Mysterious ill health symptoms linked to flying?
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Mysterious ill health symptoms linked to flying?
Would any passengers out there admit to any mysterious ill health symptoms which may be linked to flying that they have done? This could be after a one off trip or after frequent flying.
This is not so much broken legs from falling on the steps, but more subtle neurological type changes which aircrew are used to getting and affect passengers as well.
Many thanks, it would be interesting to know how passengers feel about this subject.
DB
This is not so much broken legs from falling on the steps, but more subtle neurological type changes which aircrew are used to getting and affect passengers as well.
Many thanks, it would be interesting to know how passengers feel about this subject.
DB
Paxing All Over The World
You probably want to start your research with this thread running on the front page (R&N)
Pilots protest over 'noxious' air
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=297115
Just in case you are a journalist, you might find it best to declare that up front!
How do I feel about this subject?
It's a hazard of life. If I take a flight or walk across the park to a supermarket, there are risks with both. Mostly they are negligible and, if I don't like them, I can stop travelling in aeroplanes or walking across the park.
Second thoughts - are you on the old 'Depleted oxygen' theme? Sorry if I sound accusatory, not intended, just no spare time to write a proper reply.
Pilots protest over 'noxious' air
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=297115
Just in case you are a journalist, you might find it best to declare that up front!
How do I feel about this subject?
It's a hazard of life. If I take a flight or walk across the park to a supermarket, there are risks with both. Mostly they are negligible and, if I don't like them, I can stop travelling in aeroplanes or walking across the park.
Second thoughts - are you on the old 'Depleted oxygen' theme? Sorry if I sound accusatory, not intended, just no spare time to write a proper reply.
Riding the Euro Gravy Plane
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From a passenger perspective the only real health issue I've noticed when flying is the number of colds I seem to develope a few days after flying. On reflection this can probably be attributed to being within close proximity of large numbers of people both on the aircraft and in the airport rather than the air conditioning systems onboard the plane.
I'm not sure long hours travelling on aircraft are harmful to our health (though I don't know) but what does have an effect on the body is some of the issues which result from travelling in general. For example I am not at my most alert when I am working, in a different time zone, when I would normally be sleeping at home, especially 3-6am 'normal body time' I find it more difficult to concentrate and simple tasks, like reading a document, take me a little longer, even when I don't actually feel tired. I'm not sure if people who work on aircraft experience the same effects or not, maybe they do it so often that their bodies can handle it more efficiently.
I'm not sure long hours travelling on aircraft are harmful to our health (though I don't know) but what does have an effect on the body is some of the issues which result from travelling in general. For example I am not at my most alert when I am working, in a different time zone, when I would normally be sleeping at home, especially 3-6am 'normal body time' I find it more difficult to concentrate and simple tasks, like reading a document, take me a little longer, even when I don't actually feel tired. I'm not sure if people who work on aircraft experience the same effects or not, maybe they do it so often that their bodies can handle it more efficiently.
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Just asking
Paxboy,
Thanks for high - lighting the earlier 'Noxious' air post, got it in one.
We, who know about aerotoxic issues, are aware that passengers are suffering too and wanted to know the details.
No i'm not a journalist, just asking the question - the answer of which may be of interest to said species...
Well, do you get increasing chronic fatigue, brain fog, stumble over words, awful short term memory, light headed, tight feeling in the chest with increased breathing, muscle twitches, tremors and mild skin irritation as a present working pilot has recently admitted to or are you able to explain why you may have any of these symptoms after flying and could be linked?
If no then please ignore. If yes, well you are in exactly the same atmosphere as the pilots, so don't be too surprised.
DB
Thanks for high - lighting the earlier 'Noxious' air post, got it in one.
We, who know about aerotoxic issues, are aware that passengers are suffering too and wanted to know the details.
No i'm not a journalist, just asking the question - the answer of which may be of interest to said species...
Well, do you get increasing chronic fatigue, brain fog, stumble over words, awful short term memory, light headed, tight feeling in the chest with increased breathing, muscle twitches, tremors and mild skin irritation as a present working pilot has recently admitted to or are you able to explain why you may have any of these symptoms after flying and could be linked?
If no then please ignore. If yes, well you are in exactly the same atmosphere as the pilots, so don't be too surprised.
DB
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When I was flying on a daily basis with the military in multi-crew jets, we were all fit and never flew with a cold. The worst you ever got was the hangover from a detachment! However, when flying civvy (just flew on 6 different civvy aircraft in 4 days), I always seem to pick up at least a bad cold but more often than not, something that usually feels like 'flu. It must be all those unhealthy passengers! 
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Main problem seems to be spending far too much time on pprune and realising you are not getting out into the sun, fresh air etc and reading too much into the posts, most of which are self-opinionated cr*p and have no bearing on life as we know it and the world in general.
If you want to fly, do so - don't worry about any so-called 'ill effects' - have you been on a bus in winter? All those people coughing and sneezing? Nothing wrong with air travel, although I would think full-fare, scheduled flights may be best, just to avoid some of the scum that infest our society...
Nurse - can I have the screens now???
If you want to fly, do so - don't worry about any so-called 'ill effects' - have you been on a bus in winter? All those people coughing and sneezing? Nothing wrong with air travel, although I would think full-fare, scheduled flights may be best, just to avoid some of the scum that infest our society...
Nurse - can I have the screens now???
Paxing All Over The World
Dream Buster I have never experienced the '146' problem, across the 18 or so years that I was on them going to the IOM two or three times a year. There was not even the slightest 'muzzy' head.
All of the other symptoms you describe are, likewise, unknown to me in 42 years of paxing. The 'more colds' problem is a hazard of life and the biggest change I noticed when I stopped working in conventional offices and using public transport. So that is not a flying problem.
The other problem that people sometimes have - that alcohol affects them more strongly at altitude - is also foreign to me. I actually have a very small capacity for alcohol and become inebriated very quickly (it's cheaper
) but when I drink on board, I can take about 50% more than usual.
All of the other symptoms you describe are, likewise, unknown to me in 42 years of paxing. The 'more colds' problem is a hazard of life and the biggest change I noticed when I stopped working in conventional offices and using public transport. So that is not a flying problem.
The other problem that people sometimes have - that alcohol affects them more strongly at altitude - is also foreign to me. I actually have a very small capacity for alcohol and become inebriated very quickly (it's cheaper
) but when I drink on board, I can take about 50% more than usual.
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Rtfq = 1/2 Tba
Paxboy,
I was asking for passengers who HAVE had mysterious symptoms.
I am very pleased that you haven't been affected - as 70% of people seem to NOT be affected, we are interested in the 30% who have been.
I haven't had a common cold for 10 years but I have had many of the previously mentioned symptoms and they were definitely linked to flying as many other aircrew will tell you.
DB
I was asking for passengers who HAVE had mysterious symptoms.
I am very pleased that you haven't been affected - as 70% of people seem to NOT be affected, we are interested in the 30% who have been.
I haven't had a common cold for 10 years but I have had many of the previously mentioned symptoms and they were definitely linked to flying as many other aircrew will tell you.
DB
Paxing All Over The World
I did RTFQ and decided to try and add a small amount of humour that could be ignored at will.
I have read a very great deal about the problems and have no doubt that it is all true and consider myself fortunate not to have suffered, either 146 or on other types.
Sorry Sir.
I have read a very great deal about the problems and have no doubt that it is all true and consider myself fortunate not to have suffered, either 146 or on other types.
Sorry Sir.
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Interesting thread. I have begun to wonder about the respiratory issue. Not just colds but serious throat infections and chest infections after long haul travel to Oz over the past 2 years. Two trips per year, total 4 return journeys in Y on different airlines and after each anti-biotics necessary. Ok, maybe it is just me.
Much more interesting was a mysterious illness landing me in hospital after an Air Wales (now defunct) flight. I flew LCY to Swansea. This necessitated a stop in Cardiff. The engines were left running, the rear door was open all the time and there was a nasty exhaust smell in the cabin. We continued to Swansea. Within an hour I had unpleasant tightness and pain across the upper chest and pains in my left arm. I functioned perfectly well all afternoon and evening and it eventually eased off overnight. The next day the return journey via Cardiff and the same procedure again on the ground. By the time I got off at LCY and made my way to the underground I was very unwell indeed with the same symptons. 999 call and London ambulance arrived but they did not think it was a heart attack. Taken to the London Hospital I think it was. Various blood tests and ecg and things and no one could work out what the blip on the ecg was. I was kept in overnight and then subjected to all kinds of heart tests including the treadmill and was running "uphill" at the end of 13 minutes. They said they don't see heart patients doing that. I was discharged. No further symptons. I mentioned this to a chemistry teacher friend who said the exhaust fumes from the aircraft has chemicals in it which can act like heart stimulants used by the medical profession and he was not at all surprised by what I experienced.
Much more interesting was a mysterious illness landing me in hospital after an Air Wales (now defunct) flight. I flew LCY to Swansea. This necessitated a stop in Cardiff. The engines were left running, the rear door was open all the time and there was a nasty exhaust smell in the cabin. We continued to Swansea. Within an hour I had unpleasant tightness and pain across the upper chest and pains in my left arm. I functioned perfectly well all afternoon and evening and it eventually eased off overnight. The next day the return journey via Cardiff and the same procedure again on the ground. By the time I got off at LCY and made my way to the underground I was very unwell indeed with the same symptons. 999 call and London ambulance arrived but they did not think it was a heart attack. Taken to the London Hospital I think it was. Various blood tests and ecg and things and no one could work out what the blip on the ecg was. I was kept in overnight and then subjected to all kinds of heart tests including the treadmill and was running "uphill" at the end of 13 minutes. They said they don't see heart patients doing that. I was discharged. No further symptons. I mentioned this to a chemistry teacher friend who said the exhaust fumes from the aircraft has chemicals in it which can act like heart stimulants used by the medical profession and he was not at all surprised by what I experienced.
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This is an interesting topic. I've worked in aviation, and now use commercial carriers with some regularity. Fortunately, I have never experienced any of the symptoms you've described, aside from the occassional cold most likey brought on by close proximity.
I'd like to express a concern which I hope will not be taken as criticism, but as observation based on experience by someone who works daily with moderately complex statistical modeling.
Let's for a moment think about one of the symptoms raised in this thread, skin irritation. Were I to develop such a symptom during or shortly after a flight, it might be tempting to attribute the development to the flight.
This is called recency bias in statistics.
It is however possible that I had come in contact with something which caused said irritation either before the flight, and it took some time to be expressed, or after the flight, and the symptom was expressed quickly.
Self-diagnosis is a slippery slope, especially when one uses such terms as "chronic fatigue," which I think is a specific syndrome with documented diagnostic guidelines. Not being a physician, I doubt if I could accurately self-diagnose chronic fatigue syndrome in myself no matter how much medical literature I read.
What I am getting at here is that belief that something has occured does not necessarily mean that it has occured. Seemingly related events for which correlations have yet to be measured cannot automatically be assumed to be related.
Taking this one step futher, proof of causality requires that a clear signal be sent from A -> B. In the shorthand of formal logic:
If A, then B.
Not A, therefore, not B.
All that being said, I believe, based on casual observation and from the many things reliable people have told me about their own experience, that there is in fact a real health issue worthy of serious professional investigation.
I haven't spent any time researching the issue personally, but have no doubt epidemiologists are looking into it as we speak, as it's a field rich with the possibility for meaningful discovery.
I'd like to express a concern which I hope will not be taken as criticism, but as observation based on experience by someone who works daily with moderately complex statistical modeling.
Let's for a moment think about one of the symptoms raised in this thread, skin irritation. Were I to develop such a symptom during or shortly after a flight, it might be tempting to attribute the development to the flight.
This is called recency bias in statistics.
It is however possible that I had come in contact with something which caused said irritation either before the flight, and it took some time to be expressed, or after the flight, and the symptom was expressed quickly.
Self-diagnosis is a slippery slope, especially when one uses such terms as "chronic fatigue," which I think is a specific syndrome with documented diagnostic guidelines. Not being a physician, I doubt if I could accurately self-diagnose chronic fatigue syndrome in myself no matter how much medical literature I read.
What I am getting at here is that belief that something has occured does not necessarily mean that it has occured. Seemingly related events for which correlations have yet to be measured cannot automatically be assumed to be related.
Taking this one step futher, proof of causality requires that a clear signal be sent from A -> B. In the shorthand of formal logic:
If A, then B.
Not A, therefore, not B.
All that being said, I believe, based on casual observation and from the many things reliable people have told me about their own experience, that there is in fact a real health issue worthy of serious professional investigation.
I haven't spent any time researching the issue personally, but have no doubt epidemiologists are looking into it as we speak, as it's a field rich with the possibility for meaningful discovery.
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Like SXB I'm definitely more prone to colds and sore throats. On one occasion I even went down with a dose of flu a couple of days after flying. Nothing particularly mysterious about that though. When you fly, you're in a confined space and breathing the same air as loads of other travellers, some of who are likely to be carrying infectious illnesses. Also, the very act of travelling abroad exposes you to infections you won't have encountered at home.
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I'd like to post some of the serious health problems that some pax seem to develop when they are in the check in queue before they fly which become more serious as the time to board draws near. I am not sure of the correct medical term but the English equivalent is using a fictional medical complaint to blag an upgrade instead of paying for it. Then if they are successful in this request they recover as if struck by a miracle at the end of the flight.
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Dan Air 87......
"I am not sure of the correct medical term but the English equivalent is using a fictional medical complaint to blag an upgrade instead of paying for it. Then if they are successful in this request they recover as if struck by a miracle at the end of the flight."
We have a term for the above in Liverpool, it's called 'Pulling a fast one'
Daz
"I am not sure of the correct medical term but the English equivalent is using a fictional medical complaint to blag an upgrade instead of paying for it. Then if they are successful in this request they recover as if struck by a miracle at the end of the flight."
We have a term for the above in Liverpool, it's called 'Pulling a fast one'
Daz
