Air Berlin - how do they do it?
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Air Berlin - how do they do it?
Just flown Air Berlin from Dusseldorf to Stansted, and it was great. More legroom than usual, food and drinks for free, clean cabin and a generally nice overall trip. Much more than I expected from a low-cost carrier.
Recently I've flown Jet2, Ryanair, SkyEurope, Air Baltic, Estonian Air, SAS and Air Berlin beats them all. It even beat my Lufthansa flight to Franfurt. Compared to the traditional LC, they go the extra mile. One of the best airlines I've flown.
So how can they do this and make money?
Recently I've flown Jet2, Ryanair, SkyEurope, Air Baltic, Estonian Air, SAS and Air Berlin beats them all. It even beat my Lufthansa flight to Franfurt. Compared to the traditional LC, they go the extra mile. One of the best airlines I've flown.
So how can they do this and make money?
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Flock1 Re Air Berlin
You are right Air Berlin is super, great service and nice planes generally. They have lost a lot of money over the last few years but they certainly have a big future. They are projecting a profit this year and have recently taken over DBA, and the previously operated DBA aircraft are branded, Air Berlin 'powered by DBA'.
Its an interesting question, generally in low cost airlines the trimmings dont make for helping the bottom line directly, as these trimmings become a cost centre rather than a profit centre , like at most other LCCs. I wouldnt be surprised if they cut back somewhat. There hub at STN seems to be working quite well too!
The current climate in airline profitability is generally positive in Europe, considering the highs in fuel prices in the recent times.!! More people travelling than before etc.
Its an interesting question, generally in low cost airlines the trimmings dont make for helping the bottom line directly, as these trimmings become a cost centre rather than a profit centre , like at most other LCCs. I wouldnt be surprised if they cut back somewhat. There hub at STN seems to be working quite well too!
The current climate in airline profitability is generally positive in Europe, considering the highs in fuel prices in the recent times.!! More people travelling than before etc.
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People will always choose quality of experience over price when it gets to a point where the price difference between products or providers is small.
When LCCs reach a plateau and are all charging a few euros for the same flight, then airlines are going to have to try different tactics to lure customers into their cabins.
Air Berlin are realising this mostly because the LLC market in Germany is nearing that point now. There is only so cheap you can go before before you hit bottom and have no more financial carrots on sticks left.
That's when you have to start spending some of that profit back on the customers again!
When LCCs reach a plateau and are all charging a few euros for the same flight, then airlines are going to have to try different tactics to lure customers into their cabins.
Air Berlin are realising this mostly because the LLC market in Germany is nearing that point now. There is only so cheap you can go before before you hit bottom and have no more financial carrots on sticks left.
That's when you have to start spending some of that profit back on the customers again!
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Farrell
Interesting as I thought that the German market still had some way to go but I have no tbeen there for more than a year.
I would have thought that the UK market hit the financial bottom more than a year ago but there seems no sign of the Brits wanting anything other than to pay the smallest amount possible and ignore all and any blandishments about service and experience.
...because the LLC market in Germany is nearing that point now. There is only so cheap you can go before before you hit bottom and have no more financial carrots on sticks left.
I would have thought that the UK market hit the financial bottom more than a year ago but there seems no sign of the Brits wanting anything other than to pay the smallest amount possible and ignore all and any blandishments about service and experience.
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air berlin
Wish Air Berlin operated to/from Ireland.
Ryanair and Aer Lingus have gone as 'low' as they can with the level of service to their customers.
In fact anecdotal evidence suggests a lot of people prefer AL to RA for what they perceive is a better service and will fly AL even if it costs a few Euro more.
It is true when things go wrong there is a better chance AL will get you home unlike RA which simply cancel the flight and leave you to your own devices. Pity really because if Ryanair did not happen we would not have the low cost fares we have to-day.
Ryanair and Aer Lingus have gone as 'low' as they can with the level of service to their customers.
In fact anecdotal evidence suggests a lot of people prefer AL to RA for what they perceive is a better service and will fly AL even if it costs a few Euro more.
It is true when things go wrong there is a better chance AL will get you home unlike RA which simply cancel the flight and leave you to your own devices. Pity really because if Ryanair did not happen we would not have the low cost fares we have to-day.
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Are you sure food and drink were free. I was on the Glasgow-Stansted the other week and we had to pay. 27 passengers on the way down and about 50 on the way back, both in Fokker 100.
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Yeah Free. Mind you, some of it was a bit lacking, but my point was, that I expected nothing at all.
Manchester-Stansted (chocolate bar and hot or cold drink.
Stansted - Dusseldorf (ham or cheese sandwich and hot or cold drink)
Dusselfdorf - Stansted (cheese or chicken and hot/cold drink)
Stansted-Manchester (packet of crisps!!!! and hot/cold drink)
And the 738 on the first leg had those fancy TV monitors with a moving map at choice intervals throughout the cabin. Reminded me of Finnair.
Flock
Manchester-Stansted (chocolate bar and hot or cold drink.
Stansted - Dusseldorf (ham or cheese sandwich and hot or cold drink)
Dusselfdorf - Stansted (cheese or chicken and hot/cold drink)
Stansted-Manchester (packet of crisps!!!! and hot/cold drink)
And the 738 on the first leg had those fancy TV monitors with a moving map at choice intervals throughout the cabin. Reminded me of Finnair.
Flock
PAXboy, I think that Germans generally have slightly higher expectations/standards. LTU offer an attractively priced COMFORT CLASS on most of their European destinations and it's very popular. I use them quite often.
Runway 31 & Flock1, I don't know what Air Berlin's service policy is on UK domestics - it may well be different to their international flights. However, to clarify a small point, they offer a sandwich and soft drink free. Any hot meals, other snacks and alcohol is charged for. Air Berlin certainly gets my vote as best LCC at present. It only remains to be seen if they can keep it up.
Runway 31 & Flock1, I don't know what Air Berlin's service policy is on UK domestics - it may well be different to their international flights. However, to clarify a small point, they offer a sandwich and soft drink free. Any hot meals, other snacks and alcohol is charged for. Air Berlin certainly gets my vote as best LCC at present. It only remains to be seen if they can keep it up.
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As a regular Dusseldorf pax, I hear good things about Air Berlin from my colleagues over there. However my last trip with BA (about a week's notice - travelling out Sunday lunchtime, back last flight Monday) cost only £95.80 (inclusive of taxes), significantly cheaper than Air Berlin. Admittedly BA's idea of Sunday lunch was a Jordan's muesli bar, which sounds like that's one up to Air Berlin.
I'd like to give them a try, if only Stansted wasn't such a pain to get to from my home.
I'd like to give them a try, if only Stansted wasn't such a pain to get to from my home.
Paxing All Over The World
Avman
Yes, that was my view after working in MUC for 18 months! I thought that they were very sensible about a great deal and I hope that they do not slide down the same scale that we have in the UK.
I think that Germans generally have slightly higher expectations/standards.
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Have used AB twice recently - for BHD-STN-VIE (return) in October and BHD-STN (return) in November. In October, both the outbound legs and both inbound legs were all but full on a 737-700. The same aircraft was rostered to do BHD-STN and also STN-VIE, and vice versa on the return flights. Offerings of ham or cheese rolls and a soft cold drink or tea/coffee were fine. Beer/wine etc were available for a price.
The aircraft were clean, tidy, and the crew uber efficient and pleasant. Comfort was fine (I need to use a walking stick for comfort and getting to a window seat is sometimes a tight and difficult task with some other locos), the atmosphere was comfortable and welcoming, though sitting on the apron in Belfast listening to the safety announcements in German is still a little odd.
Pre-allocated seating is a major bonus.
I'd have no hesitation in using them again. Let's hope they stay long on the Belfast route and can offer even more connections from their STN hub - Salzburg perhaps, if anyone at AB is reading???
The aircraft were clean, tidy, and the crew uber efficient and pleasant. Comfort was fine (I need to use a walking stick for comfort and getting to a window seat is sometimes a tight and difficult task with some other locos), the atmosphere was comfortable and welcoming, though sitting on the apron in Belfast listening to the safety announcements in German is still a little odd.
Pre-allocated seating is a major bonus.I'd have no hesitation in using them again. Let's hope they stay long on the Belfast route and can offer even more connections from their STN hub - Salzburg perhaps, if anyone at AB is reading???
Quite agree on the service generally with Air Berlin. Flew GLA-STN on 28th Dec. Airbus 320 was full. Then STN to DUS on Fokker 100. Also full. Good service and leg room both sectors.
However on checkin at GLA they would not (at so called request of Air Berlin Stansted) check hold baggage all way through to DUS. Bags had to be reclaimed at STN and then checkin again and go through security again. Beuaty of Air Berlin is that bags are meant to be checked all the way through to destination even with a transit at STN.
On another small note - flew LTU from DUS down to Malaga (AGP) on Wednesday. Grt flight. Surpassed Air Berlin. They gave Pasta and Chicken lunch, free soft and hot colds and even a small liquer free. Also had IFE avaialable at 2.50 euros. Nice one LTU!
Nivsy
However on checkin at GLA they would not (at so called request of Air Berlin Stansted) check hold baggage all way through to DUS. Bags had to be reclaimed at STN and then checkin again and go through security again. Beuaty of Air Berlin is that bags are meant to be checked all the way through to destination even with a transit at STN.
On another small note - flew LTU from DUS down to Malaga (AGP) on Wednesday. Grt flight. Surpassed Air Berlin. They gave Pasta and Chicken lunch, free soft and hot colds and even a small liquer free. Also had IFE avaialable at 2.50 euros. Nice one LTU!
Nivsy
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air berlin
It is obvious from the posts here that PAX are prepared to pay a 'slightly' higher fare for -
(a) assigned seat;
(b) more leg room;
(c) some food/drink perhaps - depending on length of journey;
(d) better customer relations when things go wrong, etc.
Again I ask the question any possibility of Air Berlin operating out of DUB?
Are they afraid of Ryanair and maybe Aer Lingus?
Ryanair have been great getting fares down but I for one am getting a bit tired of the way they operate - especially when things go wrong.
There are so many examples of Ryanair leaving people to their own devices at 'foreign' airports when planes go 'tech' or derhaps due to adverse weather.
Does anyone know how Air Berlin or LTU behave in these scenarios?
(a) assigned seat;
(b) more leg room;
(c) some food/drink perhaps - depending on length of journey;
(d) better customer relations when things go wrong, etc.
Again I ask the question any possibility of Air Berlin operating out of DUB?
Are they afraid of Ryanair and maybe Aer Lingus?
Ryanair have been great getting fares down but I for one am getting a bit tired of the way they operate - especially when things go wrong.
There are so many examples of Ryanair leaving people to their own devices at 'foreign' airports when planes go 'tech' or derhaps due to adverse weather.
Does anyone know how Air Berlin or LTU behave in these scenarios?
Not sure if LTU really qualifies as an LCC, but generally they're pretty good if things go t1ts up. As I've had no problems with my Air Berlin flights so far, I have no experience of their customer service when things go wrong.
With regard to your comment that people are willing to pay a little more for some extra service and assurance, you're right. However, they are still the minority. The great majority only have the brains (I use the word cautiously) to look at the cheapest fare without any regard to the bigger picture. LCCs feed off these "customers". I have no problem with people who are willing to accept the risks of flying cheap, but what I don't like is how so many legacy carriers have gone down the same route, giving us no other option.
With regard to your comment that people are willing to pay a little more for some extra service and assurance, you're right. However, they are still the minority. The great majority only have the brains (I use the word cautiously) to look at the cheapest fare without any regard to the bigger picture. LCCs feed off these "customers". I have no problem with people who are willing to accept the risks of flying cheap, but what I don't like is how so many legacy carriers have gone down the same route, giving us no other option.
With you 100% on that AVMAN . I just want to visit The Island for a short trip and know my flights will run according to my booking , just like the good old days .
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but ask yourself: if you were Air Berlin, who doesn't currently compete much with Ryanair, and if you could grow your operations in a variety of promising directions, what could make you choose Dublin, given that Ryanair has very aggressively demonstrated its commitment to seeing off any other LCCs competing seriously with it in the Irish market (Go, then easyJet)? All the more so given that if Air Berlin were to serve Dublin the logical link would be to their Stansted hub, and DUB-STN is IIRC one of Ryanair's densest routes. This would seem to put any AB decision to serve Dublin into the "turkeys-voting-for-Christmas" category.
