Lost Ticket T&Cs, or a funny thing happened on the way back from Jakarta
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Lost Ticket T&Cs, or a funny thing happened on the way back from Jakarta
Firstly, let me apologize in advance if this post is only partially related to air travel, but it certainly opened my eyes to some of the more peculiar issues one can encounter in curious circumstances in furrin' parts.
Nonetheless, I am, after a four year gap in time, trying to figure out precisely if I was conned, and if so, how, or whether I simply fell victim to some sort of bureaucratic catch-22, or my own good natured stupidity or something.
At the time, I thought I should possibly have sued someone, but couldn't really be bothered with the expense and hassle, the episode having cost me enough money as it was.
The bare facts are as follows: I had an economy-class ticket with a major airline but not necessarily a first-rate one, traveling from the UK first to India, for a friend's wedding, and then to Indonesia, to see an old school friend and go diving.
The ticket was bought over the phone very much on the cheap, from a large UK independent travel specialist.
On the way back from Surabaya to Jakarta, I lost my money belt, including my passport, return ticket home, and some money. I still had my regular wallet with some further money and credit cards.
This resulted in a a weeks' unanticipated stay in Jakarta, with the need to obtain a replacement passport, plane ticket, and more complicatedly, obtain a duplicate visa.
The replacement passport was, given that I'm a German national living in the UK for some years, issued with pleasantly Teutonic efficiency- having an expired German ID card tucked in my wallet helped a lot. The duplicate visa was issued within a day after the apparently usual 'processing fees' (not that the other immigrasi officer was at all thrilled by his colleague's sideline) and utterly peculiar antiquated bureaucratic process (take this down to the cellar to be photocopied, with _exact_ change- otherwise you'll not propitiate the troglodytic photocopier trolls).
The thing that to this day fills me with an combination of puzzlement and annoyance, is that I was unable to obtain a replacement for my plane ticket.
In fact, after four days of arguing with the airline's agent and occasional attempts to do the same with my travel agent, it was simpler (and cheaper, given international call and hotel costs, and the fact that my boss was beginning to wonder if I'd ever come back) to just buy a one-way ticket back to London on Malaysian from a well-known local travel agent, who were entirely competent and helpful, and not very expensive given the short notice.
What had happened? The airline agent acknowledged my identity, confirmed I had had a booking, was prepared to book me on their next flight out (not until the next weekend, as it happened, but still), would only charge me a modest rebooking fee (something like $50 or similar), but would, however require some details from my original ticket. Specifically the final price charged and some other pricing details. This is in spite of the fact that they were able to find my original booking in the computer system.
This was rather peculiar. I'd never needed such information previously, having lost tickets twice while flying on business within Europe (before e-tickets became almost universal).
Unfortunately, I didn't have a photocopy of my ticket (I've learned _that_ lesson now). In addition (this is the real kicker), upon calling my travel agent, I found that they had apparently 'lost' my ticket counterfoil details, and couldn't provide me with the required information.
The result? Impasse.
The airline agent refused to issue a new ticket, and the travel agent wasn't worth the 20 minute phone queues to get hold of anyone after the first two or three attempts.
Needless to say, I've used neither company since.
The question is- what on earth was I doing wrong?
Are lost ticket terms and conditions frequently such that no duplicate can be issued without details from a photocopy or similar source? Do some airlines simply have a non-public no replacement ticket policy?
Was the airline agent just following instructions/rules/regulations, or were they angling for a bribe or just being deliberately annoying to the stupid Westerner, or something? Would they have been happy had given them any old plausible numbers? Did they think something was 'fishy' with the original ticket? Would shouting, tantrums, making a scene or demanding to speak with a senior manager (and not leaving until one cared to show up) have done any good, or just gotten me arrested(I had no passport and visa at the time, so any police might very well have chosen to treat me as an illegal alien)?
What was the travel agency playing at? Had they really lost my ticket details , or were they trying to cover the fact they'd violated some booking rules for that airline, or working some other scam at either my or the airline's expense?
Should I have tried to sue the travel agency or the airline, afterwards?
Would any travel insurance (other than the one I had at the time) have covered anything beyond the actual replacement costs of passport and some loss of money? I mean, the major costs were purely incidental, like hotel, taxi fares, and the replacement ticket, not the replacement passport itself.
I've kind of chalked the whole thing up to experience, but I'd dearly like to know whether there was something going on I'd not twigged at the time.
Nonetheless, I am, after a four year gap in time, trying to figure out precisely if I was conned, and if so, how, or whether I simply fell victim to some sort of bureaucratic catch-22, or my own good natured stupidity or something.
At the time, I thought I should possibly have sued someone, but couldn't really be bothered with the expense and hassle, the episode having cost me enough money as it was.
The bare facts are as follows: I had an economy-class ticket with a major airline but not necessarily a first-rate one, traveling from the UK first to India, for a friend's wedding, and then to Indonesia, to see an old school friend and go diving.
The ticket was bought over the phone very much on the cheap, from a large UK independent travel specialist.
On the way back from Surabaya to Jakarta, I lost my money belt, including my passport, return ticket home, and some money. I still had my regular wallet with some further money and credit cards.
This resulted in a a weeks' unanticipated stay in Jakarta, with the need to obtain a replacement passport, plane ticket, and more complicatedly, obtain a duplicate visa.
The replacement passport was, given that I'm a German national living in the UK for some years, issued with pleasantly Teutonic efficiency- having an expired German ID card tucked in my wallet helped a lot. The duplicate visa was issued within a day after the apparently usual 'processing fees' (not that the other immigrasi officer was at all thrilled by his colleague's sideline) and utterly peculiar antiquated bureaucratic process (take this down to the cellar to be photocopied, with _exact_ change- otherwise you'll not propitiate the troglodytic photocopier trolls).
The thing that to this day fills me with an combination of puzzlement and annoyance, is that I was unable to obtain a replacement for my plane ticket.
In fact, after four days of arguing with the airline's agent and occasional attempts to do the same with my travel agent, it was simpler (and cheaper, given international call and hotel costs, and the fact that my boss was beginning to wonder if I'd ever come back) to just buy a one-way ticket back to London on Malaysian from a well-known local travel agent, who were entirely competent and helpful, and not very expensive given the short notice.
What had happened? The airline agent acknowledged my identity, confirmed I had had a booking, was prepared to book me on their next flight out (not until the next weekend, as it happened, but still), would only charge me a modest rebooking fee (something like $50 or similar), but would, however require some details from my original ticket. Specifically the final price charged and some other pricing details. This is in spite of the fact that they were able to find my original booking in the computer system.
This was rather peculiar. I'd never needed such information previously, having lost tickets twice while flying on business within Europe (before e-tickets became almost universal).
Unfortunately, I didn't have a photocopy of my ticket (I've learned _that_ lesson now). In addition (this is the real kicker), upon calling my travel agent, I found that they had apparently 'lost' my ticket counterfoil details, and couldn't provide me with the required information.
The result? Impasse.
The airline agent refused to issue a new ticket, and the travel agent wasn't worth the 20 minute phone queues to get hold of anyone after the first two or three attempts.
Needless to say, I've used neither company since.
The question is- what on earth was I doing wrong?
Are lost ticket terms and conditions frequently such that no duplicate can be issued without details from a photocopy or similar source? Do some airlines simply have a non-public no replacement ticket policy?
Was the airline agent just following instructions/rules/regulations, or were they angling for a bribe or just being deliberately annoying to the stupid Westerner, or something? Would they have been happy had given them any old plausible numbers? Did they think something was 'fishy' with the original ticket? Would shouting, tantrums, making a scene or demanding to speak with a senior manager (and not leaving until one cared to show up) have done any good, or just gotten me arrested(I had no passport and visa at the time, so any police might very well have chosen to treat me as an illegal alien)?
What was the travel agency playing at? Had they really lost my ticket details , or were they trying to cover the fact they'd violated some booking rules for that airline, or working some other scam at either my or the airline's expense?
Should I have tried to sue the travel agency or the airline, afterwards?
Would any travel insurance (other than the one I had at the time) have covered anything beyond the actual replacement costs of passport and some loss of money? I mean, the major costs were purely incidental, like hotel, taxi fares, and the replacement ticket, not the replacement passport itself.
I've kind of chalked the whole thing up to experience, but I'd dearly like to know whether there was something going on I'd not twigged at the time.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Re-issue of A lost or stolen ticket
is not alway as straight forward as just writing a new one.The Airline will need :
ORIGINAL TICKET/S NUMBERS
FARE BASIS
CLASS
IT/BT TICKETS ORIG FARE PAID NETT
FARE CALCULATION
Taxes paid
You would have needed to fill in a FOI ( Form of Indemnity) and pay a fee which can vary probabbly about 75 -100 pound .
Maybe your Travel Agent was Unsure of what to do but they always keep an agents copy of your ticket (ot they should)
I would certainly ask them why they could not provide above details.
Hope this Helps
ORIGINAL TICKET/S NUMBERS
FARE BASIS
CLASS
IT/BT TICKETS ORIG FARE PAID NETT
FARE CALCULATION
Taxes paid
You would have needed to fill in a FOI ( Form of Indemnity) and pay a fee which can vary probabbly about 75 -100 pound .
Maybe your Travel Agent was Unsure of what to do but they always keep an agents copy of your ticket (ot they should)
I would certainly ask them why they could not provide above details.
Hope this Helps
Even 4 years ago full ticket details for paper tickets were not always held on the reservations computer of airlines. The minimum was simply the ticket number and IATA number of the issuing agency. To write you a new ticket the airline needs to know which class you're booked in, what fare paid etc. Otherwise we'd all lose our tickets and claim we were ticketed first class (no that wouldn't work) or at least more flexibly than we actually were.
As kingdee says you would also have to sign a form of indemnity which effectively says that if the original ticket turns up and someone else uses it you will reimburse the airline for their "loss".
There is another approach which is to buy a replacement ticket (as you did) and then go down the FOI route. In such circumstances the airline may well impose a one year moratorium before paying out. Given that more than 1 year has now passed I would approach the airline and ask what, if anything, can be done. If you can quote the original ticket number and date/place of issue they should be able to trace it. Then show that you purchased a new ticket. Do all that, chase them a couple of times, and you might get some money back. However, I suspect the amount you could get back is going to be minimal because they will argue you travelled one way and they will deduct the one way fer from what you paid and only refund the difference. Unfortunately, it sounds like the ticket you bought was on a different airline to the lost one - had it been on the same carrier you might have had a better chance of claiming a reasonable amount.
As kingdee says you would also have to sign a form of indemnity which effectively says that if the original ticket turns up and someone else uses it you will reimburse the airline for their "loss".
There is another approach which is to buy a replacement ticket (as you did) and then go down the FOI route. In such circumstances the airline may well impose a one year moratorium before paying out. Given that more than 1 year has now passed I would approach the airline and ask what, if anything, can be done. If you can quote the original ticket number and date/place of issue they should be able to trace it. Then show that you purchased a new ticket. Do all that, chase them a couple of times, and you might get some money back. However, I suspect the amount you could get back is going to be minimal because they will argue you travelled one way and they will deduct the one way fer from what you paid and only refund the difference. Unfortunately, it sounds like the ticket you bought was on a different airline to the lost one - had it been on the same carrier you might have had a better chance of claiming a reasonable amount.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Similar experiences in the UK. In about 2002 I booked a ticket from LHR to FRA with Lufthansa via a travel package company in the UK.
I didn't realise I had to pick up a paper ticket from the travel offices and arrived at LHR to e-checkin and was told that I didn't have an e-ticket. The basic excuse was, yes, I was booked (name, frequent traveller number), no I couldn't get on a plane, yes I would have to buy a second ticket.
Which struck me as nuts. So I bought a replacement ticket, very reasonably priced from the ticket desk at LHR and flew. I informed the cab staff and they showered me with champagne (German sekt) and were very nice. But it was still nuts to me that all my details are in the computer but they wouldn't let me on the plane.
I mean... WTF!
I didn't realise I had to pick up a paper ticket from the travel offices and arrived at LHR to e-checkin and was told that I didn't have an e-ticket. The basic excuse was, yes, I was booked (name, frequent traveller number), no I couldn't get on a plane, yes I would have to buy a second ticket.
Which struck me as nuts. So I bought a replacement ticket, very reasonably priced from the ticket desk at LHR and flew. I informed the cab staff and they showered me with champagne (German sekt) and were very nice. But it was still nuts to me that all my details are in the computer but they wouldn't let me on the plane.
I mean... WTF!
Yes, but like I said all they will have in the *reservations* system is the ticket number which means nothing. If you know what you're doing you can make one up and nobody will ever know. Without the ticket data the airline have no idea what that ticket number represents.
And, before you say "it must be mine" I wish that were true.
And, before you say "it must be mine" I wish that were true.
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well it was at least ticket number, name and initial and I am pretty sure, though memory fades, my SEN number.
So I am in some doubt as to how there could be confusion. But I've noticed something about the Germans so...
So I am in some doubt as to how there could be confusion. But I've noticed something about the Germans so...
Join Date: May 2002
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It is not just the Huns, all airlines would probably act in the same way.
Passengers just do not grasp the concept that the thing loosely described as a "Ticket" is a book of individual "Flight Coupons". Unless the airline's revenue accounts department can produce the Flight Coupon, it doesn't receive any money for the journey!
With paper or cardboard Flight Coupons it is absolutely vital that you can produce them, or satisfactory evidence that can be provided by the airline to the issuer that they have carried you on the sector you have paid for.
Thank God for E-Tickets!
Passengers just do not grasp the concept that the thing loosely described as a "Ticket" is a book of individual "Flight Coupons". Unless the airline's revenue accounts department can produce the Flight Coupon, it doesn't receive any money for the journey!
With paper or cardboard Flight Coupons it is absolutely vital that you can produce them, or satisfactory evidence that can be provided by the airline to the issuer that they have carried you on the sector you have paid for.
Thank God for E-Tickets!
