Listen to RYR pre flt or get off!
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Pulse, that is why you are supposed to be looking at the card whilst watching the demonstration. Sign language and pictures can say far more than words alone, and as one who has flown LHR-> Warsaw -> Minsk where on the last leg (obviously the first leg on the return) the instructions were in Polish and Russian only I can assure you of that. There is no excuse for talking to your mate under any circumstances, especially when you have a child with you as you are 100% responsible for the rugrat.
Now, as posted, what that guy did was a breach of the T&C of his ticket so he has no leg to stand on no matter what the Captain's legal obligations are.
Now, as posted, what that guy did was a breach of the T&C of his ticket so he has no leg to stand on no matter what the Captain's legal obligations are.
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Originally Posted by Hunter58
Sorry, the very DAY that I will actually UNDERSTAND the mumbles of the safety briefing I will take care to attentively listen.
However I very studiously never say a word during it. That's a) plain bloody rude and b) rather dense, as you don't know that you haven't just scuppered your escape by talking over the one bit someone who is destined to block your exit or whatever didn't understand.
The only time I've been pulled up for not watching the safety brief, I just told the nice lady in the orange shirt that I'd listened to the Dutch version a couple of minutes previously; told her in Dutch, obviously
".......and set my innocuous 1kg Pret a Manger bag down by my feet while I settled my 105kg down in the seat and prepared to dig in.
Number 1 then decided my obvious branded and bagged breakfast needed to be in the bin. With a smile I said "yep I know, but its my breakfast, don't worry I'll make sure I put the bag up well before we leave."
What very poor manners. Next time eat your breakfast before you board!
Number 1 then decided my obvious branded and bagged breakfast needed to be in the bin. With a smile I said "yep I know, but its my breakfast, don't worry I'll make sure I put the bag up well before we leave."
What very poor manners. Next time eat your breakfast before you board!
The subject of Safety Briefings surfaces fairly regularly on PPRuNe. Last time it came up I wrote this:
With regard to the second paragraph, next time it happens I shall have the offending crew members removed from the flight. Anyone care to take bets who would get ejected if I tried that?
This subject has been done to death over and over again. OK, I do watch the Safety Briefing as a courtesy to the crew, but in actual fact I have already briefed myself before the demo has even begun. That's because if the $hite hits the fan I want to be prepared and I have a plan (well more than one, depending on the circumstances).
Reading comments on forums from crews advocating the wisdom and courtesy of paying attention to Safety Briefings, I am remimded the fact that one of the flights I regularly travel on always includes a positioning crew (in uniform) on board. On all occasions I have observed how they have continued to chat and joke with each other as the demo is given! What a great example to the rest of the pax that is!
Reading comments on forums from crews advocating the wisdom and courtesy of paying attention to Safety Briefings, I am remimded the fact that one of the flights I regularly travel on always includes a positioning crew (in uniform) on board. On all occasions I have observed how they have continued to chat and joke with each other as the demo is given! What a great example to the rest of the pax that is!
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BEagle, Ryanair now do croissants but not my favorite Almond croissants - I know it was bad manners to flaunt the higher quality croissant so early in the sector, but after a quick early morning blatt up the M11 with nothing but an Earl Grey slopping inside, by the time I sat down again I was hungry 
Actually I've seen the video of the Dear Doctor in the Cabin Crew forum now ... he seems almost normal
, normal humour, normal confidence, ... but it cost him dear to open his mouth again at the wrong moment, didn't it 
I reckon he must have had the same number one I got, or one from the same course
I can't help thinking this is another example of the same kind of reverse oneupmanship stories we've had from aircrew getting disproportionately taken apart by airport security ...
I think Dr T will make a good witness but he especially won't win, will he, 'cos the great unwashed need to see a superior example hung out to dry ... and he's it
Actually I've seen the video of the Dear Doctor in the Cabin Crew forum now ... he seems almost normal
, normal humour, normal confidence, ... but it cost him dear to open his mouth again at the wrong moment, didn't it I reckon he must have had the same number one I got, or one from the same course
I can't help thinking this is another example of the same kind of reverse oneupmanship stories we've had from aircrew getting disproportionately taken apart by airport security ...
I think Dr T will make a good witness but he especially won't win, will he, 'cos the great unwashed need to see a superior example hung out to dry ... and he's it
Paxing All Over The World
If RYR have introduced a new rule into their Ts & Cs about "listen avidly to the safety briefing - or we'll chuck you off" then they might have been justified in this action.
As far as I can tell, no such adjustment has been made and they have, therefore, opened themselves to court action.
As far as I can tell, no such adjustment has been made and they have, therefore, opened themselves to court action.
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If RYR have introduced a new rule into their Ts & Cs about "listen avidly to the safety briefing - or we'll chuck you off" then they might have been justified in this action.
As far as I can tell, no such adjustment has been made and they have, therefore, opened themselves to court action.
As far as I can tell, no such adjustment has been made and they have, therefore, opened themselves to court action.
If you are talking through a safety briefing you ARE breaking this part of the T&C
7.1.2.10 you fail to observe our instructions with respect to safety or security
7.1.2
We may also refuse to carry you or your Baggage if one or more of the following
have occurred or we reasonably believe may occur:
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If RYR have introduced a new rule into their Ts & Cs about "listen avidly to the safety briefing - or we'll chuck you off" then they might have been justified in this action.
As far as I can tell, no such adjustment has been made and they have, therefore, opened themselves to court action.
No.
The aircraft commander has absolute authority.
S/he delegates that to the cabin crew.
If someone decides to disobey a lawful command, then off they go, end of story.
As far as I can tell, no such adjustment has been made and they have, therefore, opened themselves to court action.
No.
The aircraft commander has absolute authority.
S/he delegates that to the cabin crew.
If someone decides to disobey a lawful command, then off they go, end of story.
>If someone decides to disobey a lawful command, then off they go, end of story.<
Question: Can it occur that the command is not actually lawful, or is non-sensical in that it is dangerous? Who judges if it is lawful? Especially at the time when the decision may have to be made under great stress?
Question: Can it occur that the command is not actually lawful, or is non-sensical in that it is dangerous? Who judges if it is lawful? Especially at the time when the decision may have to be made under great stress?
Let's be clear, the "lawful" aspect of a command is to cover situations like the commander saying "kill this passenger" or "carry these drugs for me". It certainly is not about some arcane discussion of whether telling someone to pay attention to the safety briefing is lawful or not.
Paxing All Over The World
OK, let me put it this way:
If RYR have introduced a new rule into their Ts & Cs about "listen avidly to the safety briefing - or we'll chuck you off AND THIS TIME WE REALLY MEAN IT. LIKE, FORGET PAX BEHAVIOUR OVER THE PAST 50 YEARS, SHUT UP AND LISTEN." then they might have been justified in this action.
I think that regulars in this cabin will know that I am something of a stickler for on board regulations and there is no need to tell me that ignoring the briefing is to break the Ts & Cs. However, if one CC decides - for what ever reason - to change the practice of every carrier I have ever been on or heard of (42 years SLF man and boy) and take such action against a pax, then it may be considered 'curious'. On my domestic sector today, I read the Q400 card and checked under my seat for life jacket and gazed steadily at the CC during the 'dance'. This is not 'holier than thou' but I saw that, as usual, not too many of the pax did so.
Equally, I have no doubt that RYR will be laughing to themselves, whilst waving their standard Ts & Cs and ignoring custom and practice. For that is the real point here - what is Usual? What is Normal? What do pax Expect?
If carriers have allowed pax to ignore the briefing over the past 25+ years, you would think that might advertise more clearly that they have changed their policy. That is if policy was changed or was it a whim? Had the pax done something to upset the CC that we know not of?
I find it interesting that this is the second report in only a couple of weeks, of 'curious' and individualistic actions by CC that resulted in offloading. The other case, of the Scottish football supporters was on a carrier not yet publically identified.
If RYR have introduced a new rule into their Ts & Cs about "listen avidly to the safety briefing - or we'll chuck you off AND THIS TIME WE REALLY MEAN IT. LIKE, FORGET PAX BEHAVIOUR OVER THE PAST 50 YEARS, SHUT UP AND LISTEN." then they might have been justified in this action.
I think that regulars in this cabin will know that I am something of a stickler for on board regulations and there is no need to tell me that ignoring the briefing is to break the Ts & Cs. However, if one CC decides - for what ever reason - to change the practice of every carrier I have ever been on or heard of (42 years SLF man and boy) and take such action against a pax, then it may be considered 'curious'. On my domestic sector today, I read the Q400 card and checked under my seat for life jacket and gazed steadily at the CC during the 'dance'. This is not 'holier than thou' but I saw that, as usual, not too many of the pax did so.
Equally, I have no doubt that RYR will be laughing to themselves, whilst waving their standard Ts & Cs and ignoring custom and practice. For that is the real point here - what is Usual? What is Normal? What do pax Expect?
If carriers have allowed pax to ignore the briefing over the past 25+ years, you would think that might advertise more clearly that they have changed their policy. That is if policy was changed or was it a whim? Had the pax done something to upset the CC that we know not of?
I find it interesting that this is the second report in only a couple of weeks, of 'curious' and individualistic actions by CC that resulted in offloading. The other case, of the Scottish football supporters was on a carrier not yet publically identified.
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Paxboy, EVERY aircraft's CC are inconsistent. How each set of pax AND CC behave differs per plane. We know that.
Doesn't excuse that guy's behaviour, doesn't justify attacking the crew for doing the right thing. That report only has one side of the argument, so how can you guarantee it is accurate (Like the Fox report on the woman dying in-flight the other day, as an example)? How do you know he was "talking quietly? How do you know he had not been repeatedly asked to shutup, therefore delaying and disturbing the safety instructions by having them interrupted by him being told to shut his gob? How can we say for certain that nobody else was disturbed/distracted by him gibbering? We only have his word for it, after all.
I, personally, cannot wait for him to take it to court (Could disturbing a safety briefing be classed as putting an aircraft/pax in danger? After all, if people don't hear the instructions/see the demo properly because of Mr. Gobsheen wittering away then could that be classed as a hazard due to people not seeing/hearing what to do? Could liabilty of some kind then be passed onto persons under these circumstances in the rare case of something actually going wrong? That would send out a warning to others... Sorry, thinking out loud...), will be good to hear both sides...
Doesn't excuse that guy's behaviour, doesn't justify attacking the crew for doing the right thing. That report only has one side of the argument, so how can you guarantee it is accurate (Like the Fox report on the woman dying in-flight the other day, as an example)? How do you know he was "talking quietly? How do you know he had not been repeatedly asked to shutup, therefore delaying and disturbing the safety instructions by having them interrupted by him being told to shut his gob? How can we say for certain that nobody else was disturbed/distracted by him gibbering? We only have his word for it, after all.
I, personally, cannot wait for him to take it to court (Could disturbing a safety briefing be classed as putting an aircraft/pax in danger? After all, if people don't hear the instructions/see the demo properly because of Mr. Gobsheen wittering away then could that be classed as a hazard due to people not seeing/hearing what to do? Could liabilty of some kind then be passed onto persons under these circumstances in the rare case of something actually going wrong? That would send out a warning to others... Sorry, thinking out loud...), will be good to hear both sides...
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Like me, the majority of postings agree with the actions of the Ryanair crew which prompts me to ask a very pertinent question. What would you expect to be the actions of a Cabin Crew if, after the safety demo, a passenger complained to a CC member that 'I'm sorry but I could not hear the safety briefing for people talking' OR 'I'm sorry but I could not hear the safety briefing due to the poor PA system'.
Would you expect the safety demo to be repeated even if it meant a delayed departure?
Would you expect the safety demo to be repeated even if it meant a delayed departure?
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See the BBC item on the subject.
A search of the BBC website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/
for - ryanair doctor will give you access to the BBC video item.
for - ryanair doctor will give you access to the BBC video item.
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By the way the BBC presented it, it sounds like what got him chucked off was talking back to the CC in a sarcastic tone after being asked for a 2nd time to be quiet. What a d1ckhead!
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"Like me, the majority of postings agree with the actions of the Ryanair crew which prompts me to ask a very pertinent question. What would you expect to be the actions of a Cabin Crew if, after the safety demo, a passenger complained to a CC member that 'I'm sorry but I could not hear the safety briefing for people talking' OR 'I'm sorry but I could not hear the safety briefing due to the poor PA system'.
Would you expect the safety demo to be repeated even if it meant a delayed departure?"
Yes, if the PA system was so poor that many people did not hear, it would have to be done again - but usually it would've been stopped and replayed before it got to the end if the sound system was poor.
You cannot force an individual to look, listen and take note, but the airline has a legal responsibility to ensure that every passenger can hear and see the safety demo. Therefore, if someone is standing up and blocking someone else's view, they must sit down. If someone is speaking loudly and preventing another passenger from hearing, they must quieten down. If someone is visually or aurally impaired, the ccrew must take them through the information individually.
Would you expect the safety demo to be repeated even if it meant a delayed departure?"
Yes, if the PA system was so poor that many people did not hear, it would have to be done again - but usually it would've been stopped and replayed before it got to the end if the sound system was poor.
You cannot force an individual to look, listen and take note, but the airline has a legal responsibility to ensure that every passenger can hear and see the safety demo. Therefore, if someone is standing up and blocking someone else's view, they must sit down. If someone is speaking loudly and preventing another passenger from hearing, they must quieten down. If someone is visually or aurally impaired, the ccrew must take them through the information individually.
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Whatever is going on in the world?
I used to consider people in the medical profession to be among the most courteous and polite members of society - now they seem to be turning arrogant to55ers out of medical schools!
To55er!
I used to consider people in the medical profession to be among the most courteous and polite members of society - now they seem to be turning arrogant to55ers out of medical schools!
To55er!
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Slightly off-thread, I know, but whilst being impressed (in general) by Ryanair cabin crews' commitment to safety - e.g., telling passengers not to fasten seat belts during refuelling - I do find it curious that
cabin attendants announce during the demonstration that lifejackets can be found either under the seat or behind a panel above passengers' heads. I think the announcement should be tailored to the location on the particular aircraft.
cabin attendants announce during the demonstration that lifejackets can be found either under the seat or behind a panel above passengers' heads. I think the announcement should be tailored to the location on the particular aircraft.
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OK, if its been done to death you don't want my views on it. But well done RYR.
As a rule, I always paid diligent attention but this is jaded at bit with experience. But what I do often do is watch with a glazed over view out of politeness, I would never talk through it, its rude to the CC and the pax who probably need it more than me. And in the event of an incident, to maximise my chances of MY survival I need all the pax to be doing exactly what they are supposed to. From that point of view I would give Dr T a bloody good kicking if he was busy trying to get his luggage down whilst my hair was on fire..
The best thing I ever saw was a Sabena FA giving the demo at the front of one of those turbo prop things at LCY - BRU, seat 1c (front row aise left hand side?) had some city banker (like myself, but ruder) reading his huge Times newspaper open and obviously ignoring the demo. So when it came to the "oxygen masks will fall from the ceiling above you" bit, she just dropped it into his newspaper screwing up the fold of the sheets and making him look like a ****. His offended face was a picture too.
Speaking personally, until you can recite the exact words of the safety briefing, you need to be paying attention, its all very well knowing it, but you need to know it well because when the plane hits the ocean at 100mph and the engine comes through the window on the opposite side of the plane decapitating that sweet old lady you need to know that the life vest is not under your seat but in the storage bin to its left (or whatever) and you need to know where your nearest exit is so you can get off before it sinks.
I've nearly always ensure that I run my exit plan through my head when I take a seat on a plane. But then I'm also the sort of person that sits facing backwards on trains and near the rear of the coaches and busses too. Other things like never staying in a hotel above the 6th floor, two wallets, no sparkly rolexs in Sao Paulo etc.
As a rule, I always paid diligent attention but this is jaded at bit with experience. But what I do often do is watch with a glazed over view out of politeness, I would never talk through it, its rude to the CC and the pax who probably need it more than me. And in the event of an incident, to maximise my chances of MY survival I need all the pax to be doing exactly what they are supposed to. From that point of view I would give Dr T a bloody good kicking if he was busy trying to get his luggage down whilst my hair was on fire..
The best thing I ever saw was a Sabena FA giving the demo at the front of one of those turbo prop things at LCY - BRU, seat 1c (front row aise left hand side?) had some city banker (like myself, but ruder) reading his huge Times newspaper open and obviously ignoring the demo. So when it came to the "oxygen masks will fall from the ceiling above you" bit, she just dropped it into his newspaper screwing up the fold of the sheets and making him look like a ****. His offended face was a picture too.
Speaking personally, until you can recite the exact words of the safety briefing, you need to be paying attention, its all very well knowing it, but you need to know it well because when the plane hits the ocean at 100mph and the engine comes through the window on the opposite side of the plane decapitating that sweet old lady you need to know that the life vest is not under your seat but in the storage bin to its left (or whatever) and you need to know where your nearest exit is so you can get off before it sinks.
I've nearly always ensure that I run my exit plan through my head when I take a seat on a plane. But then I'm also the sort of person that sits facing backwards on trains and near the rear of the coaches and busses too. Other things like never staying in a hotel above the 6th floor, two wallets, no sparkly rolexs in Sao Paulo etc.