Descent into Stanstead.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Anglia.
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Descent into Stanstead.
The flight will not be identified, I have no complaints about flight crew, I merely wish to describe a descent into Stanstead from a passenger point of view. I am not a nervous flyer, having flown in many types, private, military and commercial.
My position in the cabin was behind the Port wing. Engines cut to idle, flaps set, they were to remain, apparently, at a constant setting. Descent begins.
We entered cloud, very shortly, the aircraft 'appeared' to experience an uncontrolled drop, stabilised, then dropped yet again not so much the second time, exclamations from many passengers.
Descent continues, no discernible change in engine revs, no movement on flaps.
Runway comes into sight, I wait for touch down, then the aircraft dropped out of the sky with much force, so much so, that I was flung forward from the lap belt up, into the seat in front of me, as I was looking out of the window, it was the side of my head which hit the seat.
I will not go into detail about the resulting lower abdomen pain, it cleared up within 3 days.
Any idea what the pilot was confronted with? Again, no complaints.
We are looking at a 737 which had no wing tip vortex foils, perhaps an older version?
My position in the cabin was behind the Port wing. Engines cut to idle, flaps set, they were to remain, apparently, at a constant setting. Descent begins.
We entered cloud, very shortly, the aircraft 'appeared' to experience an uncontrolled drop, stabilised, then dropped yet again not so much the second time, exclamations from many passengers.
Descent continues, no discernible change in engine revs, no movement on flaps.
Runway comes into sight, I wait for touch down, then the aircraft dropped out of the sky with much force, so much so, that I was flung forward from the lap belt up, into the seat in front of me, as I was looking out of the window, it was the side of my head which hit the seat.
I will not go into detail about the resulting lower abdomen pain, it cleared up within 3 days.
Any idea what the pilot was confronted with? Again, no complaints.
We are looking at a 737 which had no wing tip vortex foils, perhaps an older version?
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All together now!
To the tune of "Guantanamera"
One 'A' in Stansted
There's only one 'A' in Stansted
One 'A' in Stansted
There's only one 'A' in Stansted
(rpt)
Welcome to the mad, mad world of PPRuNe, Avitor
One 'A' in Stansted
There's only one 'A' in Stansted
One 'A' in Stansted
There's only one 'A' in Stansted
(rpt)
Welcome to the mad, mad world of PPRuNe, Avitor
The Analog Kid
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Brecon Beacons National Park
Age: 57
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Avitor
We entered cloud, very shortly, the aircraft 'appeared' to experience an uncontrolled drop, stabilised, then dropped yet again
So when you fly through or just below a cloud that's forming (or at least whose thermal is still active), you're flying through a load of air that's going down really fast, then a load of air that's going up really fast, then another load of air that's going down really fast.
Believe it or not, some of us do this for fun, sitting in a bucket seat, tied by loads of hi-tec string to a couple of layers of sailcloth
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Anglia.
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not really, I am more interested in what problems the professional encountered.
Perhaps a polite pilot might tell me why the aircraft fell out of the sky, as opposed to landing.
Perhaps a polite pilot might tell me why the aircraft fell out of the sky, as opposed to landing.
Paxing All Over The World
Not being a pilot, Avitor, I try to be a a polite pax.
The full answer was provided by fyrefli. Thermals can start close to the ground and there are cross winds - often generated by obstacles near the air field and ones that you cannot see but still affect the movement of wind. These air flows cannot be seen and are constantly changing their shape, speed and direction. That is why we pay pilots good money and, once in a while, all of their best efforts and training land up with the wheels meeting the ground at a higher speed than they want.
I have been on such landings myself, notably at Munich airport one evening. I was at a window seat and observing the approach and was not surprised that the landing was a stronger bump than usual. The pax who were not in this position called out in surprise and mild shock The aircraft is physically able to take these events and one of the main reasons that people comment about them, is that they are so rare. I can think of only two or three such landings in over 40 years as pax.
The full answer was provided by fyrefli. Thermals can start close to the ground and there are cross winds - often generated by obstacles near the air field and ones that you cannot see but still affect the movement of wind. These air flows cannot be seen and are constantly changing their shape, speed and direction. That is why we pay pilots good money and, once in a while, all of their best efforts and training land up with the wheels meeting the ground at a higher speed than they want.
I have been on such landings myself, notably at Munich airport one evening. I was at a window seat and observing the approach and was not surprised that the landing was a stronger bump than usual. The pax who were not in this position called out in surprise and mild shock The aircraft is physically able to take these events and one of the main reasons that people comment about them, is that they are so rare. I can think of only two or three such landings in over 40 years as pax.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Anglia.
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thankyou PAXboy. We were well out of cloud before we 'touched down'.
I am wondering if the thermals affected landing speed to such an extent, that the aircraft stalled at point of touch down.
I am wondering if the thermals affected landing speed to such an extent, that the aircraft stalled at point of touch down.
The Analog Kid
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Brecon Beacons National Park
Age: 57
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Avitor
Not really, I am more interested in what problems the professional encountered.
(I was specifically replying to the part of your post about what was happening to you near the clouds, hence why I quoted that part of your original post.)
The air is not an inert medium; as PAXboy has pointed out, there are a variety of other things going on all the way from the ground to the heavens and, whilst your passenger transport aircraft has a lot of momentum on its side, it's far from immune to these effects. Near the ground there are a huge number of influences on the flow of the air as it is affected by temperature differentials, buildings, terrain features etc. This is why in any aircraft the most critical phases of flight are close to the ground - and why altitude is a good thing
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Anglia.
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for that fyrefli.
As I say, I am an experienced flyer, private, military and commercial. This was the hardest landing I have ever encountered.
If there were no gear damage, it was a very close thing.
As I say, I am an experienced flyer, private, military and commercial. This was the hardest landing I have ever encountered.
If there were no gear damage, it was a very close thing.
Last edited by Avitor; 6th Sep 2007 at 14:05.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Wet Coast
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Avitor
I am wondering if the thermals affected landing speed to such an extent, that the aircraft stalled at point of touch down.
Very occasionally a stalled landing can happen. An (ahem) acquaintance of mine managed it in a 737. Hot day, long float in ground effect, nice long runway; ahh what the he11 let the ****er land itself
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 4,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If there were no gear damage, it was a very close thing.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Avitor - Hard Landing, so the aircraft was taken out of service for the hard landing checks was it? No it wasn't, no A/c at STN (or NCL/BFS) has been in Sept.
In a less flippant tone, a hard landing (only had one so far!) is nasty and the G loads are cosiderable. But the term "Hard Landing" is specific to one that exceeds certain parameters. It is a long way from a firm touchdown to a hard landing, so unless you were sitting with a G meter......
In a less flippant tone, a hard landing (only had one so far!) is nasty and the G loads are cosiderable. But the term "Hard Landing" is specific to one that exceeds certain parameters. It is a long way from a firm touchdown to a hard landing, so unless you were sitting with a G meter......
Riding the Euro Gravy Plane
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Strasbourg
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you lean forward and look sideways out of the window when a plane is landing you have a fair chance of being jolted into the seat in front of you. I've experienced many 'firm' landings where if I'd have been leaning forward I'd have banged my head. I once banged my head on the wall of the plane because I was asleep when it landed. Basically, you need to prepare yourself for the moment the wheels touch the ground and be sat properly in your seat and not leant forward looking out of the window.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Anglia.
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BusBoy. The landing occured on the 24th June.... XLA.
SXB....You could not be more correct, I have chastised myself for my stupid positioning. That will not happen again. It hurt.
ps. I hope members take this thread as a learning curve, for myself and perhaps others. I am spouting nothing, I am prompting.
SXB....You could not be more correct, I have chastised myself for my stupid positioning. That will not happen again. It hurt.
ps. I hope members take this thread as a learning curve, for myself and perhaps others. I am spouting nothing, I am prompting.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southend-On-Sea
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You seem to os suffered from Ryanairism just like me!
2 years ago i had a horrible descent into Stansted With Ryanair. Pilot was apparently trying to get to stansted before it shut at midnight.
2 years ago i had a horrible descent into Stansted With Ryanair. Pilot was apparently trying to get to stansted before it shut at midnight.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sweden
Age: 52
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Had the same experience myself on a Ryanair flight so Stansted in august. Hardest landing I've ever experienced in an airliner (hell, harder even than my first attempts at landing a taildragger, and those weren't pretty ). Probably not critical, but it did surprise me (and make my ass hurt, those Ryanair seats are only padded as much as they HAVE to be I guess).
Is there a gravel pit at the end of the runway at Stansted or something? I'm a glider pilot, and the general feeling was that we moved right out of a thermal and into its accompanying huge sink on the downwind side. Only the ground is usually a little further away when I do this myself .
Is there a gravel pit at the end of the runway at Stansted or something? I'm a glider pilot, and the general feeling was that we moved right out of a thermal and into its accompanying huge sink on the downwind side. Only the ground is usually a little further away when I do this myself .