Things I always wanted to know as a passenger

[10secondsurvey]

Another quick point. I was recently on a flight in Europe, and the ground level lighting strip showing where the overwing exits are, was out of alignment with the exit rows. In a dark smoke filled cabin, I guess many people would die trying to get out of a regular window by following the floor lighting. I have to say, it's the first time I had seen such a problem.

This, for the record, was on a major European carrier.

[WdW]

New Question: Use of handhelp GPS

I am a navigation enthusiast, and take my Garmin handheld GPS receiver along on most trips. Usually stowed in cabin luggage, but have on occasion used (or tried to use) it during the flight. On some occasions the cabin crew got permission from the cockpit without problems, on other occasions the response was a very definite "NO."

I do accept that whatever the PIC says goes - so no worries - but am curious as to WHY someone would not allow the use of a handheld GPS receiver in the back. It is a after all a RECEIVER - or does it actually transmit anything that could interfere with instrumentation?

[TightSlot]

10SS

I had a trawl through Google for safety card images but couldn't find one to make the point, so you'll have to take me on trust here for the time being.

In the UK, at least, the brace position has to be achievable for the seat pitch/config - Next time you fly, please double-check the position shown. As far as I am aware, it (generically) features the pap leaning forward, resting the forehead/forearm on the back of the seat in front with forearms either side of the head, hands overlapping (i.e. not fingers interlocked) behind the head: Legs should be bent at the knee, with the ankles slightly behind the knees and feet flat on the floor. There is a different position when infants are on laps.

I believe (honestly) that this position is achievable for pax in 28" seat pitch, and that it offers a degree of protection, certainly from severe head-strike injury. The position of the feet and lower leg was (I believe) modified after Kegworth.

[perkin]

10secondsurvey

Its more to do with resting your head against the first thing it would hit on impact if you were just sitting normally in your seat, with the aim of reducing the severity of injury. So either the seat back infront of you, or your knees essentially...the latter being shown on safety cards.

[PAXboy]

With regards to drowning, a small point that will be of no comfort(!) when a person drowns, they tend not to get too much water into their lungs as inhaling water triggers the airway to seal shut - a reflex called a laryngospasm. I read that, most who drown actually suffocate.

WdW Welcome to the forum, this subject has been discussed here and the Search facility should bring information about electronic devices on board. The short answer is Yes, the device does emit radio frequency (RF), albeit a small amount. The reason is to do with micro-processors. The concern is that the interference from the device is unknown and therefore, the safest is to keep it switched off. As I say, there are a number of threads that have contributions from engineers.

[WdW]

Use of handhelp GPS

WdW Welcome to the forum, this subject has been discussed here and the Search facility should bring information about electronic devices on board. The short answer is Yes,

Thanks for the welcome, PAXboy. Have since found the (vast) archive, and am busy sifting through that ...

Thanks again.

[PAXboy]

Just noticed that you are in Richards Bay, ZA. I remember well my flight into RCB, even though it was nearly 23 years ago, partly because it was an 8-seater something in atrocious weather. The most amusing part was the road leading away from the terminal (a tiny building) and that the tar finished after about 500m and then it was dust track as usual. High tech gave way to Afrika! Go Well.

[108.9]

Another question if I may?!

Why when taxing to the runway for takeoff are the cabin crew allowed to walk about the cabin, but after landing when taxing to the gate they are not??

[WdW]

RCB Then and Now

I remember well my flight into RCB, even though it was nearly 23 years ago, partly because it was an 8-seater something in atrocious weather. The most amusing part was the road leading away from the terminal (a tiny building) and that the tar finished after about 500m and then it was dust track as usual. High tech gave way to Afrika!

The place has grown considerably - I have lived here since early 70's. Residential areas now go AROUND that airport. And yes, I also remember some dubious operators from here.

On one occasion, a 06h00 take-off with "Metavia Airlines", headed for JNB. A rustbucket of note, 17-seater I think. No idea of make or model.

Just as were going into the low cloud, a passenger actually managed to OPEN THE EMERGENCY EXIT. His first time flying, and he wanted to "open a window". I kid you not. Fortunately not a pressurised cabin, but still frightening. We turned around and headed back to RCB. The upper part of the door was found in the bush some weeks later.

This must have been early to mid 90's. I have since searched all over the net for a record of the event, but simply cannot find any.

Can someone translate THIS page? It pretty much looks the same as the aircraft we were in (a LET 410 UVP-E?) - and it may just be that the author is telling the story.

http://www.avijacijabezgranica.com/f...pic.php?t=3214

[6chimes]

Why when taxing to the runway for takeoff are the cabin crew allowed to walk about the cabin, but after landing when taxing to the gate they are not??

As with any aspect of commercial aviation a balance has to be struck between safety and service. The crew are permitted to move around the cabin to make sure that we are all safe for take off. These duties should be completed and then the crew should take their seats. There have been many cases of a/c colliding with each other on the ground, which could seriously injure anyone not strapped in. After landing though is different because all the security procedures would/should have been completed in the air.

Hope that helps.

6

[easy1]

If you find yourself in situation number 3, follow these rules,
1) Stick your head between your legs
2) Kiss your arse goodbye
3) Hope your flying 1st class, what a **** way to die on RYAN AIR rat class!!

[easy1]

10secondsurvey

YOU SEE, EVEN GB/BA/soon to become easyjet GET IT WRONG!!!!!!!!!

[PAXboy]

easy1 You might want to stay in coach (Y). Aircraft tend to travel in the direction of the pointy end of the machine. This means that the pax in 1st are also 2nd in line for meeting the unmovable object (after the flight crew ). So there is one compensation to being down the back end, you might just walk away and be able to look at the 1st class cabin, also known as, the crumple zone.

[10secondsurvey]

For the record, it wasn't EZY or BA......

[10secondsurvey]

Tightslot,

The Brace position you describe (and I've seen safety cards with it), leaning on the seat in front, whilst upright, is in my mind nonsense inspired by airlines who suddenly realised the 'correct' brace position would not be possible with high density seating. It is not ideal. Previously, the position involved bending over, with elbows to the side, but now it's just lean on the seat in front, whilst upright. And I know changes were advised following kegworth, but I don't think that change ever came about because of new research following kegworth.

No, if you want to adopt a good brace position, make sure you are in business class. With 28 inch pitch (26 inches of legroom), forget it.

The best solution is of course flying backwards (as the forces used to do - maybe they still do it?), and you can do that, if you fly clubworld on BA.

[TightSlot]

is in my mind nonsense inspired by airlines who suddenly realised the 'correct' brace position would not be possible with high density seating

The Brace position for each type of seat/seat pitch is determined and overseen by the CAA - airlines do not have the authority to amend it. The CAA approved Brace position allows for practical use within the high-density seating pitch and configuration which is also determined and overseen by the CAA.

There has never been an economy seat pitch that permitted the upper body to bend fully flat against the thighs without the head coming in contact with the seat in front.

The primary purpose of the Brace position is to minimize head-strike injury, and the existing Brace position for high-density 28" seat pitch does exactly that.

This seems to be the second thread on which we are exchanging contrasting opinions. I have to say that your opinion of both the CAA and the airlines appears to be rather low. Whilst it is true that both display many faults, I believe that you underestimate the level of knowledge on safety matters and depth of study that these organizations employ. Policy on matters such as seat pitch, exit configuration and brace position is determined not on the back of a fag packet by airline marketing people but by accredited experts who have a lifetime of experience in their fields. To assume otherwise might appear naive.

[jamier]

What would happen if you depart and have to ditch in water very soon after takeoff (no time to dump fuel etc) assuming you survive the ditching would the wings not be super heavy with all the fuel they are carrying and mae the aircraft sink alot faster?

[rsuggitt]

Also, if one was a terrorist and had smuggled a device on board and wanted to detonate it at a specific point (eg when the aircraft was smack over a given city centre), the a GPS would pinpoint your position for you, even in IMC.

[Leezyjet]

Calculate- door about 78 inches x 36 inches (minimum) x 8 pounds Sq. in= 22,464 pounds pressure on that door, holding it against the stops. I would quite happily stand watching as the worlds most strongest man tried to wrestle with that. You don't need interlocks, and indeed most doors don't have them. The plug door has to open inwards first, so you need to defeat that pressure, before the door can be open- not just slide it past the stops to open. The handle mechanism isn't anywhere near strong enough. Makes for good scenes in movies though.

I met a flight a few years back where a chap had tried to open the e/exit at about 500ft on final approach on an A321 with the outward opening doors. Tried to find out if it would have opened had he not been wrestled to the floor as the a/c at that point would presumably no longer be pressurised, and the Airbus type doors do not seem to be plug doors like the B737/B747 style doors, but even the Capt and the Engineers were not sure.

Why when taxing to the runway for takeoff are the cabin crew allowed to walk about the cabin, but after landing when taxing to the gate they are not??

I thought it was because on departure, people are not in a rush to get off, however on arrival, where everyone wants to be off ASAP, if the pax see crew walking around they will then assume they can too and begin to get up and get their h/luggage - although in some parts of the world they do this anyway !!

[SXB]

Why when taxing to the runway for takeoff are the cabin crew allowed to walk about the cabin, but after landing when taxing to the gate they are not??

Sometimes not even the passengers are seated. On Saturday I was on my way to a wedding in Belgrade and saw the most flagrant disregard of the seatbelt sign I've ever seen on an aircraft outside of eastern Europe. As the aircraft taxied to the runway, cabin crew already strapped in, someone got up and went to the toilet, then another, and another. They were all seated a good two or three minutes before the aircraft reached the runway but, according to the drop down screens, at about 1700m into the climb another passenger went and used the toilet and then another, and another. At that point the purser came racing down from the front of the aircraft and quickly seated all of the offenders. I don't know what the attendant at the back of the aircraft was doing through all this but I could hear her telling the offenders, in English, French and German, to sit down but she never got out of her seat.

The chaos continued as we landed in Belgrade, as soon as the wheels hit the ground some of the passengers were out of their seats and retrieving luggage from the overhead lockers.

Clearly the main issue was one of language, a lot of the Serbs on the flight clearly didn't speak English, French or German, plus it was obvious they don't fly that often.

I've seen this happen on other flights to the Balkans and eastern Europe and normally the CC, firstly, point towards the seats and if that doesn't work they stand up and guide the offenders back to their seats.

For info the flight was Swiss LX1416 from Zurich to Belgrade. This flight also broke the record for the most amount of ringing mobile phones as the plane descended into belgrade......