The Atlantic, Ryanair style...
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The Atlantic, Ryanair style...
Don't know if that this topic has already been covered...sorry if it has.
With the announcement last year regarding Michael O Leary plans to launch "Ryanatlantic" from current ryanair airports to secondary airports in the US, do you actually think this business model could work?
The plan is to:
+Operate to secondary US airports in cities on both the east and west coast.
+Offer the usual cheep fares (€10) that would need to be subsidised by ryanair's premium service (costing around €5000).
First of all, I don't think that they will have any trouble attracting people that are willing to pay the cheapest of economy fares. However with the prospect of operating to secondary airports, coupled with the fact that they will be sharing the airplane with some stereotypical ryanair passenger(not generalising, but low cost carriers do attract more rowdy individuals)" do they offer enough of a service to entice the business/first class passenger?
I think that there are various other issues:
+ I believe that most US secondary airports cannot handle international traffic and do not have a customs presence.
+ Ryanatlantic could only justify purchasing new aircraft if they were worth half their current value (A350s and 787s)
As you can probably tell my knowledge doesn't go very deep, but I thought that this could be an interesting discussion....
randomair
With the announcement last year regarding Michael O Leary plans to launch "Ryanatlantic" from current ryanair airports to secondary airports in the US, do you actually think this business model could work?
The plan is to:
+Operate to secondary US airports in cities on both the east and west coast.
+Offer the usual cheep fares (€10) that would need to be subsidised by ryanair's premium service (costing around €5000).
First of all, I don't think that they will have any trouble attracting people that are willing to pay the cheapest of economy fares. However with the prospect of operating to secondary airports, coupled with the fact that they will be sharing the airplane with some stereotypical ryanair passenger(not generalising, but low cost carriers do attract more rowdy individuals)" do they offer enough of a service to entice the business/first class passenger?
I think that there are various other issues:
+ I believe that most US secondary airports cannot handle international traffic and do not have a customs presence.
+ Ryanatlantic could only justify purchasing new aircraft if they were worth half their current value (A350s and 787s)
As you can probably tell my knowledge doesn't go very deep, but I thought that this could be an interesting discussion....
randomair
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If the price is right then they will have no trouble attracting economy passengers, no matter how poor the service is.....who cares what you are treated like if you get across the atlantic for the type of fares rumoured!!
As for business, well i would assume that would depend very much on the quality of service, nonetheless, business's always have the financials in mind!
As for business, well i would assume that would depend very much on the quality of service, nonetheless, business's always have the financials in mind!
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Enduring Ryanair's treatment of its customers on a shorthaul flight in Europe is one thing. We can all manage to retreat into our cocoons, ideally with an iPod turned up loud, and pretend it's not happening for an hour or two for the sake of convenience and a cheap seat, much as torture victims sometimes manage to isolate themselves from the pain.
Doing that on a long haul flight is something else entirely. I really don't think I could take it for that long.
One factor is that The Ryanair Boarding Experience would be doubled or quadrupled in time and horror on a bigger aircraft.
Doing that on a long haul flight is something else entirely. I really don't think I could take it for that long.
One factor is that The Ryanair Boarding Experience would be doubled or quadrupled in time and horror on a bigger aircraft.
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When the cheap tickets are all sold though and a passenger has a choice of Ryanair or a full(er) service carrier for the same price... doesnt take much guessing who will get their business...
What needs to be asked is how Ryaniar will subsidise the €10 fares with higher fares when people wont be willing to pay them like they are on Shorthaul flights...
It will also be interesting to see what the inflight catering will be like. Its one thing to have sold out of sandwiches on a 3 hrs flight but a 7 or 8 hr flight without food is a very different prospect.
What needs to be asked is how Ryaniar will subsidise the €10 fares with higher fares when people wont be willing to pay them like they are on Shorthaul flights...
It will also be interesting to see what the inflight catering will be like. Its one thing to have sold out of sandwiches on a 3 hrs flight but a 7 or 8 hr flight without food is a very different prospect.
ryanair long haul?
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Pilot999,
It may not be quite so interesting for you, as you are retired/about to retire. For a lot of us however have quite a considerable time left in aviation, and I for one don't really relish the though of ultra low cost long haul and the subsequent effect it could have on the industry.
Another point, the airports they are looking into operating from are Dublin, London (Stansted), Liverpool, Frankfurt (Hahn) and Barcelona (Girona). I'm not a long haul pilot and haven't operated into these airports, but would a 787/350 have the performance for these airfields more to the point Liverpool, Hahn and Girona (especially when they are crammed with economy pax?)
It may not be quite so interesting for you, as you are retired/about to retire. For a lot of us however have quite a considerable time left in aviation, and I for one don't really relish the though of ultra low cost long haul and the subsequent effect it could have on the industry.
Another point, the airports they are looking into operating from are Dublin, London (Stansted), Liverpool, Frankfurt (Hahn) and Barcelona (Girona). I'm not a long haul pilot and haven't operated into these airports, but would a 787/350 have the performance for these airfields more to the point Liverpool, Hahn and Girona (especially when they are crammed with economy pax?)
a/c performance
re the above post re performance of 350/787 a/c
course they wld have,
it wld be easy peasy for those a/c to op those routes to east coast usa and maybe even (west) coast from (some) of those airports prob without any performance penalty and wld be very economical too
u can op a a330-200 man-cpt in high density config and it will make it.
although i would imagine ryanair, like flyglobespan wld try and use their 737-800 on shorter routes, oh yes, i bet they would on thinner routes,
you wait and see yuk!
course they wld have,
it wld be easy peasy for those a/c to op those routes to east coast usa and maybe even (west) coast from (some) of those airports prob without any performance penalty and wld be very economical too
u can op a a330-200 man-cpt in high density config and it will make it.
although i would imagine ryanair, like flyglobespan wld try and use their 737-800 on shorter routes, oh yes, i bet they would on thinner routes,
you wait and see yuk!
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I can't see how it would really work with 10euro flights, but I flew to Toronto last year with Flyglobespan in their 'business class' section. This is more akin to 'premium economy', but at only £100 more than economy on other scheduled airlines, that's the price point that would get me on their planes.
Of course, the service would have to be reliable too....
Of course, the service would have to be reliable too....
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Not sure If I could spend 7 plus hours on Ryanair, if they would provide the same sort of service they do on their current routes. Unless they provided two cabins, like an economy plus, if you like with added extras, benefits!!
But saying all of the above, there is deffo a market out there and am sure some people would not mind flying with Ryanair for their kind of prices and service, as long as they can get there safely and efficently.
But saying all of the above, there is deffo a market out there and am sure some people would not mind flying with Ryanair for their kind of prices and service, as long as they can get there safely and efficently.
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If it really only cost 10 Euros to fly across the Atlantic, then I would definitely be prepared to put up with a certain amount of discomfort and lack of customer service for the privelege. In fact, I'd probably be prepared to strap-hang in the cargo hold! Seriously though, most airlines seem to serve food that's barely (if at all) edible anyway in cattle class, so taking a packed lunch would be no great hardship. As long as they give at least as much leg-room in economy as they do for their short-haul operation, that aspect won't be a problem for me, either. Believe it or not I've flown to Australia with less legroom (when Airtours used to do charter flights there). 
My only reservation would concern their ability to attract the business class passengers who are supposed to subsidise the likes of me, but that's a problem for Mr. O'Leary, and not something I would concern myself with.
My attitude towards Ryanair is that I'll fly with them if it costs me next to nothing (and I've never had a serious problem so far), but if they're actually charging even close to a proper fare, I'll go with someone else, and I expect the same would apply with the new airline.
My only reservation would concern their ability to attract the business class passengers who are supposed to subsidise the likes of me, but that's a problem for Mr. O'Leary, and not something I would concern myself with.
My attitude towards Ryanair is that I'll fly with them if it costs me next to nothing (and I've never had a serious problem so far), but if they're actually charging even close to a proper fare, I'll go with someone else, and I expect the same would apply with the new airline.
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I don't really know a lot about the airline business but i'm not sure RYR's current model would work with transatlantic travel. Their model is built on keeping costs to a minimum, quick turnarounds, selling stuff on board and virtually no customer service should things go wrong. That may work for a quick hop to Barcelona for weekend but I'm not sure it would work for a business trip to NYC or a two week holiday to Miami.
Also, transatlantic travel is a cut throat business and it can be argued that low cost prices are already being offered. For example I recently booked a weekend in NYC for my niece as an 18th birthday present and I was staggered at how cheap the prices were on BA, a return from LHR was £250, I didn't even bother looking at any other airline I just booked it.
For me £250 seems extremely good value so how can BA offer flights so cheap ? Well, the last time I flew to the US with BA it cost my employer well over €3000 and there were a lot of us sat in the same cabin which equals an awful lot revenue. Sure, BA have a lot more overhead than RYR, probably because they pay their CC a salary they can live on, put their passengers in hotels when there is a problem and provide a customer services department with more than one person, that said they still must be using premium income to offer such cheap seats in economy.
How cheap would it be before you switched to RYR ? maybe £75 ? ok, so if they buy some bigger planes and transport 250 people all paying £75 that equals less than £20000 even before airport tax has been paid. That isn't enough, they will need some premium passengers. Where will they get these premium passengers ? They would have to change their whole model of doing business to attract such passengers, premium passengers will not tolerate 'sorry, your flight is cancelled, we don't have anything else, here's your money back, now get lost'
Conclusion ? Don't think it will happen....
Also, transatlantic travel is a cut throat business and it can be argued that low cost prices are already being offered. For example I recently booked a weekend in NYC for my niece as an 18th birthday present and I was staggered at how cheap the prices were on BA, a return from LHR was £250, I didn't even bother looking at any other airline I just booked it.
For me £250 seems extremely good value so how can BA offer flights so cheap ? Well, the last time I flew to the US with BA it cost my employer well over €3000 and there were a lot of us sat in the same cabin which equals an awful lot revenue. Sure, BA have a lot more overhead than RYR, probably because they pay their CC a salary they can live on, put their passengers in hotels when there is a problem and provide a customer services department with more than one person, that said they still must be using premium income to offer such cheap seats in economy.
How cheap would it be before you switched to RYR ? maybe £75 ? ok, so if they buy some bigger planes and transport 250 people all paying £75 that equals less than £20000 even before airport tax has been paid. That isn't enough, they will need some premium passengers. Where will they get these premium passengers ? They would have to change their whole model of doing business to attract such passengers, premium passengers will not tolerate 'sorry, your flight is cancelled, we don't have anything else, here's your money back, now get lost'
Conclusion ? Don't think it will happen....
Paxing All Over The World
If he launches soon, then he will be at the correct point in the economic cycle. In the same (and opposite) way that Eos/Max/SilverJet are not.
If low-cost long distance carriers were a feasible concept they would have been here long ago, and the ones started would have stayed around.
Look at the history.
Laker Skytrain. London to New York in te late 1970s. Eventually changed into something much more like a conventional carrier, with a premium class, then out of business.
People Express. They were next, London to New York, eventually ran out of cash too, taken over by Continental who changed the route to a classic mainstream carrier operation. Which continues.
Zoom. This year's New Kid On The Block on London to New York. Lots of publicity put out, then very quietly they just gave up on the route, didn't work for them either.
Ryanair. Whatever you might say about them, they are commercially sensible. No sign of long-haul services.
Look at the history.
Laker Skytrain. London to New York in te late 1970s. Eventually changed into something much more like a conventional carrier, with a premium class, then out of business.
People Express. They were next, London to New York, eventually ran out of cash too, taken over by Continental who changed the route to a classic mainstream carrier operation. Which continues.
Zoom. This year's New Kid On The Block on London to New York. Lots of publicity put out, then very quietly they just gave up on the route, didn't work for them either.
Ryanair. Whatever you might say about them, they are commercially sensible. No sign of long-haul services.
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WHBM wrote:
"Zoom. This year's New Kid On The Block on London to New York. Lots of publicity put out, then very quietly they just gave up on the route, didn't work for them either."
When do Zoom stop going to New York then? They're still advertising the route on their website, and I couldn't find anything about them dropping it.
Whatever the case with the New York route, they seem to be doing OK on their other routes if their expansion over the last 2 or 3 years is anything to go by, and they offer some really good fares out of season to destinations in Canada.
"Zoom. This year's New Kid On The Block on London to New York. Lots of publicity put out, then very quietly they just gave up on the route, didn't work for them either."
When do Zoom stop going to New York then? They're still advertising the route on their website, and I couldn't find anything about them dropping it.
Whatever the case with the New York route, they seem to be doing OK on their other routes if their expansion over the last 2 or 3 years is anything to go by, and they offer some really good fares out of season to destinations in Canada.
Last edited by Big Harvey; 13th Feb 2008 at 06:48.
They may indeed still be advertising the route in general terms (on a website whose front page was seemingly last updated on January 3rd with news about the BAA strike later that week) but if you try and book them for any date in February you will now find a "Sorry there are no flights" message. They seem to be thinking of coming back after 1 April, once a week nonstop, once a week via Bermuda, which seems an unlikely route to long term success on such a route.
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I wouldn't touch Ryanair for business travel, for the reasons SXB gives.
Neither would I trust their brand.
Maybe MOL (who is a smart operator) will start a new brand with a different business model behind it, if he decides to enter the north atlantic market.
Neither would I trust their brand.
Maybe MOL (who is a smart operator) will start a new brand with a different business model behind it, if he decides to enter the north atlantic market.
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So THIS is how they plan to generate the revenue to subsidize the ten euro seats???
Independent (Eire) newspaper
Apologies if this has been posted already; I didn't see it with a search ...
RYANAIR'S transatlantic spin-off will offer "beds and blowjobs" to premium class customers, airline boss Michael O'Leary told a stunned audience this week.
His comments came on a whistlestop tour of three German airports, in response to questions about plans for a longhaul airline.
The airline will fly people in economy class across the Atlantic for €10, while those in premium class will pay €4,000 to €5,000 for "beds and blow jobs," Mr O'Leary said. His local spokeswoman then began to choke on her glass of water while the Ryanair man added "surely you have a word for blowjobs in German,"according to local press reports.
An airline spokesman yesterday confirmed Mr O'Leary's comments. "The spokeswoman mentioned in the article was Anja Seugling, sales and marketing manager for Germany, Switzerland and Austria," he added.
"We confirmed at the press conference yesterday that the proposed Transatlantic Service will have a very low-cost economy cabin with seats priced from €10 one way, and a very high quality business class, providing better service than BA or Virgin.
"The working title for the business class service is 'Beds and Blowjobs'."
His comments came on a whistlestop tour of three German airports, in response to questions about plans for a longhaul airline.
The airline will fly people in economy class across the Atlantic for €10, while those in premium class will pay €4,000 to €5,000 for "beds and blow jobs," Mr O'Leary said. His local spokeswoman then began to choke on her glass of water while the Ryanair man added "surely you have a word for blowjobs in German,"according to local press reports.
An airline spokesman yesterday confirmed Mr O'Leary's comments. "The spokeswoman mentioned in the article was Anja Seugling, sales and marketing manager for Germany, Switzerland and Austria," he added.
"We confirmed at the press conference yesterday that the proposed Transatlantic Service will have a very low-cost economy cabin with seats priced from €10 one way, and a very high quality business class, providing better service than BA or Virgin.
"The working title for the business class service is 'Beds and Blowjobs'."
Apologies if this has been posted already; I didn't see it with a search ...