Virgin Atlantic - an expensive mistake
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Virgin Atlantic - an expensive mistake
I've been a regular visitor to PPRUNE for some time, but never felt the need to post until today. We learned a very expensive lesson today about booking online with Virgin Atlantic and hope that our experience will avoid someone else making a simillar mistake.
At lunchtime today my wife booked an economy flight online to Orlando in June, but shortly after booking we realised that there was an error in the booking. She is to travel with me on a business trip but had not realised that my employer who booked my travel had booked me into Premium Economy for the return leg. Whilst I am a regular traveller, she is not and so was very distressed at the thought of a long haul flight sitting on her own in a different area of the plane. During her booking she had been offered the return leg for an additional £12 but had booked herself in economy for both outward and return flights by mistake.
I contacted Virgin's call centre this afternoon approx 3 hours after the booking was made. It was confirmed that the premium economy leg was available at an extra £12 and initially I was told that a £50 change fee would apply. Whilst this seemed to be quite expensive I accepted that it was our error and so a change fee would be reasonable on a restricted economy fare. During the remainder of the call the price to change my trip then started to escalate incrementally until by the end it was over £200 to make the change. The reasons given were various rules that apply to changes to restrictive fares and then because another factor had been forgotten that I was not clearly told about. I was also informed numerous times that if the original booking had been made via the call centre a cooling off period would apply, but not bookings from the website, and that I would always be better using the call centre in preference to the web site in future – this only served to rub salt into our wounds. I do not actually know the final cost of the change as the price was changing so frequently and seemingly calculated in the call centre lady’s head. I just wanted to ensure that my wife would not be on her own.
My wife is taking this trip with me because unfortunately I will be working abroad on her 40th birthday and so this was to be happy celebration. Whilst I usually fly British Airways we had decided to try Virgin this time and were feeling very confident about our decision. This significant extra charge (which we hadn’t budgeted for) has now left my wife very disillusioned and depressed about the trip which was to form part of her 40th celebrations, and has left both of us feeling very let down by Virgin Atlantic over a simple mistake which we accept was ours.
I can see that a reasonable change fee would be made in addition to charging the difference in the booked and intended fare in order to correct our error. However we are very unhappy that an error on our part notified within 3 hours of booking a flight in June 2007 where the same fare was still available after our amendment was confirmed has cost in excess of £200. I guess Virgin played it by the book, but would have hoped for some compassion from I company which I perceived to offer good customer service. I also learned that the distance selling cooling off period does not apply to travel bookings.
A lesson learned sadly.
At lunchtime today my wife booked an economy flight online to Orlando in June, but shortly after booking we realised that there was an error in the booking. She is to travel with me on a business trip but had not realised that my employer who booked my travel had booked me into Premium Economy for the return leg. Whilst I am a regular traveller, she is not and so was very distressed at the thought of a long haul flight sitting on her own in a different area of the plane. During her booking she had been offered the return leg for an additional £12 but had booked herself in economy for both outward and return flights by mistake.
I contacted Virgin's call centre this afternoon approx 3 hours after the booking was made. It was confirmed that the premium economy leg was available at an extra £12 and initially I was told that a £50 change fee would apply. Whilst this seemed to be quite expensive I accepted that it was our error and so a change fee would be reasonable on a restricted economy fare. During the remainder of the call the price to change my trip then started to escalate incrementally until by the end it was over £200 to make the change. The reasons given were various rules that apply to changes to restrictive fares and then because another factor had been forgotten that I was not clearly told about. I was also informed numerous times that if the original booking had been made via the call centre a cooling off period would apply, but not bookings from the website, and that I would always be better using the call centre in preference to the web site in future – this only served to rub salt into our wounds. I do not actually know the final cost of the change as the price was changing so frequently and seemingly calculated in the call centre lady’s head. I just wanted to ensure that my wife would not be on her own.
My wife is taking this trip with me because unfortunately I will be working abroad on her 40th birthday and so this was to be happy celebration. Whilst I usually fly British Airways we had decided to try Virgin this time and were feeling very confident about our decision. This significant extra charge (which we hadn’t budgeted for) has now left my wife very disillusioned and depressed about the trip which was to form part of her 40th celebrations, and has left both of us feeling very let down by Virgin Atlantic over a simple mistake which we accept was ours.
I can see that a reasonable change fee would be made in addition to charging the difference in the booked and intended fare in order to correct our error. However we are very unhappy that an error on our part notified within 3 hours of booking a flight in June 2007 where the same fare was still available after our amendment was confirmed has cost in excess of £200. I guess Virgin played it by the book, but would have hoped for some compassion from I company which I perceived to offer good customer service. I also learned that the distance selling cooling off period does not apply to travel bookings.
A lesson learned sadly.
Bludger extraordinaire
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BrummyGit
I am not at the business end of things and I would never condone lying. If you are able to convince Mrs BrummyGit that for example:
"Virgin agreed to look after it"
"It won't cost anything near that" (having contrived to make it seem even more expensive)
"We have come to an agreement"
"It's worth it to treat you"
In essense, not lying, but being economical with the truth, you may in the meantime attempt to gain some clemency from Virgin - as unlikely as it would seem.
To have Mrs BrummyGit feel at ease must surely (I say with temerity) be worth it.
The alternative is to downgrade yourself voluntarily, which, if you are unwilling to be devious or stump up, appears to be the only option. The 200 GBP can be spent most productively when you are there!
In any event, please don't let this sour your trip.
BOFH
(I have been in a similar position, and was devious
)
I am not at the business end of things and I would never condone lying. If you are able to convince Mrs BrummyGit that for example:
"Virgin agreed to look after it"
"It won't cost anything near that" (having contrived to make it seem even more expensive)
"We have come to an agreement"
"It's worth it to treat you"
In essense, not lying, but being economical with the truth, you may in the meantime attempt to gain some clemency from Virgin - as unlikely as it would seem.
To have Mrs BrummyGit feel at ease must surely (I say with temerity) be worth it.
The alternative is to downgrade yourself voluntarily, which, if you are unwilling to be devious or stump up, appears to be the only option. The 200 GBP can be spent most productively when you are there!
In any event, please don't let this sour your trip.
BOFH
(I have been in a similar position, and was devious
)
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Sadly I was honest with her and it ended in real tears - she was upset and said that it was her retail therapy money gone and it had soured the trip for her. She feels truely ripped off.
Whilst I know we made the mistake - for a £12 fare difference over £200 penalty just feels like a bitter pill to swallow. However I told the Virgin call centre agent to go ahead with the changes as I couldn't have sat in my seat knowing Mrs BrummyGit was elsewhere on the plane, on her own and feeling miserable.
My post was just to warn others that there are differences between online booking and the call centres, and that Virgin (and I guess most other airlines) are really only interested in your money despite what you may perceive from their reputations and marketing.
I have written to Virgin customer services to tell them how I fell but I don't hold out much hope.
Whilst I know we made the mistake - for a £12 fare difference over £200 penalty just feels like a bitter pill to swallow. However I told the Virgin call centre agent to go ahead with the changes as I couldn't have sat in my seat knowing Mrs BrummyGit was elsewhere on the plane, on her own and feeling miserable.
My post was just to warn others that there are differences between online booking and the call centres, and that Virgin (and I guess most other airlines) are really only interested in your money despite what you may perceive from their reputations and marketing.
I have written to Virgin customer services to tell them how I fell but I don't hold out much hope.
Paxing All Over The World
Yes - do pursue VS. I have been using them for 20 years and consider them a good airline to travel with. I am sure that you will find PE is worth it.
These kind of mistakes are happening to folks all around the world as we move from the time of booking through an experienced travel agent who caught all the loop holes for us - to the time of the web when we have to learn the loop holes. Fare Classes are a real nightmare for even the most experienced agent.
These kind of mistakes are happening to folks all around the world as we move from the time of booking through an experienced travel agent who caught all the loop holes for us - to the time of the web when we have to learn the loop holes. Fare Classes are a real nightmare for even the most experienced agent.
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Sorry to hear that, Brummy Git. Aside from following PAXboy's advice (and I'd suggest pen to paper rather than finger to keyboard), you might contemplate sacrificing your birthday and/or Christmas presents from your good wife to assauge the situation.
Everybody makes mistakes - but life is too short to worry about 200 GBP. Cheer up - you could have ended up like the German chap who wanted to go to Sydney and ended up in Sidney, Montana!
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/03...german_to.html
BOFH
* booked a train journey from London to Hamburg, not realising he needed a visa for France in those days - 320GBP
* Unused bumped passenger vouchers sitting in drawer for seven years - 1000 DM
* Misquoted flight - 250 GBP
* other wastes of money too numerous to mention
Everybody makes mistakes - but life is too short to worry about 200 GBP. Cheer up - you could have ended up like the German chap who wanted to go to Sydney and ended up in Sidney, Montana!
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/03...german_to.html
BOFH
* booked a train journey from London to Hamburg, not realising he needed a visa for France in those days - 320GBP
* Unused bumped passenger vouchers sitting in drawer for seven years - 1000 DM
* Misquoted flight - 250 GBP
* other wastes of money too numerous to mention
I've worked in a number of other commercial areas and there are just as many errors made there too, by customers, agents and own staff.
Aviation seems unique in its ability in these situations to enjoy stiffing their revenue source, their customers, for not being completely in compliance with their complex requirements. There is a desire to pocket the money the instant it is paid and never, ever, to return it, and also to grossly overcharge for making any corrections. Elsewhere it is just one of those things a business needs to sort out as part of day-to-day life.
The British pax who booked on a website to Sydney in Canada instead of Australia was a good point. How could anybody be so stupid ? Well, if you looked at the website of the major booking agency they used, in the list of destinations they were not shown as "Canada" and "Australia", but as Sydney NS (for Nova Scotia) and Sydney NSW (for New South Wales). And so instead of writing in plain language, things were reduced to industryspeak. The confirmations likewise came also saying just Sydney NS and YQY, no mention of any country. And then the industry laughs at those who may get confused.
Aviation seems unique in its ability in these situations to enjoy stiffing their revenue source, their customers, for not being completely in compliance with their complex requirements. There is a desire to pocket the money the instant it is paid and never, ever, to return it, and also to grossly overcharge for making any corrections. Elsewhere it is just one of those things a business needs to sort out as part of day-to-day life.
The British pax who booked on a website to Sydney in Canada instead of Australia was a good point. How could anybody be so stupid ? Well, if you looked at the website of the major booking agency they used, in the list of destinations they were not shown as "Canada" and "Australia", but as Sydney NS (for Nova Scotia) and Sydney NSW (for New South Wales). And so instead of writing in plain language, things were reduced to industryspeak. The confirmations likewise came also saying just Sydney NS and YQY, no mention of any country. And then the industry laughs at those who may get confused.
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I don't necessarily find this situation (escalating change fees) unique to Virgin, however, the strict no-change policy on web bookings seems a bit out of place. Most air carriers in the states have a 24 hour policy, which has saved me when I found I booked the wrong weekend 2 hours later. One call to Delta, and *bing*, the change was made with NO FEES.
If you pursue with Virgin, I'd stress the different set of rules that they have for phone v. web bookings. Seems like they want people to book on the web because its more convenient for them, but if you do things the way they don't want you to do, they actually provide you with more flexibility. They do seem to have it reversed.
...and if that makes no sense, I'll plead "no caffiene"
If you pursue with Virgin, I'd stress the different set of rules that they have for phone v. web bookings. Seems like they want people to book on the web because its more convenient for them, but if you do things the way they don't want you to do, they actually provide you with more flexibility. They do seem to have it reversed.
...and if that makes no sense, I'll plead "no caffiene"
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BrummyGit
Whilst I have sympathy with your plight I would like to point out that Virgin Atlantic's terms and conditions are clearly laid out on their website. I know on good authority that call centre staff do not have the means to "decide prices in their heads"; the fares displayed on thier screens reflect the seat prices available at that time and these, believe me, can change by the minute. The staff do not have the authority to override this.
My best advice to you would be to email their customer relations department; they are a friendly bunch and Virgin prides itself on its customer service. Travel with them this time and I feel sure you will not want to go elsewhere.
Whilst I have sympathy with your plight I would like to point out that Virgin Atlantic's terms and conditions are clearly laid out on their website. I know on good authority that call centre staff do not have the means to "decide prices in their heads"; the fares displayed on thier screens reflect the seat prices available at that time and these, believe me, can change by the minute. The staff do not have the authority to override this.
My best advice to you would be to email their customer relations department; they are a friendly bunch and Virgin prides itself on its customer service. Travel with them this time and I feel sure you will not want to go elsewhere.
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Hi Ground Bound
As for the prices being clearly laid out I cannot agree - the operator I spoke to put me on hold for ages to get a "second opinion on something" and twice stated "Oh I forgot about xxxx, so that will add £nn" so it really appeared like a make it up as you go along process which went from the fare difference of £12 + £50 change fee incrementally up to over £200 in a couple of minutes - and the differences were always changes to the fee with the £12 fare always staying fixed.
However I have emailed their customer services on Monday evening and so far I've heard absolutely nothing other than an automatic response with a case reference. I was hoping for a little compassion and understanding as we can all make mistakes, but we'll have to see the final outcome.
Either way I intend to enjoy the trip to the USA with my wife for her 40th, and that includes the flights. It's just sad that the type of personality she is, it has soured the experience for her.
Steve
"Whilst I have sympathy with your plight I would like to point out that Virgin Atlantic's terms and conditions are clearly laid out on their website. I know on good authority that call centre staff do not have the means to "decide prices in their heads"; the fares displayed on thier screens reflect the seat prices available at that time and these, believe me, can change by the minute. The staff do not have the authority to override this."
I would never deny the mistake was ours - We made a mistake and had hoped for a little flexibility on something which really is insignificant to change 3 hours after making an E-Ticket booking for a June departure.As for the prices being clearly laid out I cannot agree - the operator I spoke to put me on hold for ages to get a "second opinion on something" and twice stated "Oh I forgot about xxxx, so that will add £nn" so it really appeared like a make it up as you go along process which went from the fare difference of £12 + £50 change fee incrementally up to over £200 in a couple of minutes - and the differences were always changes to the fee with the £12 fare always staying fixed.
However I have emailed their customer services on Monday evening and so far I've heard absolutely nothing other than an automatic response with a case reference. I was hoping for a little compassion and understanding as we can all make mistakes, but we'll have to see the final outcome.
Either way I intend to enjoy the trip to the USA with my wife for her 40th, and that includes the flights. It's just sad that the type of personality she is, it has soured the experience for her.
Steve
Last edited by BrummyGit; 8th Feb 2007 at 18:34.
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Write to Mr. B
Well, unless things have changed over the years, your best bet is to write very politely, directly to Mr B himself. I have seen miracles happen to people who do so.
Momo
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Brummy, sorry to hear of your experience, however are you SURE the offer was £12 ? I've only ever seen Premium Economy available from c£200 each way, and I've always used online to book. Used it for the first time a couple of years ago and have booked the same again this year, despite it adding a couple of grand to the family holiday. I think if PE upgrade was available at £12, it would be unavailable within minutes, due to full take up.
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Yes, I'm certain and this was confirmed to me by the Virgin call centre operator as well (who was also surpised how cheap it was working out).
In fact my employer booked myself and a colleague on PE at £12 each for the return leg. Outbound it was around £200 each which we didn't go for, but as the return is overnight my employer added it so we could sleep - and hence the start of these troubles getting my wife sorted.
I'm still waiting for a response to my email sent on Monday evening so I reckon it is in the "wait a week and then reply saying nothiing we can do" pile.
In fact my employer booked myself and a colleague on PE at £12 each for the return leg. Outbound it was around £200 each which we didn't go for, but as the return is overnight my employer added it so we could sleep - and hence the start of these troubles getting my wife sorted.
I'm still waiting for a response to my email sent on Monday evening so I reckon it is in the "wait a week and then reply saying nothiing we can do" pile.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Say the cheapest economy fare is £200 return (+ tax, which we'll ignore for the moment). The discount WT+ fare may be priced at a supplement of £200 each way, so a total of £600. If you book when the cheapest economy fare is available, you might see an offer to "upgrade" for £200 outbound, and £200 inbound. (I put "upgrade" in quotes, because the reality is that it's simply asking if you'd like to buy WT+ instead of economy, rather than it being a fee to upgrade.)
But if the cheapest economy fares are sold out, then you might see something different. If the lowest available economy fare is now £500 return, but discount WT+ is still available, then the website might offer you an "upgrade" at £50 outbound and £50 return.
Sometimes, the cheapest economy fare will be sold out in one direction but not the other. So you may be quoted £350 return in economy, composed of half the £200 fare on the way out, and half the £500 fare on the return. So the website will now ask you if you'd like to upgrade for £200 on the outbound, or £50 on the return.
Of course, when tax is added, you'll find that one of the extra extras, as it were, is the extra £40 tax for travelling in a premium cabin.
My suspicion is that something similar happened here to make the extra fare £12 in one direction.
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My faith in Virgin has been restored
My wife took a call yesterday from Virgin Customer Services who said that whilst the original call centre operator had followed the rules correctly, they could see from their records that it was obviously a genuine mistake and so agreed to reduce the charge to £13 extra fare + £50 change fee. It was originally £12 for the premium economy upgrade but I won't quibble over £1 and I think it is reasonable to charge a change fee of sorts to deter customers from making mistakes too easily (although in a purely electronic process I guess they more than covered their costs).
So our bill dropped from £209 to £63 for the upgrade which was enough for my wife to start looking forward to her trip again.
Well done Virgin for having some compassion and customer service
My wife took a call yesterday from Virgin Customer Services who said that whilst the original call centre operator had followed the rules correctly, they could see from their records that it was obviously a genuine mistake and so agreed to reduce the charge to £13 extra fare + £50 change fee. It was originally £12 for the premium economy upgrade but I won't quibble over £1 and I think it is reasonable to charge a change fee of sorts to deter customers from making mistakes too easily (although in a purely electronic process I guess they more than covered their costs).
So our bill dropped from £209 to £63 for the upgrade which was enough for my wife to start looking forward to her trip again.
Well done Virgin for having some compassion and customer service
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Well, how about that!
Hopefully BrummyLady will enjoy spending the 146GBP when it's turned into dollars. I hope you have a wonderful trip.
Globaliser
The point you make is absolutely correct. They seem to be banking on people signing up for an upgrade, seeing it's more expensive, but thinking 'bugger it' and proceeding.
BOFH
Hopefully BrummyLady will enjoy spending the 146GBP when it's turned into dollars. I hope you have a wonderful trip.
Globaliser
The point you make is absolutely correct. They seem to be banking on people signing up for an upgrade, seeing it's more expensive, but thinking 'bugger it' and proceeding.
BOFH
"upgrade costs"
Globaliser. I have had exactly this happen with BA. The WT upgrade one direction was less that $100 and the other way it was around $ 400.
When I went back to book the next day the cheap one was gone for that day but was available the next day.
It really can be a bit of a snake pit.
20driver
When I went back to book the next day the cheap one was gone for that day but was available the next day.
It really can be a bit of a snake pit.
20driver
