Airport Security Fiasco?
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 729
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From: San Jose
Actually, I think this one might have some merit. Once your average piece of clueless SLF has suffered extortion at the scanner, perhaps next time he'll remember to pack the stuff properly in advance and not hold up the whole 
queue messing around (I still have sore memories of two people in front of me at Stansted doing exactly this, the second could see the first and made no attempt to sort her stuff until she was at the front of the queue).
I'd class it as idiot tax provided it doesn't degenerate into "you must use one of our bags, not your own", at which point it does become pure extortion.
queue messing around (I still have sore memories of two people in front of me at Stansted doing exactly this, the second could see the first and made no attempt to sort her stuff until she was at the front of the queue).I'd class it as idiot tax provided it doesn't degenerate into "you must use one of our bags, not your own", at which point it does become pure extortion.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 729
Likes: 1
From: San Jose
er...what was she supposed to sort it into..?
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 137
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From: UK
The rules have been in place for long enough now (regardless of whether we agree with them or not). The biggest issue continues to be those who think the rules don't apply to them or 'forget' that they have two items of hand luggage &/or liquids in their bag.
Hopefully the queues will get shorter as those of us that can find alternatives to travelling through BAA's Shopping Centres - my wallet (both business and personal) is considerably fuller this year having discovered the merits of videoconferencing/Eurostar/Ferries & regional airports the first 3 of which let me forget about 100ml bottles/plastic bags & queues.
Hopefully the queues will get shorter as those of us that can find alternatives to travelling through BAA's Shopping Centres - my wallet (both business and personal) is considerably fuller this year having discovered the merits of videoconferencing/Eurostar/Ferries & regional airports the first 3 of which let me forget about 100ml bottles/plastic bags & queues.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,511
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From: East Midlands
Liquids in Hand Luggage
One version of the rules I have found says
"The contents of the plastic bag must fit comfortably and the bag sealed. Each passenger may carry only one such bag of liquids. The bag must be presented for examination at the airport security point. Liquids that can not be placed inside the re-sealable bag must be packed into the hold luggage and checked in.
It depends what people think is meant by "Presented for examination at the security point". Many might think that this meant presented in your hand luggage. If they can put up signs saying take of your coat/jacket and videos produced at huge expense then they should show people getting out their plastic bags full of lethal mascara and unguent body lotions and make the requirement clear to people who perhaps only travel once a year.
"The contents of the plastic bag must fit comfortably and the bag sealed. Each passenger may carry only one such bag of liquids. The bag must be presented for examination at the airport security point. Liquids that can not be placed inside the re-sealable bag must be packed into the hold luggage and checked in.
It depends what people think is meant by "Presented for examination at the security point". Many might think that this meant presented in your hand luggage. If they can put up signs saying take of your coat/jacket and videos produced at huge expense then they should show people getting out their plastic bags full of lethal mascara and unguent body lotions and make the requirement clear to people who perhaps only travel once a year.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 331
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From: london
Actually there would be no queues if airports actually used all their security points. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if every pax turned up at security prefectly organised, then the outcome would simply be that airport management would cut the staff/screening points further, leading to long queues again.
The chaos isn't the fault of the pax, it is greedy airport management who like to 'spin' any problems they have into being the fault of pax. As someone else above pointed out, it is wise to do anything possible to avoid these airports that have been turned into shopping malls.
Sadly, some of the staff posting here seem to have swallowed the management 'spin' hook, line and sinker.
As for charging for those bags, I really just cannot believe it. Utter b*st*rds.
The chaos isn't the fault of the pax, it is greedy airport management who like to 'spin' any problems they have into being the fault of pax. As someone else above pointed out, it is wise to do anything possible to avoid these airports that have been turned into shopping malls.
Sadly, some of the staff posting here seem to have swallowed the management 'spin' hook, line and sinker.
As for charging for those bags, I really just cannot believe it. Utter b*st*rds.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 494
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From: Somewhere
10secondsurvey, have to disagree with you - STN last Sun PM was a nightmare, caused mainly by EZY online check-in failing, EZY check-in desks opening v late and a total lack of queue management, resulting in 2hr wait for check-in and many pax missing their flights. There were also obvious serious security issues with that many pax milling around groundside. Security checks themselves were no problem, apart from the usual moronic pax that can't / won't read the signs and then have to re-pack bags whilst holding everyone else up, not to mention those that think they can walk through with a carry-on bag weighing as much as a full suitcase. I'm not sure what the percentage of moronic pax is, but it's sure as hell enough to hold everyone else up! Rant over.....
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,511
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From: East Midlands
Hand Baggage rules and their enforcement
27mm is correct. People 'try it on' with hand luggage because they have seen others break the rules or have got it away with it themselves. I have seen oversize hand luggage, I have seen heavy stuff that took 2 grown men to get into the overhead locker, I have seen people with 4 items of hand luggage excluding their duty free and so it goes on. If the existing regs were rigorously enforced the word get round and the problem would soon end.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
From: Edinburgh
Actually, I think this one might have some merit. Once your average piece of clueless SLF has suffered extortion at the scanner, perhaps next time he'll remember to pack the stuff properly in advance and not hold up the whole queue messing around (I still have sore memories of two people in front of me at Stansted doing exactly this, the second could see the first and made no attempt to sort her stuff until she was at the front of the queue).
I'd class it as idiot tax provided it doesn't degenerate into "you must use one of our bags, not your own", at which point it does become pure extortion.
queue messing around (I still have sore memories of two people in front of me at Stansted doing exactly this, the second could see the first and made no attempt to sort her stuff until she was at the front of the queue).I'd class it as idiot tax provided it doesn't degenerate into "you must use one of our bags, not your own", at which point it does become pure extortion.
Couldn't agree more
A prime example of this one was a few weeks ago at EMA when they are asked when their boarding card is checked 'do you have any liquids in your hand luggage?' pretty simple question you would think!, they answer NO. Then they get along to the scanner and low and behold BEEP! and out of the bag comes 4 yes 4 litres of coke.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
From: london
Just remember, not everyone is a frequent flyer.
For example, one of my relatives flew recently for the very first time. He found the whole process from check in to bag weight to security, and little plastic bags bewildering. At security, he gets sternly 'told off' for not getting things right. This relative is seventy years old, but is by no means an idiot.
The fact is, that to ordinary folks, the whole process of getting to the airport, checking for tickets and passport, then checking in and security, is a bewildering experience once or twice a year.
Security staff really should chill, and stop taking this ridiculous critical attitude to people who are, after all, their paying customers. I think talking of an 'idiot tax' is beyond stupidity, and conceited beyond belief.
Until ALL the security check points are being used, security staff are in no position to criticise pax for causing the queues.
For example, one of my relatives flew recently for the very first time. He found the whole process from check in to bag weight to security, and little plastic bags bewildering. At security, he gets sternly 'told off' for not getting things right. This relative is seventy years old, but is by no means an idiot.
The fact is, that to ordinary folks, the whole process of getting to the airport, checking for tickets and passport, then checking in and security, is a bewildering experience once or twice a year.
Security staff really should chill, and stop taking this ridiculous critical attitude to people who are, after all, their paying customers. I think talking of an 'idiot tax' is beyond stupidity, and conceited beyond belief.
Until ALL the security check points are being used, security staff are in no position to criticise pax for causing the queues.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 394
Likes: 3
From: Singapore
Good post mate, we do all forget that not everyone is a frequent flyer. That said last week I was in the queue behind someone with a SIA Solitaire tag on his bag (you need to have flown 500,000 miles in Business Class to get this) and he still waited till he got to the front of the queue before getting his laptop out, liquids sorted etc.
Some pax do just switch their brains off when they get within a mile of an airport.
Some pax do just switch their brains off when they get within a mile of an airport.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 494
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From: Somewhere
Both the previous posts make very valid points - what worries me (and a bunch of MPs, God Bless 'em) is the obvious security / safety aspect of hundreds of pax milling about groundside - last Sunday at STN was a classic example; not to mention the effect on non-frequent flyers - there were some clearly perplexed and distressed ones. Somehow we need to funnel pax through to security more rapidly, how we do this, I don't know - more check-in staff, more use of on-line check-in?
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 32
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From: UK
27mm is correct. People 'try it on' with hand luggage because they have seen others break the rules or have got it away with it themselves. I have seen oversize hand luggage, I have seen heavy stuff that took 2 grown men to get into the overhead locker, I have seen people with 4 items of hand luggage excluding their duty free and so it goes on. If the existing regs were rigorously enforced the word get round and the problem would soon end.
The system doesn't grind to a halt becuase I have taken a small rollaboard AND a laptop bag, there aren't endless queues becuase we forgot to put our contact lense solution in a clear plastic bag, in fact there aren't really any queues at all... why? - Becuase there are a lot of security points, with a lot of polite, courteous and sensible security screeners who seem to keep the whole thing moving smoothly.... And this isn't at the expense of security, becuase people are always pulled aside for a bag search if anything out of the ordinary is spotted, and the clear plastic bag rule is spreading around here too.
In short it is the ineptitude and greed of BAA that causes all these problems.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1
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From: fife
Reading your dis-agreement to this new security measure, and the queues we now have to endure, working in this industry first hand- i have to say that our hands are tied and the airlines do get away with murder when it comes to one piece of baggage per person, i have yet to see any pax with one piece each
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 181
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From: Manchester
The issue of passengers being slow to pack their liquids etc into the plastic bags promptly is an indication of how overly complex air travel has become as much as of how some people are maybe a bit dumb.
Air travel is supposed to be a convenience (anyone remember those days?).
Many people fly maybe once a year, and unlike frequent flyers are not accustomed to the exact amount of ml of liquids they can carry, or the exact maximum dimensions of a bag. They are there to travel to another place, not take an exam in security procedures. The problems are caused by the process, not by the people. If the process causes this much trouble then it is failing. It is no wonder people are avoiding air travel for trains/cars/ferries.
Air travel is supposed to be a convenience (anyone remember those days?).
Many people fly maybe once a year, and unlike frequent flyers are not accustomed to the exact amount of ml of liquids they can carry, or the exact maximum dimensions of a bag. They are there to travel to another place, not take an exam in security procedures. The problems are caused by the process, not by the people. If the process causes this much trouble then it is failing. It is no wonder people are avoiding air travel for trains/cars/ferries.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: uk
autoglide,your observation about some people being a bit dumb is spot on....a psychologist friend of mine explained the simplicity of human society and behaviour in the western,capitalist system....he stated that 90% of the population are thick and the other 10% rip them off,that's how the system works....just apply this to any human activity and you will concur with his simplistic statement.just observe humans at airports,in supermarkets,outside football stadia,etc.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 103
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From: Norwich, UK
This kind of 'super-thick' behaviour occurs everywhere people expect to put their trust in others hands - air travel, rail travel - you name it!
It's as if the fact that someone else is perceived as being 'responsible' means that they don't have to take any responsibility for their own actions - this is, after all, a 'let's sue somebody if something goes wrong' society, so why do they need to think?
AMS are giving plastic bags away, situated in many places throughout the airport, although, strangely enough, mainly AFTER security!
It's as if the fact that someone else is perceived as being 'responsible' means that they don't have to take any responsibility for their own actions - this is, after all, a 'let's sue somebody if something goes wrong' society, so why do they need to think?
AMS are giving plastic bags away, situated in many places throughout the airport, although, strangely enough, mainly AFTER security!