Airport Security Complaints & Incidents (Merged)
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Reading your extract of the law, I would say that the TI card is not a disguised knife, since the blade is not hidden.
The TI card could be hidden in a wallet, but then a normal knife could be hidden under clothes - that does not make iot a disguised knife.
As far as I can see, the TI card is exactly what it is, a piece of titanium with a cutting edge, which probably has many normal and legal uses (like a razor blade), but which would not be allowed onto an aircraft.
Once the again, the intention of the person possessing it is the key; I've accidentally taken a swiss knife through a couple times and it has not been detected (I take 100-110 flights most years, so the odd lapse on my part is inevitable), but clearly it presented no security risk, because I didn't intend to hijack the plane with it.
Sikhs take kirpans through security on a regular basis and I don't recall these being used in any crimes.
So there you have it, in my opinion we should focus more on the passenger profile.
Reading your extract of the law, I would say that the TI card is not a disguised knife, since the blade is not hidden.
The TI card could be hidden in a wallet, but then a normal knife could be hidden under clothes - that does not make iot a disguised knife.
As far as I can see, the TI card is exactly what it is, a piece of titanium with a cutting edge, which probably has many normal and legal uses (like a razor blade), but which would not be allowed onto an aircraft.
Once the again, the intention of the person possessing it is the key; I've accidentally taken a swiss knife through a couple times and it has not been detected (I take 100-110 flights most years, so the odd lapse on my part is inevitable), but clearly it presented no security risk, because I didn't intend to hijack the plane with it.
Sikhs take kirpans through security on a regular basis and I don't recall these being used in any crimes.
So there you have it, in my opinion we should focus more on the passenger profile.
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Totally irelevant.
Yes, bottles can be used as weapons
Yes, bottles can be used as weapons
For sure you can do a lot of damage with a bottle of Johnnie Walker.
Security personnel at both LBA and MAN I find are unfailingly polite; the good ones initiate a greeting, and the rest at least respond in kind. Security at LHR never did either
and I am sorry to say are just plain rude mostly. But in general, like everything in life, you get back what you put in.When I see some of the moronic pax behaviour, even after all this time, bringing the queue to a halt with shaving foam, perfume, bottles of juice you name it in their hand baggage, well I can see how frustrating the job must be.
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can you have a rocket in your lip-balm?
whilst in security at LHR (heathrow) i was puzzled as to why my mothers lip-balm was confiscated at in security, as you could imagine, she wasn't happy about it and had to make a comment about having a Surface To Air missile in the lip-balm, which almost lost us our flight! Anyway, could someone tell me why LHR security would think lip-balm could possibly be a threat to an aircfaft ?
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There's no reason at all why a small tub/tube of lip balm should be confiscated as long as its in the small, clear, plastic bag provided...You can take liquids/gels/creams etc up to 100ml in size per item and with a total volume of no more than 1000ml. LHR security have done your mother out of a tube of lip balm!
Isn't there something rather crazy about the fact that I'm allowed a 150 or 200mL bottle of medicine, but not the same amount of water?
Some medicines don't come in 100mL sizes.........Furosemide, for example.
Some medicines don't come in 100mL sizes.........Furosemide, for example.
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On a recent journey through LGW South terminal, my mother in law, age 76, had to (a) endure the total chaos of the so called queueing system that happens after the ticket checker then (b) had to struggle to take off her shoes whilst in the security queue whilst the ignorant "green man" looked on, smirking, and finally (c) a full body rub down. There should be some common sense applied to security checking, or are terrorists now recruiting white anglo saxon grannies to their cause?
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Chica, sorry, but I'm glad she was checked out. Why was it a struggle to take off her shoes - doesn't she do that daily? I expect the "full-body rub-down" was carried out with no salacious undertones given the lady's age. I dislike fellow passengers who object to security screening - particularly when I see cabin crew and flight attendants subjected to same - daily. And it is applied very democratically to celebrities and government officials. Why the fuss over a scant few minutes of inconvenience.
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Passagiata
I hope if and when you get to the lady's age, that you are still nimble enough to be able to bend down, remove your shoes and put them back on your feet with ease and without pain.
The lack of chairs to sit upon or anything or anybody to assist people with such problems is all too evident, not only at LGW, but at other airports as well. I actually wonder whether these "shoe checking areas" confirm with legislation for people with minor disabilities. I have a problem with my achilies on one foot and require a shoe horn to replace shoes. A simple implement for assistance.
Are they provided?...are they hell as like.
The reason given to me for this lack of such a basic instrument, from a security supervisor at Manchester, is that they would be stolen, if provided.
Doesn't say much for what is supposedly a secure area or it's staff does it?
I hope if and when you get to the lady's age, that you are still nimble enough to be able to bend down, remove your shoes and put them back on your feet with ease and without pain.
The lack of chairs to sit upon or anything or anybody to assist people with such problems is all too evident, not only at LGW, but at other airports as well. I actually wonder whether these "shoe checking areas" confirm with legislation for people with minor disabilities. I have a problem with my achilies on one foot and require a shoe horn to replace shoes. A simple implement for assistance.
Are they provided?...are they hell as like.
The reason given to me for this lack of such a basic instrument, from a security supervisor at Manchester, is that they would be stolen, if provided.
Doesn't say much for what is supposedly a secure area or it's staff does it?
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True enough ... and no wonder we are seeing so many more velcro fasteners on more upmarket shoes, you used to only see them on really cheap shoes! In general I stand by my comment though - I've witnessed many able-bodied people making a***holes of themselves in the security queues for no reason other than sheer bloody-mindedness and self-centredness. It's no surprise to me that security staff develop a bit of a Teflon response.
I reckon half the problem is Bl**&y Awful Airports total failure to provide enough security staff and machines, thus leading to long queues. I don't know how much they get per passenger to cover 'security', but it wouldn't surprise me to find that if you dug deep enough into the accounts, you'd find they made a profit because of their parsimony. The TSA at Phoenix the last time I went through, had a line moving so quickly you didn't have time to put your bag on the ground before you were moving! Compare with the so called 'fast track' at T4 last Monday - 13 minutes.
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So the bleeper thingy goes off...
And i'm told to take my belt off...
Walk back through... and suprise suprise it goes off again.
At which point the man searhces me rather throughly... to the point in which I felt his hands slip down the inside of my jeans (front) and whilst not m aking urm "contact" i certainly felt a bit compromised.
I didn't say anything at the time as I was a bit shocked and embarased... is this normal procedure? Never had it before....
And i'm told to take my belt off...
Walk back through... and suprise suprise it goes off again.
At which point the man searhces me rather throughly... to the point in which I felt his hands slip down the inside of my jeans (front) and whilst not m aking urm "contact" i certainly felt a bit compromised.
I didn't say anything at the time as I was a bit shocked and embarased... is this normal procedure? Never had it before....
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Anybody know what the machines are that were being trialed in Miami in October.
You walk into a thing like a scanner but 'longer' and it has doors on the front... it then blasts you with jet air... what does it do?
It was quite funny as i wasn't meant to go through it... but I said to the security people in a jolly way "cor.. that looks fun" (bit of an ice breaker and something to relieve the bordom of standing in a que for ages)... and so he laughed and told me to go over there and try it..
He also said when i was walking away that they have to strip search me
thankfully it was a joke 
You walk into a thing like a scanner but 'longer' and it has doors on the front... it then blasts you with jet air... what does it do?
It was quite funny as i wasn't meant to go through it... but I said to the security people in a jolly way "cor.. that looks fun" (bit of an ice breaker and something to relieve the bordom of standing in a que for ages)... and so he laughed and told me to go over there and try it..
He also said when i was walking away that they have to strip search me
thankfully it was a joke
Yup, they have a whole load of them at the entrance to the CN tower in Toronto, just before you get to the lifts to go up to the glass floored section and the revolving restaurant. Don't know just how accurate they are, or all what they check for, but it did single my uncle out for "special" attention.
Ah well, it was his own fault for filing up with gas half an hour before hand. That certainly taught him not to run on an empty tank.......
Ah well, it was his own fault for filing up with gas half an hour before hand. That certainly taught him not to run on an empty tank.......
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ah thanks chaps!
Maybe it wasn't on trial then... it was just they only had one of the machines!
Also can you tell me what the machines were in terminal 3 in June 2007.. we went off to oz on 30th June and some people were selected to go into an enclosed box thing.. not sure what happened in there though.. but i'm sure they said it was a trial of new equipment...
When going out to Miami in October from T3 I didn't see them.
Maybe it wasn't on trial then... it was just they only had one of the machines!
Also can you tell me what the machines were in terminal 3 in June 2007.. we went off to oz on 30th June and some people were selected to go into an enclosed box thing.. not sure what happened in there though.. but i'm sure they said it was a trial of new equipment...
When going out to Miami in October from T3 I didn't see them.
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I've just read through these posts, and there seems a lot of the 'pity the poor security staff' type of comments.
Let's get real. Invariably going through LHR and other locations, I and other flyers are treated like sh*t. That's the reality. The reason for the staff getting abuse is simply down to god-awful rank (tantamount to criminal) decision making by airport management.
I have experienced and seen first -hand many times over the years in airports here, utter bl*ody mindedness, and inflammatory behaviour by so-called security 'professionals'. But when anybody dares to question what they do in even the most civil and polite way, then they are singled out for 'extra scrutiny. This singling out for 'extra attention', is nothing but bl*ody minded petulance of the worst kind, used in an off hand way to deliberately irritate and delay law abiding passengers who dare to even suggest maybe more staff are needed.
I'm sorry, but when I pay lots of money to fly (including paying for the security), I expect to be treated in a civil manner. I do NOT need shouted at continuously by some spotty teenager in a yellow tabard.
As regards a comment earlier by PASSAGIATA regarding an elderly pax having problems taking off shoes. Wise up! I know two relatives (one in his late forties) who both suffer from arthritis (as many elderly people do), and whilst they are not wheel chair bound, they have problems moving. In fact if you saw the guy in his forties walking you probably would not know he had a problem, until he tried to bend down or go up stairs.
One of the features of such conditions, is not only difficulty moving some joints, but ability to use all the muscle groups can also be reduced. This can affect balance, when reaching and stretching. So, there is EVERY reason why someone such as that would have real problems taking shoes off. Period.
When anybody in 'security' shouts in my direction to give orders, I ignore them, always. It works like this, I do not shout at them, so I will not tolerate them shouting to me. Simple.
Let's get real. Invariably going through LHR and other locations, I and other flyers are treated like sh*t. That's the reality. The reason for the staff getting abuse is simply down to god-awful rank (tantamount to criminal) decision making by airport management.
I have experienced and seen first -hand many times over the years in airports here, utter bl*ody mindedness, and inflammatory behaviour by so-called security 'professionals'. But when anybody dares to question what they do in even the most civil and polite way, then they are singled out for 'extra scrutiny. This singling out for 'extra attention', is nothing but bl*ody minded petulance of the worst kind, used in an off hand way to deliberately irritate and delay law abiding passengers who dare to even suggest maybe more staff are needed.
I'm sorry, but when I pay lots of money to fly (including paying for the security), I expect to be treated in a civil manner. I do NOT need shouted at continuously by some spotty teenager in a yellow tabard.
As regards a comment earlier by PASSAGIATA regarding an elderly pax having problems taking off shoes. Wise up! I know two relatives (one in his late forties) who both suffer from arthritis (as many elderly people do), and whilst they are not wheel chair bound, they have problems moving. In fact if you saw the guy in his forties walking you probably would not know he had a problem, until he tried to bend down or go up stairs.
One of the features of such conditions, is not only difficulty moving some joints, but ability to use all the muscle groups can also be reduced. This can affect balance, when reaching and stretching. So, there is EVERY reason why someone such as that would have real problems taking shoes off. Period.
When anybody in 'security' shouts in my direction to give orders, I ignore them, always. It works like this, I do not shout at them, so I will not tolerate them shouting to me. Simple.
Last edited by 10secondsurvey; 20th Jan 2008 at 08:58. Reason: to clarify point relating to 'here', not meaning pprune.
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10 Second Survey
Your points are well made.
The only airports in the part of Europe I travel to,where I get regularly hassled by security, are in the UK.
The security is thorough at other airports, but the personnel are usually polite and pleasant, no doubt trained to recognise that the passengers are paying for the service and should be treated like customers, not inmates.
I found that some of the UK security people seem to be on a power/ego trip and some are just unpleasant.
Your points are well made.
The only airports in the part of Europe I travel to,where I get regularly hassled by security, are in the UK.
The security is thorough at other airports, but the personnel are usually polite and pleasant, no doubt trained to recognise that the passengers are paying for the service and should be treated like customers, not inmates.
I found that some of the UK security people seem to be on a power/ego trip and some are just unpleasant.
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Hi 10secondsurvey - for my part, I've always shopped around for exceptionally low fares, so I'm always in the 'not expecting much' passenger category. Perhaps buying really cheap tickets is the answer - lowers your expectations. Yeah yeah I know, standards all around should be maintained - but the reality is, I don't care too much about procedures on the ground. Aircraft maintenance and competent, minimally stressed flight crew are all I care about. The reality is, you're going to strike underpaid, somewhat resentful staff on the ground who are taking it out on management via the passenger. You're going to strike the odd security staffer on steroids. One life lesson long learned: only fight battles you can win!
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Last night passing through Dusseldorf with another employee.
He hadn't put toiletries in a clear bag so was pulled after the scanner. I'm still busy putting clear bag, belt, laptop, jacket etc back where they belong while security went through his bag. Seeing that we were together, security officer ask if I can give him my clear bag, so I empty my toiletries into my case and hand the bag over.
At this stage the officer demands that I put my toiletries back in the clear bag, that both my and my colleague’s toiletries go in the same bag and that they are then put in my colleague’s case. I ask why and am told that toiletries cannot be removed from the clear bag until we reach our destination. She also decides to rescan my case, but has no interest in scanning the toiletries bag or rescanning my colleague's bag.
He hadn't put toiletries in a clear bag so was pulled after the scanner. I'm still busy putting clear bag, belt, laptop, jacket etc back where they belong while security went through his bag. Seeing that we were together, security officer ask if I can give him my clear bag, so I empty my toiletries into my case and hand the bag over.
At this stage the officer demands that I put my toiletries back in the clear bag, that both my and my colleague’s toiletries go in the same bag and that they are then put in my colleague’s case. I ask why and am told that toiletries cannot be removed from the clear bag until we reach our destination. She also decides to rescan my case, but has no interest in scanning the toiletries bag or rescanning my colleague's bag.
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Most stupid "security" measure I suffered was when a cigarette lighter was taken off of me at American Airlines check-in at LHR, with a comment like "you cannot take that on the plane" after I was picked out of the check in queue for a random luggage search. When I said "No problem, I'll buy another one airside" he glowered at me and started repeating "you cannot take a lighter onto the aircraft". When I said "who says I'll take it onto the aircraft?", the reply was <guess>. If ignorance is bliss then that guy must have been the happiest guy on the planet.
We were searched again before we got to the plane. No mention of lighters, matches, whatever, despite me smelling like an ashtray. Guess the first guy was grumpy because he didn't get a BJ that morning, but some consistency would be nice....
We were searched again before we got to the plane. No mention of lighters, matches, whatever, despite me smelling like an ashtray. Guess the first guy was grumpy because he didn't get a BJ that morning, but some consistency would be nice....
So you have to remove your belt and then end up with your trousers and underwear round your ankles. Who is responsible for this forced indecent exposure? And if I had a security guy with his hands in my trousers, I'd get through security, find a policeman and make a formal complaint of indecent assault - even if it meant I missed the flight!