The Survivor's Guide to Plane Crashes - BBC Horizon (MERGED)
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Northumberland, UK
Age: 61
Posts: 293
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just watched it. Am sure it is possible to be picky, but overall very positive. Bottom line is do as the cabin crew tell you in the safety briefing to increase the odds in your favour. But we all know that here did'nt we? Wonder how many of the ignorant plebs who ostentatiously read the newspaper during the briefing were watching?
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: london
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just watched this programme. Very dissapointing. No critical analysis of airline seating or safety policies. No discussion of survivability in low vs. high density seating. Horizon has gone down hill. They should change the name to 'science for thickies'.
In summary;
Know where your exit is
Know how to undo seat belt
read safety card
don't take a sleeping pill
Adopt Brace position
get off the plane ASAP.
Nothing new. Rubbish.
In summary;
Know where your exit is
Know how to undo seat belt
read safety card
don't take a sleeping pill
Adopt Brace position
get off the plane ASAP.
Nothing new. Rubbish.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: london
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Drichard
The point highlighted about counting seat rows is a very good one. In the AAIB report into the Manchester Airoturs disaster, there are reports of pax unable to find the overwing exit, as the distance between the seat rows was very similar to the regular seat rows. Whilst blinded by smoke, the pax could not tell which row was the exit.
Good point earlier regarding the strip of lighting along the roof, in case of inversion.
The point highlighted about counting seat rows is a very good one. In the AAIB report into the Manchester Airoturs disaster, there are reports of pax unable to find the overwing exit, as the distance between the seat rows was very similar to the regular seat rows. Whilst blinded by smoke, the pax could not tell which row was the exit.
Good point earlier regarding the strip of lighting along the roof, in case of inversion.
Last edited by 10secondsurvey; 3rd Oct 2006 at 21:05. Reason: slleping
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One omission that surprised me was that there was no mention of not trying to get luggage from the overhead bins - this has been cited as an evacuation delaying factor in several accident reports.
Yep, predictable stuff. I agree counting seat rows is a simple but great idea! Slightly irritated by the dramatic music in the background the whole time, and not sure what additional information was brought by interviews with surviving pax. Strange that more time wasn't given to ditching in water - all they said was "don't inflate your lifejacket before you get out of the plane".
Like the idea of lights on the ceiling, but then if your commercial a/c ends up upside down, is anything likely to still be working!!??
Like the idea of lights on the ceiling, but then if your commercial a/c ends up upside down, is anything likely to still be working!!??
Last edited by Blues&twos; 3rd Oct 2006 at 21:26. Reason: Initial aversion to vowels.
Scaredy-cat
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hochheim, Germany
Age: 51
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know sitting backwards is a good idea, but how do you explain that to the attendants that you want one of their seats? 
After my own experience in 1999 with an emergency landing of a plane full of smoke, I also diligently count the seat rows every time...just in case.
After my own experience in 1999 with an emergency landing of a plane full of smoke, I also diligently count the seat rows every time...just in case.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: LONDON
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My first impressions of airbags as a good idea but had similar thoughts, for example a heavy landing would one go off. Looked on the website and mentioned which airlines had them anyone on pprune fly for search airlines and has this happened to them
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: land of the long BLUE cloud
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good doco I thought. Educational for the average joe-pax. Especially the emphasis about the brace position. Might make one or two more pay attention to the demo.....!
Just not sure about the swimming in fuel being thick and dark... never seen jet a1 like that before.
Just not sure about the swimming in fuel being thick and dark... never seen jet a1 like that before.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Caribbean
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A shame you thought it was rubbish.
The message wasn't trying to convey something "new", it was trying to point out why the same old stuff is so important and easily overlooked, and I suppose considered "rubbish" by the know it all merchants.
The repeated points about reverting back to a familiar action scenario in a high stress situation is so very true. The fact that in such circumstances people will often try to unfasten their seatbelt like they would in their car is a prime example.
The fact that the safety card will often contain different brace positions for different seating configurations. Why the brace position is so important.
Why not to inflate a lifejacket in a cabin even though it may be perceived as a basic airbag in certain circumstances.
I thought it was interesting and very valid as someone who flies every working day, but what do I know ?
It was a guide to survivability in the world as it is, not the world as it might be or isn't.
The message wasn't trying to convey something "new", it was trying to point out why the same old stuff is so important and easily overlooked, and I suppose considered "rubbish" by the know it all merchants.
The repeated points about reverting back to a familiar action scenario in a high stress situation is so very true. The fact that in such circumstances people will often try to unfasten their seatbelt like they would in their car is a prime example.
The fact that the safety card will often contain different brace positions for different seating configurations. Why the brace position is so important.
Why not to inflate a lifejacket in a cabin even though it may be perceived as a basic airbag in certain circumstances.
I thought it was interesting and very valid as someone who flies every working day, but what do I know ?
It was a guide to survivability in the world as it is, not the world as it might be or isn't.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 2 m South of Radstock VRP
Posts: 2,042
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I half watched while bidding on eBay. It was quite well done, I thought. If it makes the PAX more aware of what can happen and what it looks like, it must be good value. I wonder how many of the regulars who read their papers during the safety brief have given much thought to how their seat belts really unfastens? I bet they would never panic.
For what it's worth, all the AVTUR I've ever seen on water has looked just like less rippley water. I know it stinks and makes your eyes water.
For what it's worth, all the AVTUR I've ever seen on water has looked just like less rippley water. I know it stinks and makes your eyes water.
Last edited by GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU; 3rd Oct 2006 at 22:25. Reason: standard finger trouble. Too many waters; but soddit!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CHESHIRE
Age: 55
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh, Pilots of the Caribbean would you be a pilot then? and possibly working for BMI Baby? Saw their rather large garish billboard poster in Manchester on Saturday, promising 007 types to fly you to warmer climes!! 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: all over the shop
Posts: 986
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by drichard
Air bags in seatbelts? This is a good idea in theory, but in practice I wonder about twisted belts (firing the bag into the passenger), explosives in the seat (to generate CO2 for filling the bags), false triggers etc etc etc.
My understanding, and I am open to correction on this, is that any new aircraft type certified after the early nineties (1994 possibly?
) is required to have airbags on all seats where headstrike is a possibility (as it is in the Upper Class Suite on VS)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 592
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FWIW, Horizon's list of a/c with airbags fitted: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/prog...guide/airbags/
Surprised to see no mention of a brace position technique I heard a Talking Head commend in a previous (Horizon?) documentary; ensure that your ankles are vertically slightly behind your knees. This ensures that the legs can still take vertical compression without early breakage to them or joints whilst being prevented by the floor from swinging violently forwards in the event of sudden deceleration.
Surprised to see no mention of a brace position technique I heard a Talking Head commend in a previous (Horizon?) documentary; ensure that your ankles are vertically slightly behind your knees. This ensures that the legs can still take vertical compression without early breakage to them or joints whilst being prevented by the floor from swinging violently forwards in the event of sudden deceleration.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: london
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A great deal of attention in the programme was on the brace position, yet no mention of the impossibility of adopting this in modern high density seat layouts.
No mention either of the ICE report from loughborough a few years ago, looking into pax trapped in rows too closely packed together.
The reason I said it was rubbish, was in light of the original posters point regarding the reduction of standards in "Horizon' itself. Previously, it was a very high level scientific programme, that would analyse published scientific evidence, and present facts in relation to scientific understanding. Judging by last nights programme, and the trailer for next week, it has been 'dumbed down'. There was absolutely no real in-depth criticism or analysis at all.
No mention either of the ICE report from loughborough a few years ago, looking into pax trapped in rows too closely packed together.
The reason I said it was rubbish, was in light of the original posters point regarding the reduction of standards in "Horizon' itself. Previously, it was a very high level scientific programme, that would analyse published scientific evidence, and present facts in relation to scientific understanding. Judging by last nights programme, and the trailer for next week, it has been 'dumbed down'. There was absolutely no real in-depth criticism or analysis at all.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FWIW I thought it was a well-made prog for the general public. I wouldn't expect that many of the frequent flyers who frequent this area of PPRuNe would have gained much new info from it.
My gripe with the BeeB is that Horizon used to be aimed at people with an interest in science, those that read Scientific American or New Scientist - it now seems to be assuming 'no prior knowledge'. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but I feel there ought to be room for at least one prog that could go into subjects in a bit more depth (like The Sky at Night does for astronomy).
If I could be allowed a bit of a quibble, the prog stressed several times that "90% of air accidents have survivors". This seems unlikely to me, unless they're including in these statistics all non-fatal accidents as well as those where there were fatalities. Events that result in loss of control at high speed or high altitude are not generally survivable, no matter how few rows you are from an emergency exit! (Sorry to be so gloomy, I'll go away and try to cheer up ...)
My gripe with the BeeB is that Horizon used to be aimed at people with an interest in science, those that read Scientific American or New Scientist - it now seems to be assuming 'no prior knowledge'. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but I feel there ought to be room for at least one prog that could go into subjects in a bit more depth (like The Sky at Night does for astronomy).
If I could be allowed a bit of a quibble, the prog stressed several times that "90% of air accidents have survivors". This seems unlikely to me, unless they're including in these statistics all non-fatal accidents as well as those where there were fatalities. Events that result in loss of control at high speed or high altitude are not generally survivable, no matter how few rows you are from an emergency exit! (Sorry to be so gloomy, I'll go away and try to cheer up ...)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sussex,UK
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scaredy-cat
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hochheim, Germany
Age: 51
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@jetset lady: I not only listen to and watch the demonstrations...I also check the instructions on how to operate the emergency exits - and I've been known to ask if I can't quite understand how they work from the pictures...but some flight attendants tend to watch me closely afterwards.... 
Personal rules (always open to be broken of course)
-Choose an airline that has the lowest density seating possible. Mainly for comfort, but also improves the chances of getting out/seating not breaking away from the mounts.(provided we're not talking DodgyAir.com)
-Never wear synthetics.Wear long sleeves/pants at least during dep/arr.
-Always read the safety card and be attentive during the briefing. Quite apart from maybe needing to know the contents, if that attentiveness influences 1 other passenger to do the same, that's helped improve my survivability.(This one doesn't get broken)
-Sit in the most comfortable location. Adjacent an overwing exit is good. If the fuel goes up, that's likely to affect almost everybody on board anyway.
-Don't carry duty free (or any) spirits in the overheads. Or anywhere.(This one doesn't get broken). I can't believe it's legal to do this.
-Don't swim in jet fuel. If I have to swim in jet fuel, common sense rules made up on the spot apply.
I recently had the good fortune to travel in a lie flat seat with airbag built into the belt. Quite a bulky little pouch about 30cm long near the catch. Always wondered what would happen it it went off, but not for long...the food was too nice.
-Choose an airline that has the lowest density seating possible. Mainly for comfort, but also improves the chances of getting out/seating not breaking away from the mounts.(provided we're not talking DodgyAir.com)
-Never wear synthetics.Wear long sleeves/pants at least during dep/arr.
-Always read the safety card and be attentive during the briefing. Quite apart from maybe needing to know the contents, if that attentiveness influences 1 other passenger to do the same, that's helped improve my survivability.(This one doesn't get broken)
-Sit in the most comfortable location. Adjacent an overwing exit is good. If the fuel goes up, that's likely to affect almost everybody on board anyway.
-Don't carry duty free (or any) spirits in the overheads. Or anywhere.(This one doesn't get broken). I can't believe it's legal to do this.
-Don't swim in jet fuel. If I have to swim in jet fuel, common sense rules made up on the spot apply.
I recently had the good fortune to travel in a lie flat seat with airbag built into the belt. Quite a bulky little pouch about 30cm long near the catch. Always wondered what would happen it it went off, but not for long...the food was too nice.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sussex,UK
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@jetset lady: I not only listen to and watch the demonstrations...I also check the instructions on how to operate the emergency exits - and I've been known to ask if I can't quite understand how they work from the pictures...but some flight attendants tend to watch me closely afterwards....
