Unbelievable BA story
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And for those who want to put the corpse in the lavs, will the doors fold inwards and there's nothing to tie the stiff to except the folded up baby changing table. One bit of turbulence and the body slides to the floor then you are left with the unedifying spectacle of trying to smash in the jammed lav door to get to the corpse on the ground.
So there's calls to 'turn back and land', and have strict protocols for storage of bodies?
What I meant was - since this has clearly happened on other flights, and will continue to happen - surely a policy must have been developed for dealing with the situation in the cabin. Not a "strict protocol", but at least general guidelines. Do you leave the body where it is, for example, or is there somewhere it can be stored? Do you leave it uncovered or not? Do you allow the relatives / travelling companions to accompany the body, or do you seperate them? I can fully understand that the cabin crew are given flexibility in how to deal with a distressing and difficult situation, but I can't believe there are no guidelines to assist them.
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This is always a question that comes up when we train new crew at BA.
What do you do with the body?
The toilet is always everybodys first instinct. But think about it. As has been said here already...it's your mother/sister/brother/aunt/wife/husbund/friend that's died. it's happened and your sat next to your loved ones dead body.
A crew member says "We're just moving them to the toillet".
Personally if it was my loved one I'd be outraged and want to be with them, and not with them in the toilet either! Someone also mentioned putting the body in a wardrobe, even worse!
It's a rare occurance, no doubt about it. Maybe yes a refund for the FIRST guests might be in order for having their flight disturbed in such a way. It's distressing for all concerned, but chiefly for the deceased's loved ones travelling with them. They are IMHO the people that in this situation need looking after.
Also in my experience FIRST guests are by far the nicest people on the aircraft and are an absolute pleasure to meet and get to know. They're at the top and have nothing to prove.
What do you do with the body?
The toilet is always everybodys first instinct. But think about it. As has been said here already...it's your mother/sister/brother/aunt/wife/husbund/friend that's died. it's happened and your sat next to your loved ones dead body.
A crew member says "We're just moving them to the toillet".
Personally if it was my loved one I'd be outraged and want to be with them, and not with them in the toilet either! Someone also mentioned putting the body in a wardrobe, even worse!
It's a rare occurance, no doubt about it. Maybe yes a refund for the FIRST guests might be in order for having their flight disturbed in such a way. It's distressing for all concerned, but chiefly for the deceased's loved ones travelling with them. They are IMHO the people that in this situation need looking after.
Also in my experience FIRST guests are by far the nicest people on the aircraft and are an absolute pleasure to meet and get to know. They're at the top and have nothing to prove.
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Let's say your average 70kg punter karks it in 35A.
You have a choice: put a blanket over them, eyeshades on and window shade down and strap them in tight; if any seats available elsewhere, move 35B and 35C.
Or, try to extricate the body (remember you're restricted to 32" pitch!) and move it to somewhere else. Do you:
a) get an F/A on each end to carry it (bearing in mind that each is carrying above the 32kg per-bag limit imposed upon baggabe handlers - not sure if F/As have a lifting limit? - but exposing them to weight-carrying dangers);
b) drag them down the cabin on their heels;
c) drag them down the aisle by their heels, arms dragging along;
d) if it's only a little old (light) granny, get one of the burlier F/As to hoik her up over their shoulder and march her down the aisle to the crew rest?
Oh, and do it all with dignity and without disturbing anyone else.
No, you keep it quiet. In F, you're disturbing at most 16 pax; ok, high value, but sling them 50,000 BA miles each or a companion ticket and they're happy. They're probably already loyal, have flown many times so know and trust the usual product and understand this is an unusual event. Not to say that you can p!55 them off, but you can exploit the loyalty in that you forelock-tug enough and they'll be sweet.
You have a choice: put a blanket over them, eyeshades on and window shade down and strap them in tight; if any seats available elsewhere, move 35B and 35C.
Or, try to extricate the body (remember you're restricted to 32" pitch!) and move it to somewhere else. Do you:
a) get an F/A on each end to carry it (bearing in mind that each is carrying above the 32kg per-bag limit imposed upon baggabe handlers - not sure if F/As have a lifting limit? - but exposing them to weight-carrying dangers);
b) drag them down the cabin on their heels;
c) drag them down the aisle by their heels, arms dragging along;
d) if it's only a little old (light) granny, get one of the burlier F/As to hoik her up over their shoulder and march her down the aisle to the crew rest?
Oh, and do it all with dignity and without disturbing anyone else.
No, you keep it quiet. In F, you're disturbing at most 16 pax; ok, high value, but sling them 50,000 BA miles each or a companion ticket and they're happy. They're probably already loyal, have flown many times so know and trust the usual product and understand this is an unusual event. Not to say that you can p!55 them off, but you can exploit the loyalty in that you forelock-tug enough and they'll be sweet.
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In all honesty it would be uncomfortable knowing that there was a cadaver on board, but to sit next to one! Was he really next to it? If they upgraded a son and daughter it sounds like they provided three seats, it's not difficult, especially in a first class cabin, to put as much space between the deceased and fare paying passengers.
As to saying the first class cabin is the quietest seems odd, it's not like anything is going to disturb her, but with limited choices at the time (yes, there probably should be a small area that can be used for this type of storage, but for this flight there wasn't) they did the best they could.
As to saying the first class cabin is the quietest seems odd, it's not like anything is going to disturb her, but with limited choices at the time (yes, there probably should be a small area that can be used for this type of storage, but for this flight there wasn't) they did the best they could.
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For the life of me, I can't understand "you people". It's a freaking body, man, not a chunk of Plutonium. Nothing will seep out and get you. And shortly before it was a living breathing human being.
Strap her into an empty seat. Cover her with a blanket. And carry on. Well done, BA. Last I checked, the death rate was still 100%. Those who have a problem will just have to get over it. Without compensation!
Strap her into an empty seat. Cover her with a blanket. And carry on. Well done, BA. Last I checked, the death rate was still 100%. Those who have a problem will just have to get over it. Without compensation!
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Having a medical background, and my respect to the family of the deceased passenger. I have read above posts as to the hygene aspects of a corpse.
Up to 12 hours (approx) from time of death there would be no problem of cross contamination of the corpse. After this time scale, bodily fluids may start to leak via anus/vagina due to the break down of enzymes in the gut.
That's why the undertakers stuff ones orifices with cotton wool. Hope your not eating dinner as you read.
Dave
Up to 12 hours (approx) from time of death there would be no problem of cross contamination of the corpse. After this time scale, bodily fluids may start to leak via anus/vagina due to the break down of enzymes in the gut.
That's why the undertakers stuff ones orifices with cotton wool. Hope your not eating dinner as you read.
Dave
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Geez O'Leary. Way too much information. I realise that you medics face it all day long, but I AM eating my dinner in 10 minutes.!
Years ago, when Pontius was a Pilate, I travelled on a Vanguard down to Lourdes on a Cheshire Homes charter. The outbound flight had taken them down, and we were picking these people up. The Lourdes trip was their final desperate trip to get cured or to get a bit better, or simply to get at peace with themselves. The Last Hurrah.
The mix of pax included Sick Pax/Nurses/Doctors/Helpers and so on. The inevitable happened and one pour soul died on board. When the Ch/Stwd came up and informed us, the Captain asked me to check what to do in the manual. When I read the procedure, he almost begged the Doc to certify the Pax dead AFTER engines off....it was much easier you see.!!
Years ago, when Pontius was a Pilate, I travelled on a Vanguard down to Lourdes on a Cheshire Homes charter. The outbound flight had taken them down, and we were picking these people up. The Lourdes trip was their final desperate trip to get cured or to get a bit better, or simply to get at peace with themselves. The Last Hurrah.
The mix of pax included Sick Pax/Nurses/Doctors/Helpers and so on. The inevitable happened and one pour soul died on board. When the Ch/Stwd came up and informed us, the Captain asked me to check what to do in the manual. When I read the procedure, he almost begged the Doc to certify the Pax dead AFTER engines off....it was much easier you see.!!
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he's after money
I'm sure the only reason this has surfaced again is that Mr Trinder has received a blow off letter about his request for compensation, and so has called the newspaper. I was just on another newsite, and up popped a google ad that said "got a story? Call the Sun on xxx and save agents fees" just like that!
BA probably should have stuffed him a few thousand or a free ticket or two, and this would never have surfaced in the press. Having a dead person next to you for so many hours isn't so bad, it happens. Having 2 people seriously keening for a few hours would seriously get on my nerves. Especially having paid a lot for the ticket.
Why didn't Mr Trinder just move to the now spare economy seats?
G
BA probably should have stuffed him a few thousand or a free ticket or two, and this would never have surfaced in the press. Having a dead person next to you for so many hours isn't so bad, it happens. Having 2 people seriously keening for a few hours would seriously get on my nerves. Especially having paid a lot for the ticket.
Why didn't Mr Trinder just move to the now spare economy seats?
G
Paxing All Over The World
The standard procedure is to place a plastic sheet under the body - a large bin liner will do - and that will prevent the upholstery or carpet getting any of materials that may be released. If you don't want more detail, then look away now. Whilst the body will start to breakdown after an interval, as DO'L states, once we are dead, our muscles cease to function and the various natural apertures of our body that are kept closed by muscles as a default, will open and seepage can occur. Not always and not always right away but a bin liner will do the trick.
Once again - this was a non story from last year until a newspaper decided to run it again and make some money out of it.
Once again - this was a non story from last year until a newspaper decided to run it again and make some money out of it.
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This is a real non story. When I worked at LHR, we had around 2 bodies arrive in the cabin of aircraft a week. I don't recall anyone making a fuss, or stamping feet because of the location of the body.
It has to go somewhere, and I have seen them in just about every place. From Economy, to first class, from the upstairs galley on a 747 classic, which was interesting when the undertakers had to take the body down the spiral staircase. I've seen them in the loo, and laid across 4 seats in the middle.
On the subject of Doctors, any doctor can pronounce life extinct, ie death, but only in certain circumstances can a doctor certify death, which is different. Until a doctor prounouces death, a body is still alive, although comon sence does play a part.
It has to go somewhere, and I have seen them in just about every place. From Economy, to first class, from the upstairs galley on a 747 classic, which was interesting when the undertakers had to take the body down the spiral staircase. I've seen them in the loo, and laid across 4 seats in the middle.
On the subject of Doctors, any doctor can pronounce life extinct, ie death, but only in certain circumstances can a doctor certify death, which is different. Until a doctor prounouces death, a body is still alive, although comon sence does play a part.
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Lou
Can't do that now though. Security, you see.
It is an interesting moral conundrum, and as Farrell pointed out, is an opportunity to show some compassion. On the other hand, AvMan has asked why a passenger paying a premium for his ticket gets to ride under exceedingly unfortunate circumstances.
The great pity is that this woman's death is now the subject of a newspaper article, which can only be discomfiting to her family. I wish that BA had quietly dealt with this after the fact and avoided making this a PR football.
BOFH
In the charter world, there was a story once circulating of where the cabin crew managed to put the body on the flight deck in the jump seat during a night flight.
It is an interesting moral conundrum, and as Farrell pointed out, is an opportunity to show some compassion. On the other hand, AvMan has asked why a passenger paying a premium for his ticket gets to ride under exceedingly unfortunate circumstances.
The great pity is that this woman's death is now the subject of a newspaper article, which can only be discomfiting to her family. I wish that BA had quietly dealt with this after the fact and avoided making this a PR football.
BOFH
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Desperate measures to get an upgrade on BA!
Taken from http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/19/ba_upgrade/
A first class British Airways passenger got short shrift from cabin crew after expressing his displeasure at waking up to find them maneovering a corpse into the seat next to him, the Daily Mirror reports.
The elderly woman had apparently died shortly after take-off, and was quickly upgraded from economy to first class
Building firm boss Paul Trinder, who'd stumped £3,000+ for the Boeing 747 flight from Delhi to London, recounted: "I woke up to see the crew manoeuvering what looked like a sack of potatoes into the seat. But slowly through the darkness I realised it was a body. The corpse was strapped into the seat but because of turbulence it kept slipping down on to the floor. It was horrific. The body had to be wedged in place with lots of pillows.
"Then the relatives were allowed to sit in First Class and spent the next five hours wailing and weeping. When I complained, I was told to 'get over it'. I was also told BA's corpse policy would remain 'unless I've got any better ideas'. In future, if I have a choice of airlines on a particular route I'll choose anyone but BA."
BA told the Daily Mirror: "We apologise, but our crew were working in difficult circumstances and chose the option they thought would cause least disruption."
Well, it's one way to get upgraded & I know the pax are desperate but...
...anyway, seriously - any prooners with a similar tale?
I know this sounds a bit horrible - but couldn't BA use the crew bunks on a 747 provided no crew were on rest? Tight fit but slightly more private for the deceased + their entourage don't you think?
A first class British Airways passenger got short shrift from cabin crew after expressing his displeasure at waking up to find them maneovering a corpse into the seat next to him, the Daily Mirror reports.
The elderly woman had apparently died shortly after take-off, and was quickly upgraded from economy to first class
Building firm boss Paul Trinder, who'd stumped £3,000+ for the Boeing 747 flight from Delhi to London, recounted: "I woke up to see the crew manoeuvering what looked like a sack of potatoes into the seat. But slowly through the darkness I realised it was a body. The corpse was strapped into the seat but because of turbulence it kept slipping down on to the floor. It was horrific. The body had to be wedged in place with lots of pillows.
"Then the relatives were allowed to sit in First Class and spent the next five hours wailing and weeping. When I complained, I was told to 'get over it'. I was also told BA's corpse policy would remain 'unless I've got any better ideas'. In future, if I have a choice of airlines on a particular route I'll choose anyone but BA."
BA told the Daily Mirror: "We apologise, but our crew were working in difficult circumstances and chose the option they thought would cause least disruption."
Well, it's one way to get upgraded & I know the pax are desperate but...
...anyway, seriously - any prooners with a similar tale?
I know this sounds a bit horrible - but couldn't BA use the crew bunks on a 747 provided no crew were on rest? Tight fit but slightly more private for the deceased + their entourage don't you think?
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I think the crew did a good job given the circumstances, and given the fact that our FCO do not give us any precise guidance regarding this, apart from what PAX has correctly said.
I know we need to keep the "dignity" of the deceased as well as respect the relatives' feelings and wishes, however I still do not know why they didn't think of putting the unfortunate lady to rest in the crew rest?! every bed has a seatbelt, could have been scured with extra pillows and possibly covered with as many blankets as needed.
I would see this as a much better solution, especially on a 747, even if that meant for the crew to have their rest on their jumpseats for a flight, IF they could rest anyway. I know that when I had a complicated incident on board I couldn't sleep or rest for over 2 days!!!
I know we need to keep the "dignity" of the deceased as well as respect the relatives' feelings and wishes, however I still do not know why they didn't think of putting the unfortunate lady to rest in the crew rest?! every bed has a seatbelt, could have been scured with extra pillows and possibly covered with as many blankets as needed.
I would see this as a much better solution, especially on a 747, even if that meant for the crew to have their rest on their jumpseats for a flight, IF they could rest anyway. I know that when I had a complicated incident on board I couldn't sleep or rest for over 2 days!!!
Paxing All Over The World
The thread is running in SLF forum and please realise that this is old news. ground_star, it's best to search for the thread before posting. The only reason it has cropped up again now, is that a Sunday newspaper decided it had no news and ran it again.
The crew bunks? How do you suggest they get it up there? How do the crew rest so that they can fly the aircraft? Sheesh.
One pax cannot accept that people die at inconvenient times. He is reported (and we know how reliable the papers are) to say that next time he will not fly with BA. So he knows which flight is not going to have a fatality?
Porche if you are asking about 'the lift to the hold', the reason is that there isn't one.
The crew bunks? How do you suggest they get it up there? How do the crew rest so that they can fly the aircraft? Sheesh.
One pax cannot accept that people die at inconvenient times. He is reported (and we know how reliable the papers are) to say that next time he will not fly with BA. So he knows which flight is not going to have a fatality?Porche if you are asking about 'the lift to the hold', the reason is that there isn't one.
Warning Toxic!
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The stairs up are a very, very tight spiral staircase. How do you manouevre a stiff up there? Then get it down again? Whose back gets knackered doing that? Why do people always feel they know better than a whole crew on the scene, handling the problem the best way they know how, and the way all other airlines do it?