The Atlantic, Ryanair style...
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I was wondering when these comments would make it to Pprune!
One can only assume that MoL had had one too many. How unpleasant and insulting is that?
She's very lucky it was the water.
One can only assume that MoL had had one too many. How unpleasant and insulting is that?
His local spokeswoman then began to choke on her glass of water
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Just another reminder that O'Leary is well suited to running a low cost low end airline, but has not got the credibility to persuade people like me (who buy expensive long haul premium tickets) that he has a clue about our needs.
In short, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.
In short, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.
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I read a really good article on LCC long haul a while ago which made some intersting points. The key themes were:
1) that it would be harder to cut costs to the same percentage level on LH as short haul. Reasons included LH planes already have high utlisation, crew will have to stay over due to stage length; harder to get away with minimal passenger comfort, fuel costs are a higher % of LH costs; need some gallery space, min seat pitch etc
2) the incumbents already have priced a good percentage of LH economy seats on a basis which reflects benefits on having Bus class and the frequency bus travellers (all classes) want (ie extra econ seats may only have to cover the cost of shifting from say a 772 to a 773 and not the average cost of a pax seat) and that many econ seats are sold cheap because the premium classes and full fare Y cover much of the fixed costs off season, a benefit Ryan Atlantic won't have
3) Less opportunity to use secondary airports as wont save a high percentage of the fare price from secondary airports since landing fees are a smaller proportion of the total LH flight costs and to fill up a LCC LH flight you will need a large population base hence airports need to be near people or often (and importantly) need to be a hub airport where there is feeder traffic (hence a strength for legacy carriers).
The potential for LCC LH was seen as routes with a higher than usual percentage of traffic being leisure or visiting relatives such as by immigrants. Such routes would have low appeal to legacies (eg the routes Qantas offloads to its Jetstar subsidary). Such routes could have low frequency to produce high load factors.
Another point was that a successful LH LCC would be best to have an existing domestic feeder network to get the planes full. Again how Jetstar or AirAsiaX can expand into LH. Ryanair does have a European network but would need to become customer focused on connecting flights.
Lastly to save on crew costs you would often need to get staff from lower wage countries to match the low costs of existing full service carriers based in lower or middle income nations. Hence Australia's Jetstar Long haul having a high percentage of cabin crew being Thai.
1) that it would be harder to cut costs to the same percentage level on LH as short haul. Reasons included LH planes already have high utlisation, crew will have to stay over due to stage length; harder to get away with minimal passenger comfort, fuel costs are a higher % of LH costs; need some gallery space, min seat pitch etc
2) the incumbents already have priced a good percentage of LH economy seats on a basis which reflects benefits on having Bus class and the frequency bus travellers (all classes) want (ie extra econ seats may only have to cover the cost of shifting from say a 772 to a 773 and not the average cost of a pax seat) and that many econ seats are sold cheap because the premium classes and full fare Y cover much of the fixed costs off season, a benefit Ryan Atlantic won't have
3) Less opportunity to use secondary airports as wont save a high percentage of the fare price from secondary airports since landing fees are a smaller proportion of the total LH flight costs and to fill up a LCC LH flight you will need a large population base hence airports need to be near people or often (and importantly) need to be a hub airport where there is feeder traffic (hence a strength for legacy carriers).
The potential for LCC LH was seen as routes with a higher than usual percentage of traffic being leisure or visiting relatives such as by immigrants. Such routes would have low appeal to legacies (eg the routes Qantas offloads to its Jetstar subsidary). Such routes could have low frequency to produce high load factors.
Another point was that a successful LH LCC would be best to have an existing domestic feeder network to get the planes full. Again how Jetstar or AirAsiaX can expand into LH. Ryanair does have a European network but would need to become customer focused on connecting flights.
Lastly to save on crew costs you would often need to get staff from lower wage countries to match the low costs of existing full service carriers based in lower or middle income nations. Hence Australia's Jetstar Long haul having a high percentage of cabin crew being Thai.
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737-800 range
Will a 737-800 that is reasonably fully loaded (2-class, with about 150 total pax) make it to across the Atlantic from Stansted to somewhere useful in the USA - i.e. Boston or further west ?
I know that PrivatAir fly from Houston to Amsterdam, but this has far fewer pax.
I'm guessing that if Continental can fly Houston-Anchorage in a 738, the distance alone is not a major problem, but given the absence of diversion airports mid-Atlantic, the ETOPS rating might mean the route has a big enough dogleg that it just becomes unfeasible.
I'm curious as to whether Ryanair would be able to get away with just re-fitting the interior of some of their existing planes to have a higher-fare business section to cover the economics, or whether they absolutely have to get a new aircraft type to start a transatlantic operation
I know that PrivatAir fly from Houston to Amsterdam, but this has far fewer pax.
I'm guessing that if Continental can fly Houston-Anchorage in a 738, the distance alone is not a major problem, but given the absence of diversion airports mid-Atlantic, the ETOPS rating might mean the route has a big enough dogleg that it just becomes unfeasible.
I'm curious as to whether Ryanair would be able to get away with just re-fitting the interior of some of their existing planes to have a higher-fare business section to cover the economics, or whether they absolutely have to get a new aircraft type to start a transatlantic operation
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davidjohnson6
You seem to be a mis-informed (read the through the topic) there never has been a mention of using the B738 across the pond with FR. They are looking at the B777/787 and possibly A350, but guessing Boeing is where they get the deal (eventually).
You seem to be a mis-informed (read the through the topic) there never has been a mention of using the B738 across the pond with FR. They are looking at the B777/787 and possibly A350, but guessing Boeing is where they get the deal (eventually).
I know that MOL has been saying publicly he would use some widebody (be it 777, 787 or otherwise) to go transatlantic.
The 787 is delayed, and the 777 is not short of buyers. Therefore, MOL may not find it that easy to get hold of enough planes to do transatlantic on both the scale and terms that he wants.
MOL does however have a lot of 738s available. I'm wondering whether at a push he can refit the interior (not cheap to refit and not comfortable for pax) and use some of these to do transatlantic instead. Agreed it would not be the ideal choice, but is this option at least potentially viable in terms of what a 738 can do ?
The 787 is delayed, and the 777 is not short of buyers. Therefore, MOL may not find it that easy to get hold of enough planes to do transatlantic on both the scale and terms that he wants.
MOL does however have a lot of 738s available. I'm wondering whether at a push he can refit the interior (not cheap to refit and not comfortable for pax) and use some of these to do transatlantic instead. Agreed it would not be the ideal choice, but is this option at least potentially viable in terms of what a 738 can do ?
