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Aborted Take Off/Birdstrikes

Old 3rd Apr 2008, 15:13
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Spain
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Aborted Take Off/Birdstrikes

I am looking for some enlightenment......

I have had two aborted take off's in the last month, both with EZY on AB319's. One due to a technical and aborted fairly early in the take off roll out of AGP and last night out of RAK we had a birdstrike and what seemed to be very late, I thought we were about to rotate and all of a sudden wham anchors on. It didn't worry me as I had expereinced it before but loads of pax went white!

Pilot obviously very professional and calm and informed us every step of the way what was going on, in the end an engineer was called to sign off that no damage was made and we were airboune within two hours of the incident. Well done EZY!

My questions are

1. How common are aborted landings before T/O and how common are birdstrikes?
2. How late can the pilot call off the take off? RAK seemed to have a very long runway, I checked and is over 10,000 ft.
3. How much damage can a bird do to an engine?
4. Would this incident have to be reported in some way, other than the flight log?
5. How serious is an incident like this?

I have searched the archives and found some info but most relaed to GA's as opposed to T/O?

Sorry if my questions have been asked before, but as it now happended twice it is playing on my mind, I am freqent flyer, fly pretty much every week in Europe/N Africa.

TIA
Morsel
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 16:20
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You Think, Therefore I Am
 
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Good question - depending on answers, maybe one for FAQ's
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 17:01
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Join Date: Aug 2002
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My questions are

1. How common are aborted landings before T/O and how common are birdstrikes?
2. How late can the pilot call off the take off? RAK seemed to have a very long runway, I checked and is over 10,000 ft.
3. How much damage can a bird do to an engine?
4. Would this incident have to be reported in some way, other than the flight log?
5. How serious is an incident like this?
1. Not sure I understand BUT birdstrikes can be very common. At BFS we operate a policy of constant harrassment whereby there is always a bird scaring vehicle(sometimes up to THREE) operating with bird distress calls and exploding shells.

2. Not a pilot but an ATCO .I understand that V1 is the cutoff. After that the aircraft will be taken into the air.

3. One bird can cause substantial damage. I recall once a 757 ingesting over 25 from a flock. The aircraft remained on the ground for a few days whilst the engine was changed.

4. The incident will be reported via the Airfield Fire Service.The details needed include type of bird ..whether day or night...damage to the aircraft ....whether on take off or landing...speed of aircraft...was bird scaring in progress..etc

5.Potentially very.


If I have forgotten anything I am sure my colleagues will add to it



Regards


EW
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 17:35
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1. How common are aborted landings before T/O and how common are birdstrikes?

Answer: Rejected takeoffs occur much less frequently than go-arounds, but they are not unusual. Birdstrikes are fairly common and there are many measures in place to reduce their frequency. The main problem is that airfields are fairly attractive places for birds.

2. How late can the pilot call off the take off? RAK seemed to have a very long runway, I checked and is over 10,000 ft.

Answer: The calculated V1 speed for the conditions, this takes into account, Aircraft Weight, Wind Direction & Strength, Temperature, Barometric Pressure, Runway Length, Terrain & Obstacles in the immediate climb out area. The list is not exhaustive but is intended to give an indication of the factors involved. Up to V1 the aircraft can be brought to a stop in the runway remaining, above V1 the takeoff can be safely continued following the loss of an engine. Again a slightly simplified explanation.

3. How much damage can a bird do to an engine?

Answer: Varies from none to very serious. One small bird might leave a smear of blood on a couple of blades, half a dozen large gulls at high speed would probably mean an engine change. A bird ingestion can induce a surge because the airflow into the engine is disrupted. This manifests itself in the form of flame from the exhaust, noise and various other indications in the engine instruments. Although quite alarming in appearance, surges are transitory and in many cases do not result in damage.

4. Would this incident have to be reported in some way, other than the flight log?

Answer: In addition to an entry in the Technical Log describing the fault that caused the take off to be abandoned the crew would usually be expected to file an Air Safety Report (ASR). The ASR would decribe the circumstances under which the take off was rejected and would cross refer to the entry in the technical log. Subsequently, the company safety department would be able to bring together all the reports relating to the event and evaluate the incident before deciding on any further action.

5. How serious is an incident like this?

Answer: From your description the circumstances, I would describe it as significant but not serious. They stopped the aircraft and returned to have it inspected. After ascertaining that there was no damage (I assume) they continued safely on their way. At "low" speed; typically below 90kts; the take off might be abandoned for many reasons, but rejecting the take off at a late stage would only be due to a serious condition such as an engine failure. Really all I can say is that the crew would take what they deemed to be the safest course of action in the light of the information available to them. But, I would stress that in some circumstances this might involve continuing the take off after a quite serious failure. It could be preferable to get airborne, deal with the problem and then return to land once everything had been secured. There are many variables in these situations.

If it helps put your mind at rest, I had one full blooded high speed rejected take off (RTO) in 42 years.

exmpa
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 19:49
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Lady Lexxington
 
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I work on the ground, but I've had one birdstrike (for my airline) in (coming up) six years. Seen only one other, that I can recall and that was a pair of herons and made a right mess but the a/c got back ok, pics are on PPRuNe somewhere. MAN must have a bloody good birdscare team in place.
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Old 4th Apr 2008, 10:10
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"Below 80 kts we will stop for any warning. Above that and below V1 for a fire, engine failure or if I consider the aircraft unsafe/unable to fly." Birdstrikes not uncommon - some places more prone than others, often coastal. My last was a goose smack in the middle of my windscreen at touchdown - made a big red mess!!
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Old 4th Apr 2008, 12:52
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Thanks for the response all.

Good to know it is not that uncommon! What's the odd's on two rejected t/o's with the same airline in the same aircraft type in a month? Must be pretty rare!

Hopefully that's my share of in flight excitment for a while....

Thanks
Morsel
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Old 4th Apr 2008, 15:25
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Paxing All Over The World
 
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I have been paxing for 42 years (avg amount, I suppose) and never had an RTO or go round, on any a/c ever. I am REALLY disappointed about this and need to add them to my list of war stories.

Recall watching my grandmother's departure from JNB enroute LHR in about 1970. The VC-10 was moving smartly down the runway when it stopped and then simply trundled back to the start, via the taxiway. Short wait to check out whatever it was that appeared to be wrong (lots of staff on the flight deck to make the checks!!!) and then departed as normal.

In an exchange of letters, my mother asked if they had said what was wrong, my grandmother (who must have been 65) replied, "I thought that they always did a trial run."
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Old 11th Apr 2008, 08:31
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Only ever experienced one, on a flight from Lourdes about 30 years ago, which was packed with catholic pilgrims (never heard so many hail Marys or seen so many rapid chest crossings at one time!). I don't recall being worried, as with so many "worthies" on board, the Big Guy would be highly unlikely to allow us to perish. Since then have flown thousands of sectors and never a repeat. I am therefore, amazed that two were experienced within a single month.

Engines are now so reliable that failures have actually become newsworthy. I suppose birdstrikes are now more lilkely.

One thing though; with aircraft becoming ever quieter, so the little blighters find it harder to hear them coming, I wonder if this means bird strikes will become more frequent?
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Old 11th Apr 2008, 15:08
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Join Date: Nov 2001
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Hey Morsel....with your luck there seems little point in doing the lottery!!!

Only had one incident as a pax myself...A late go around at SVO whilst in the jump seat of a Transaero 757... made my day that did!!
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Old 12th Apr 2008, 01:12
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been crew for 2 years now and had 1 birdstrike, 3 go arounds and my first rejected take off 2 weeks ago
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Old 12th Apr 2008, 15:53
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Join Date: Mar 2001
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I have been paxing for 42 years (avg amount, I suppose) and never had an RTO or go round, on any a/c ever.
Come and fly domestic US. ORD and MIA are always good for a laugh with their intersecting runways.

Edit: I have been to MIA since the new 09/27 opened - maybe it's better there now.
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