagine the pandemonium during the descent "alright dear I'll be on the ground in 5,10,15 minutes".
Are we going to get a large neon sign advising passengers that the phone won't work to prevent those that ignore the PA from wandering around the cabin looking for signals.
What about those phones that don't appear to work unless you walk with them.
Limited texting I could just about put up with but the last thing you want on a long haul is some halfwit jabbering in your ears.
I can appreciate having as they have for years the credit card phones at certain locations on the plane for really urgent calls and I wouldn't mind mobiles if used discreetly but that is a somewhat forlorn hope methinks.
Solar is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2008, 03:06
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
S-M-S, not S-O-S

You're thinking of the other thing:

SMS: ( std nokia tone ) is: dot-dot-dot-DIT-DIT-dot-dot-dot
mikelieman is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2008, 03:19
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There has been so much publicity on this issue recently that I am curious to know if cockpit crew are noticing greater breaches of the mobile rules?
Happens all the time where I fly.
In fact, when one pax asked to use his mobile during descent to DFFD not long ago, I told the cabin chief to make an announcement that everyone was so authorized, and three hundred plus folks then tried.
Any problem?
None, even with an autoland.
Lockheed built a superb aeroplane.
411A is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2008, 03:37
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: downunda
Age: 76
Posts: 128
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
On a recent flt from LAX to SAT there were several SLFs with cell phones on. But of more concern was the sevarl who were running their laptops with their BlueTooth and Wireless networks alive within those laptops.
I was thinking, I hope the AC manufacturer (B737) has made allowances for all that electronic traffic.

flynerd is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2008, 04:14
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SF,CA,USA
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Grrr

Actually if we are going to split hairs the standard Nokia tone for SMS is 'bleep bleep {pause} bleep bleep'.

The Morse code SMS was brainchild of the Swedes of Ericsson.

All highly annoying and I'd agree with others the policy should be silent mode only and no voice calls.
4potflyer is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2008, 04:55
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rosterwilltell
Age: 68
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Phone up there

The main reason for this c*ap is the virtual idle situation of a very expensive satellite link supposed to be airborne internet.
Maybe some remember connex..... by big company. It simply failed for two reasons: loss of connection and pricing.

The back door is now used to activate this stranded investment. Maybe it is just another try. Airlines will end up with heavy investment in additional weight and troubles.
Marketing guys did so much harm to the industry and keep on doing.
At the end we have a customer with unexpected costs and an airline with another stranded investment - maybe
DoNotFeed is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2008, 04:57
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: southwest
Age: 78
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I pity the cabin crew

I volunteer to be the first to ram my neighbour's mobile phone down his/her throat. If other pax follow the principle of zero tolerance, the poor crew will be on the receiving end of a lot of complaints. After all, it is the airline's decision to facilitate, or not, the use of phones.

Forget about users' about rights and freedoms: PHONE CONVERSATION IN A CONFINED SPACE IS POLLUTION,
and should be treated as such.

The precedent exists: smoking on aircraft. Mobile use should be dealt with in the same way.

Last edited by Dysag; 16th Apr 2008 at 05:13.
Dysag is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.