Bumpy landing at Birmingham 7.20am this morning

[Maddie]

Hello

Just wondering would anybody know on a scale of one to ten how the wind at BHX early this morning would rate. The slightest rumble scares me, but this morning I thought the landing was quite bumpy. We were told to expect a bit of turbulence on take off and landing but to me, a very nervous flyer, it was more than 'a bit' bumpy. Despite my very genuine fears I do alot of commuter flights trying to balance work and home, and I have only experienced a landing like this morning a couple of times before.

Any words of re-assurance you can give are appreciated.

Thanks very much.

[Felix Saddler]

Bit of Wind and a bit or turbulence - pretty normal for this time of year.

[cessna l plate]

You proably don't want to hear this, but landing a plane is something of a black art. It is not something that can be taught by numbers but only by experience. On a nice calm day with the little wind coming straight at you then the job is to make the rubber kiss the tarmac nicely. The sad part is that in the UK this is rarely the case. In a decent crosswind or with windshear about it becomes a case of getting it down safely and quickly. The old phrase that all pilots know is "A good landing - passengers walk away. A great landing - the plane can be used again afterwards"

As I say this is not really what you want to hear, but as a landing is only as good as the pilots experience, draw some comfort from the fact that even a humble ppl will have carried out several hundred landing during training alone, the guy flying you in an airliner will have done thousands of them.

[13Alpha]

Hi Maddie,

I used to be a pretty nervous flyer. A new job which has involved nearly 200 flight sectors in the last two years has helped cure me

Other things which helped me were the realisations that:

- the things that were happening in my life ON THE GROUND were a big factor influencing my anxiety in the air
- I was usually less anxious when flying home than flying away - (so maybe the issue was more about the place I was going to than how I was getting there)
- anxiety about flying can sometimes be caused by the feeling of not being in control - so making use of what control you do have can help (e.g. choosing a seat in the middle where turbulence feels less, or getting a window seat so you can see what's going on)
- planes are heavily overengineered
- pilots are well trained and very experienced.
- airline procedures ensure that landings and take-offs only happen when the weather is within safe limits
- air travel overall is VERY safe

I flew into London City on Monday morning and as a result of the 30 mph crosswind, from my window seat I saw straight down the runway for a large part of the approach. For me it was damned impressive to have that perspective (very smooth landing by the way - BA8703 from EDI )

However what seemed pretty remarkable for me was all in a days work for the pilot and well within the capabilities of the aircraft.

So, no reason to be anxious !

hope this helps

13Alpha

[CheekyVisual]

As someone who regularly does battle with the interseting winds at BHX I am not surprised to hear it was bumpy. BHX seems to have some very unusual wind effects in the last couple of miles of the approach. I suspect this is due to the small hill just to the side of the airfield. Not big enough to see but sets up some intersting wind. 15 the southerly facing runway is particularly bumpy even in relatively light winds and 33 has a couple of big "holes in the sky" on approach. Makes life more fun though. We do try and keep it as smooth as we can sometimes it just ain't possible.

I hope that explains it and doesn't put you off too much. If the wind is too bad we won't land so although it can feel a bit uncomfortable it is perfectly safe.

[Avman]

Maddie, although being bumped about can feel unpleasant be reassured that your aeroplane can take it without any problem. It might not be as common over here but in some parts of the world it is and passengers are quite used to it. Of course, the smaller the aircraft the more pronounced it might be. Try and avoid sitting in or near the back as there you will be treated to extra discomfort from elevator and rudder corrections. Again, it's quite normal but can be unpleasant for some. Strangely enough I quite enjoy a tricky bumpy approach as it makes a change from the usual boring flying. I recall a particular one (also at BHX) in an A319 some years back. We were thrown all over the place on the approach and made a firm but good landing. I enjoyed every minute!

[fireflybob]

I believe the original runway at Elmdon (now Bham airport) was RW 24 since the prevailing winds in UK tend to be southwesterly.

When aircraft requiring longer runways came along they could not extend RW 24 easily due to a railway line at one end and a housing estate at the other end. So they built RW 33 which is at 90 degrees to runway 24 and hence you often take off and land RW 33 with a significant crosswind. This coupled with the topography makes for some interesting approaches etc.

[Doors to Automatic]

I know a couple of BHX staff who have an office on the 5th floor. They have shared some particularly hair-raising stories with me about landing attempts in high wind.

It is worse when from the SW and 33 is in use as the hangars cause windshear just at the point of touchdown. This can lead to some last second go-arounds!

[goshdarnit]

There's a great video of a TAP A321 attempting to land at LIS in what is obviously a very strong wind, pilot couldn't get it down and the end of the short clip sees the engines spooling up and the plane heading for a go-round.
It has been around for a while (filmed Dec02) so you may have seen it, but if not then try to look it up - it is amazing footage and although I am fully with Avman and Cheeky's comments, I am glad I was not aboard!!!
I have the clip on my computer but I don't think I am allowed to paste on PPRuNe for some reason. Never mind, I'm sure someone else can post a link.

Flying is far and away the safest form of travel - biggest problem for me is the boredom of sitting around airports all the time....

GDI

[brummbrumm]

Rwy 15 in use this morning, wind was southerly at about 8kts,100ft winds were forecast at around 220 30kts.

[smith]

Airplanes are actualy designed to make a "firm" landing, landing like a butterfly with sore feet is very reassuring for the passengers but in actual fact a firm landing is better. Got taught that when training but cant remember the reason why. Think its got something to do with disipating some of the energy the aircraft has and therefore slowing it down, correct me if you can.

Thanks

[perkin]

Originally Posted by goshdarnit

There's a great video of a TAP A321 attempting to land at LIS

Just go to flightlevel350 and search on extreme situations...theres vids of a couple of aircraft on the same day...looked a bit scary that day!

[Maddie]

Hello everyone.

Thank you for all of your replies. When I am up there again, which will be unfortunately for me, and the flight attendants where I locate myself, too soon, I will try and comfort myself with your re-assuring words.

BrumBrum, can I just check with you, would you describe the wind conditions as having been good or bad on Monday morning. In other words could it have been a lot worse?

Thanks again one and all.

[amanoffewwords]

Maddie,

you might want to read the 23 November post on this blog: http://flightlevel390.********.com/ written rather excellently by a USAir Captain - it gives the pointed nose version of events while landing in cross-winds - puts a different perspective on things like. And makes you appreciate the crew even more

amofw

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by goshdarnit

There's a great video of a TAP A321 attempting to land at LIS in what is obviously a very strong wind

This is a well known video on the web. If I recall correctly it is actually showing a problem the A321 software had with crosswinds on the limit, a full-flap landing (relatively unusual), and probably some other combinations as well. As a result full flap landings were prohibited in the A321 for some months, it was one of the reasons why BMI had to take the aircraft off the Belfast City route at that time where the short runway makes full flap a requirement.

It was surprising as the A321 had been in service for some years at that point. The magic words "software upgrade issue" alas come into play !