Why are there so little cockpit announcements?
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While Channel 9 is a personal favourite, I'm not sure that I would recommend it for nervous fliers. Heard in the (seemingly endless) queue at LAX waiting for our turn to use the runway:
"Birdseed 123 - are you clear to take-off?"
"Negative - we're behind the Lear Jet."
(Apologies to the pros if I've got the terminology a bit wrong, but that was certainly the gist of it.)
I'm sure pax have no reason to be concerned about such a conversation, but it probably wouldn't reassure our more nervous colleagues that the tower have everything under complete control!
"Birdseed 123 - are you clear to take-off?"
"Negative - we're behind the Lear Jet."
(Apologies to the pros if I've got the terminology a bit wrong, but that was certainly the gist of it.)
I'm sure pax have no reason to be concerned about such a conversation, but it probably wouldn't reassure our more nervous colleagues that the tower have everything under complete control!
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Why are there so little cockpit announcements?
1) We (pilots) have to taxi the a/c to holding point before Take-off. Very little time to talk to Joe Public as it can be quite a busy part of the flight ( taxy clearance + change frequency + t/o brief review, navaids idents.....)
2) Take off + Departure...... whoooooooo good rush of blood to the the brain!!! V+ busy (especially in the London TMA)
3) Reach cruise altitude.... cool..... workload reduces ... Ah! I think : hum ... Shall I talk to the punters ? No ! There is a film being played
wait for the brake ....
4) this is the film break. "hello you're captain again, we are now cruising at 32000 ft.... bla bla bla.........
5) the film ends, the Cabin crew have to sell their goods......
6) oooppppssss we landed. bye bye, see you next time !
2) Take off + Departure...... whoooooooo good rush of blood to the the brain!!! V+ busy (especially in the London TMA)
3) Reach cruise altitude.... cool..... workload reduces ... Ah! I think : hum ... Shall I talk to the punters ? No ! There is a film being played
wait for the brake ....4) this is the film break. "hello you're captain again, we are now cruising at 32000 ft.... bla bla bla.........
5) the film ends, the Cabin crew have to sell their goods......
6) oooppppssss we landed. bye bye, see you next time !
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sorry about the late reply, I never checked back on this thread until now. But the message board is in German anyway, and I don't know if you speak German
so I guess you wouldn't be able to help much either way? But the link Glamgirl posted is a good alternative for other fearful flyers. And I have overcome most of my fears anyways. 
Aaaaanyways, let me address some points here.
I sympathise entirely with the feeling that some reassurance is gained by the occasional message from the flight deck. There are several reasons for this. First, the sound of a calm voice - no matter what the message - from someone in the front of the aircraft impacts on the subconscious with the message - calm = all is well (but remember, a good captain could make you feel safe even if the plane is falling apart). Secondly, a little commentary - routing after take-off, cruise position (on a longer flight and where no map is available so passengers can see where they are) and a warning before the engines are pulled back for descent (with est time to landing) can be very reassuring. This needn't be disturbingly long - just a succinct message. I find I want more information on aircraft without the map/flight information screens.
Whilst airlines feel the need to give business travellers peace and quiet, I have come across many regular business travellers who also suffer from nervousness about flying. Most would be reassured by short messages. Research has shown that some 80% of people suffer from fear of flying to some extent. Airlines should remember that 80% of the population = a lot of potential customers. One especially fearful fight without any reassurance from the flight deck can put a customer off for life.
I flew back from GLA a few weeks ago with BA, on a particuarly stormy day. The captain was excellent - especially after the cabin crew folded the map screens up - telling us where the next bout of turb was expected and so on. Sometimes, the all important business traveller must put up with some reassurance for the common herd - in the interests of the industry.
If you want to cut the disturbance on flights, get rid of some of the pointless sales messages that the cabin crew are now required to spout.
HH
Whilst airlines feel the need to give business travellers peace and quiet, I have come across many regular business travellers who also suffer from nervousness about flying. Most would be reassured by short messages. Research has shown that some 80% of people suffer from fear of flying to some extent. Airlines should remember that 80% of the population = a lot of potential customers. One especially fearful fight without any reassurance from the flight deck can put a customer off for life.
I flew back from GLA a few weeks ago with BA, on a particuarly stormy day. The captain was excellent - especially after the cabin crew folded the map screens up - telling us where the next bout of turb was expected and so on. Sometimes, the all important business traveller must put up with some reassurance for the common herd - in the interests of the industry.
If you want to cut the disturbance on flights, get rid of some of the pointless sales messages that the cabin crew are now required to spout.
HH
Originally Posted by Michael111
I was on a flight that left LGW bound for JER that never made it due to horrendous conditions that were in the area at the time. Flight crew told us that we were diverting to SOU but we crash Landed at Bournmouth. 6 Months later I was returning to JER from America via LGW when an engine failed on a 146 out of LGW. Comms on this occasion from the Capt was excellent.
Let me fast forward to 8 Sept 06. My Family & I were comming back to LGW from Paphos (PHO) with GB airways. The Captain was fantastic, Introducing himself whilst standing in the aisle, making regular in flight announcements whilst on route and welcoming us to LGW on arrival. This Captain allowed my kids on to the flight deck prior to departure and I have the photos to prove it.
After all of my incidents whilst flying, (over 200 flights with BA in the last 3 years) a Captain like the one from PFO to LGW would help me relax. Please all you Captains talk to your passangers as much as you can.
Let me fast forward to 8 Sept 06. My Family & I were comming back to LGW from Paphos (PHO) with GB airways. The Captain was fantastic, Introducing himself whilst standing in the aisle, making regular in flight announcements whilst on route and welcoming us to LGW on arrival. This Captain allowed my kids on to the flight deck prior to departure and I have the photos to prove it.
After all of my incidents whilst flying, (over 200 flights with BA in the last 3 years) a Captain like the one from PFO to LGW would help me relax. Please all you Captains talk to your passangers as much as you can.
This is also the reason why "telling the flight attendants about your fears and they'll help you", whilst it being a nice advice, is not the same as hearing from the cockpit, because the flight attendants are not the ones flying the bird, you know what I mean? A "sign" from the cockpit would just help because of indicating that the guys are not sleeping, fallen unconscious or whatever. Thanks for your effort of typing down all the technical aspects, HH. I have informed myself about all those aerodynamical stuff, how a plane works and flies, that turbulences are no problem for the plane etc. long ago, so that's not a problem for me. But I agree that knowledge is a crucial step to overcome the fears, it helps alot to calm down because you are able to explain those "weird noises and actions" during take-off, flight and landing, so kudos to you. I have also experienced twice that calming down other passengers helps to reduce my own fears, weird but true. Well, back to the point, I know the statistics of "airplane vs. car" (btw: what I still don't get is that it is always highlighted how safe a plane is in comparison with how many people die on the roads each day. Sure, but the likelihood of surviving a car accident is much higher than surviving a plane crash. Which is why I think that comparison is not really appropriate), I know that it's technically safe to fly and that an aircraft is probably one of the most advanced means of transport; I am able to explain most of the noises and other things during a regular flight (if not something unexpected happens, that is) and I am pretty much at ease with flying, but still there are some unwanted, irrational fears, as I have explained in another thread. I think it's also because you are stuck in that tube with those small windows, not able to figure out what's going on around you. There was a very nice analogy from somebody in that fearful forum: "The feeling in a plane is kinda like being a blindfolded passenger on a motor-bike." And I think it's also because of the control aspect. You are depending on completely strange, unknown people, may it be the pilots, the engineers or the flight attendants. This is also why some re-assurance of those "strangers" would help.
Let me give an example: The "trigger flight" was a crosswind experience about 18 months ago. Before that I was never afraid of flying, not even slightly. But it was night, dark, rainy and stormy and I actually started feeling sick when we were descending, probably because of descending very fast? I don't know, but I was looking around me and nearly all passengers didn't look very comfortable, haha, so I guess it wasn't only me. Then there was the touch and landing on one wheel, like it is required with crosswinds, and it felt terrible because nobody knew what was going on. It was bumpy and it felt like we were waaaaay to fast and we all thought we wouldn't make it until the end of the runway. And the cockpit crew didn't say a single word. Of course, it might have been that the crosswinds came unexpected and, well, I guess crosswinds are not the easiest thing to handle so the pilots were busy and all the attention had to be focused on the safe landing, no problem. But they could have warned us before, like, I guess they were informed by ATC that there would be strong winds, so they could have told us before approaching that the landing might be a bit rough? I guess then we all would have been a bit more relaxed because we would have known what to expect. I don't know, but we were all scared as hell and that landing was a bit of a shock because like I said, it came without a warning. That experience made me engage in gathering information about aerodynamics, aeronautical engineering etc. (where I also found out that our landing was perfectly normal and the right way to handle crosswinds), so at least something good came out of it. But my point is, it would have been better if there had been a cockpit announcement.
Another example: 3 months after that I flew again, nighty night time again and a bit stormy outside. But the pilot was great, he kept us informed all the time...well, I have already mentioned it in my first posting here: the pilot was giving announcements very often during the flight, and it was soooo helpful. Like, we are about to experience some turbulences, but don't worry, no serious stuff and it's only gonna take that long ... or: we got the information that there will be some light winds ahead of us, which is why I am turning on the seatbelt sign, so please stay calm, there is no need to worry... and all that in such a slow, calm and relaxed voice that I had no fears at all, even though all the bad memories from the crosswind landing came back. He also mentioned if or if not the flight was on time and at the end when we were approaching FRA he told us about the weather and the temperature there. Not that I cared, but it was just a nice gesture - which is what I'm talking about the whole time: Just talking itself helps alot. He was such a treasure, unfortunately I don't know his name or the flight # , I would have loved to drop a line to Delta Airlines about that great member of staff. Perhaps he is a member of this forum as well and reading this. It was a Delta night flight from JFK to FRA in April 2005 and perhaps it helps for remembering which flight I'm talking about that some passengers ignored the seatbelt sign and wanted to use the toilets and so the pilot had to make an extra announcement that "everybody sit down now and fasten the seatbelt, I don't want you to walk around or using the toilets, I didn't make the announcement for fun, it's just for your own safety" ... haha, great. So, dear unknown captain, if you are reading this, thanks for your excellent job, keep up the good work, you are a true role model for your job.
It was such a nice experience that I still vividly remember it and I often think back to it.But, anyway, based on my experiences with other flights, the above mentioned experience seems to be the exception than the rule, because like I said, I have been on flights where there weren't announcements, the seatbelt signs were just switched on without a single word and I was like "OMG, what kind of heavy turbulences are we going to experience now?" because nobody said why the seatbelt signs were on. If there were announcements that everything is alright (even if there are no turbulences), it would be just fine. Doesn't even have to be every 5 minutes, haha, maybe every 2 hours or just in the middle of the flight (depending on the length of the flight and the business) one announcement and fearful passengers would be cool.
As this thread shows, I don't seem to be the only passenger that would prefer more announcements, so if you have the time and are not too busy, please talk to us a bit more, we would appreciate it very much.
Last edited by vendetta; 1st Oct 2006 at 21:19.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
As it happens, I was on the flight portion of a fear of flying course last night, lending moral support to two friends doing the entire course.
This would be the dream of the nervous passengers who would like a running commentary. Specifically for the purpose of explaining everything that was going on, one of the course organisers did exactly that for the entire flight - about 70 minutes block time. The friends who I was with said that they very much appreciated that, and between that and the course itself now knew a lot more about what was going on.
There are two of these that I know of: one affiliated with British Airways and one affiliated with Virgin Atlantic. I doubt that you could go wrong with either. The people running the show yesterday really wanted all the participants to succeed.
This would be the dream of the nervous passengers who would like a running commentary. Specifically for the purpose of explaining everything that was going on, one of the course organisers did exactly that for the entire flight - about 70 minutes block time. The friends who I was with said that they very much appreciated that, and between that and the course itself now knew a lot more about what was going on.
There are two of these that I know of: one affiliated with British Airways and one affiliated with Virgin Atlantic. I doubt that you could go wrong with either. The people running the show yesterday really wanted all the participants to succeed.
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Hi All,
I think these fear of flying courses are pretty good, but you have to have the nerve to book on them in the first place. They can be quite hard to get information on, although I know BA customer services will refer you to their affiliated provider.
I have just been reviewing the reams written on this thread. I realised when I did wings I left out quite a vital control surface - the ailerons! The main ailerons are usually out the outer trailing edge of the wings. They move in opposition, one creating more lift and the other reducing it - unless they are in neutral balance, with neither doing anything; you experience this as the aircraft banking. Once one wing is creating more lift than the other, it flies relatively faster, producing a turning effect - this is how aircraft turn during most phases of the flight - not the rudder (as with boats). There are all sorts of more complicated aerodynamic niceties to do with ailerons, but I don't think we need to go into them here. When the aircraft is at speed in the cruise, you may see 'inner ailerons' operating (if fitted). On a 747 they can be seen between the two sets of flaps. At speed, less aileron action is required to make the stay level or bank, so these ailerons have less moment (i.e. they are closer to the roll axis so have less effect) and are smaller. In fact, the inner and outer ailerons are often linked, providing the best result for the airspeed. Ailerons on airliners are usually activated by hydraulics - more on these later.
I mentioned the rudder above, which I have not covered before. You will almost certainly know that this sits at the back on the vertical tail fin. On the 747-400, there are actually two sections which work in parallel. It fulfils two functions - balancing in turns and yawing (right or left) which is mainly used in flight when close to the ground (taking off and landing). On the ground, the rudder helps with ground steering, often being coupled to the nosewheel steering. Vendetta mentions a crosswind approach above - so let's talk through it. In an airliner, the plane will be set up for landing several miles out on the runway heading (at most airports - the famous, now closed, Kai Tak at Hong Kong was a notable exception). If there is a crosswind, the wings will be kept level, but the rudder used to steer the nose into the wind. In a strong crosswind, passengers may be able to see the landing runway out of the side windows! In effect, the plane is crabbing through the air, flying into the wind enough to stay on the runway centre line. The nose is re-aligned with the runway shortly before touchdown. However, the crosswind may also lift the wing on the side from which it is blowing, so the pilot may feed in a little aileron to keep the wings level or, as the plane is aligned with the runway, actually lower the wing to land on the windward mainwheels first. This may all feel very strange from the cabin, but is quite standard and very well practiced - in my experience crosswinds are the norm rather than an exception.
Now, hydraulic systems. These vary between airliners but, typically, an airliner will have two or three systems, each of which can be switched to back up the other. The 747-400 has 4 systems! Hydraulics provide the simplest most powerful way of controlling major systems such as control surfaces (sometimes the flaps and slats are operated by hydraulic drives as well. You have one such system in your car - the brakes. Can't think of a more important bit of the car from a safety perspective - and except in the films where someone cuts the pipe, they hardly ever fail. Just like your car, airliners use hydraulics for wheel braking. They also use hydraulics to raise and lower the undercarriage. There are two potential failings with hydraulic systems - leakage and noise. The first is dealt with (as most things on airliners) by way of much duplication and back-up systems. On the 747-400 the undercarriage is driven by hydraulics, but electrical back-up systems allow it to be lowered by gravity as well, with a wind-down system for the nosewheel. Hydraulic flaps may be backed up by electric operation ...
You will see on another thread considerable discussion about funny noises on the A319. This is caused by balancing of hydraulic pressure after start-up. It may sound strange, but is not dangerous in any way. You may also feel some vibration from hydraulic pumps if you are sitting in the wrong place during the approach pattern - as the plane is configured for landing.
Any questions on this? I feel like I've been waffling rather randomly in this post.
Next, as promised, the flight deck.
HH
I think these fear of flying courses are pretty good, but you have to have the nerve to book on them in the first place. They can be quite hard to get information on, although I know BA customer services will refer you to their affiliated provider.
I have just been reviewing the reams written on this thread. I realised when I did wings I left out quite a vital control surface - the ailerons! The main ailerons are usually out the outer trailing edge of the wings. They move in opposition, one creating more lift and the other reducing it - unless they are in neutral balance, with neither doing anything; you experience this as the aircraft banking. Once one wing is creating more lift than the other, it flies relatively faster, producing a turning effect - this is how aircraft turn during most phases of the flight - not the rudder (as with boats). There are all sorts of more complicated aerodynamic niceties to do with ailerons, but I don't think we need to go into them here. When the aircraft is at speed in the cruise, you may see 'inner ailerons' operating (if fitted). On a 747 they can be seen between the two sets of flaps. At speed, less aileron action is required to make the stay level or bank, so these ailerons have less moment (i.e. they are closer to the roll axis so have less effect) and are smaller. In fact, the inner and outer ailerons are often linked, providing the best result for the airspeed. Ailerons on airliners are usually activated by hydraulics - more on these later.
I mentioned the rudder above, which I have not covered before. You will almost certainly know that this sits at the back on the vertical tail fin. On the 747-400, there are actually two sections which work in parallel. It fulfils two functions - balancing in turns and yawing (right or left) which is mainly used in flight when close to the ground (taking off and landing). On the ground, the rudder helps with ground steering, often being coupled to the nosewheel steering. Vendetta mentions a crosswind approach above - so let's talk through it. In an airliner, the plane will be set up for landing several miles out on the runway heading (at most airports - the famous, now closed, Kai Tak at Hong Kong was a notable exception). If there is a crosswind, the wings will be kept level, but the rudder used to steer the nose into the wind. In a strong crosswind, passengers may be able to see the landing runway out of the side windows! In effect, the plane is crabbing through the air, flying into the wind enough to stay on the runway centre line. The nose is re-aligned with the runway shortly before touchdown. However, the crosswind may also lift the wing on the side from which it is blowing, so the pilot may feed in a little aileron to keep the wings level or, as the plane is aligned with the runway, actually lower the wing to land on the windward mainwheels first. This may all feel very strange from the cabin, but is quite standard and very well practiced - in my experience crosswinds are the norm rather than an exception.
Now, hydraulic systems. These vary between airliners but, typically, an airliner will have two or three systems, each of which can be switched to back up the other. The 747-400 has 4 systems! Hydraulics provide the simplest most powerful way of controlling major systems such as control surfaces (sometimes the flaps and slats are operated by hydraulic drives as well. You have one such system in your car - the brakes. Can't think of a more important bit of the car from a safety perspective - and except in the films where someone cuts the pipe, they hardly ever fail. Just like your car, airliners use hydraulics for wheel braking. They also use hydraulics to raise and lower the undercarriage. There are two potential failings with hydraulic systems - leakage and noise. The first is dealt with (as most things on airliners) by way of much duplication and back-up systems. On the 747-400 the undercarriage is driven by hydraulics, but electrical back-up systems allow it to be lowered by gravity as well, with a wind-down system for the nosewheel. Hydraulic flaps may be backed up by electric operation ...
You will see on another thread considerable discussion about funny noises on the A319. This is caused by balancing of hydraulic pressure after start-up. It may sound strange, but is not dangerous in any way. You may also feel some vibration from hydraulic pumps if you are sitting in the wrong place during the approach pattern - as the plane is configured for landing.
Any questions on this? I feel like I've been waffling rather randomly in this post.
Next, as promised, the flight deck.
HH
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HH
Although you have set yourself up as a bit of an expert, some of the stuff you are spouting is drivel. Slats driven by compressed air, Rudder steering nose into wind. I appreciate you are trying to be helpful and as a cherokee ppl probably have little experience other than reading and anecdote. This is a bulletin board full of professional aviators with a wealth of heavy jet experience. Why not leave any questions for those with the experience ?
Although you have set yourself up as a bit of an expert, some of the stuff you are spouting is drivel. Slats driven by compressed air, Rudder steering nose into wind. I appreciate you are trying to be helpful and as a cherokee ppl probably have little experience other than reading and anecdote. This is a bulletin board full of professional aviators with a wealth of heavy jet experience. Why not leave any questions for those with the experience ?
Too mean to buy a long personal title
First, this is the SLF board, where relatively few pilots venture.
Second, none of the thousands of professional pilots who frequent PPRuNe have bothered to spend even 1% of the time and energy that HH has spent to help out those who have asked for help on this thread.
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Globaliser makes a good point I think Mr Hog has done a good job condensing complex aircraft systems into a few paragraphs, hopefully it has been helpful to some who read this board. I think his knowledge is pretty good for someone who freely admits to holding no professional license.
You get far more bulls*it and hot air in Rumours and News than in this thread, and very often from people with no aviation experience at any level!
On the subject of cockpit announcements I tend not to do many as I really don't think the majority listen to a word. When I first started I was under the impression you were hanging on every piece of info, and would tend to be a bit flowery particularly on long flights, but a few flights positioning as crew made me realise that most PAs are ignored by the majority. I can't really blame you either as my airline and others are guilty of bombarding the cabin with PAs trying to sell things and you barely get a moments peace. I realise that there will always be a few on board who will appreciate a PA from the flightdeck and for that reason I still make a short one if it is my sector. I have noticed an increasing number of captains I fly with who will not make any PAs' at all!
You get far more bulls*it and hot air in Rumours and News than in this thread, and very often from people with no aviation experience at any level!
On the subject of cockpit announcements I tend not to do many as I really don't think the majority listen to a word. When I first started I was under the impression you were hanging on every piece of info, and would tend to be a bit flowery particularly on long flights, but a few flights positioning as crew made me realise that most PAs are ignored by the majority. I can't really blame you either as my airline and others are guilty of bombarding the cabin with PAs trying to sell things and you barely get a moments peace. I realise that there will always be a few on board who will appreciate a PA from the flightdeck and for that reason I still make a short one if it is my sector. I have noticed an increasing number of captains I fly with who will not make any PAs' at all!
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I am not sure they are 2 good reasons since I suspect rather more pilots venture through here than you realise. This is the SLF forum within the Professional pilots website after all.
Possibly the reason why supposedly those pilots have contributed less than 1% to the thread is because the question has become somewhat muddled. However in accepting that criticism I will try and add something to the discussion.
It is certainly important and it is promoted, to remember the fact that there are often hundreds of passengers behind that armoured door for whom life often moves at a more leisurely pace than it does for the pilot. It is a point that is sometimes overlooked and does need to be given thought.
Whenever possible and certainly on most occaisions a welcome P.A ought to be given , by the Captain, once everybody is on board. This should set out the important "Time and tide" stuff. How long, how high, and the initial departure information. The address should be reassuring calm and authoritive. Ideally the welcome should reinforce the importance of the safety briefings and effectively then hand off to the senior crew member for the continuation of that briefing.
One of the reasons this sometimes does not happen is the simple lack of time. Delayed boarding, loading, paperwork completion and the frequent knife edge constraints of slot time limitations where a one minute loss can cause a two hour delay, means that practicaly the address sometimes has to be dropped or otherwised rushed, the latter often sounding poorly presented and therefore self defeating.
It is not generally good practice or good airmanship to be giving addresses at times when the aircarft is manouevering either on the ground, or when climbing, descending or turning in flight. These are busy periods when all the flight deck crews attention is given to monitoring and careful cross checking. However once established in level cruise those requirements are more relaxed and that is often a good time for the handling pilot to provide more information to the passengers.
It is a matter of personal experience and judgement as to the degree of content and length of such P.A's, but obviously the intention is to deliver in a manner that reflects the professionalism of the speaker to the audience. The increasing use of in flight entertainment systems (IFE) these days often seems to negate the desirability of overspoken P.A's that interrupt the show. Personally I have always thought that the flying experience and flight deck comment should supercede watching an edited film or old comedy show on a tiny and poorly angled TV screen, but it is not a view that is universally shared ! Sometimes a bit of planning and liason between the flight deck and the cabin works in this regard, but again time constraints often get in the way.
Prior to descent the flight deck should be able to deliver arrival airport information and take the opportunity to thank the passengers for their custom together with whatever reminders may be relevant or important. Sometimes it can occur that decent has to commenced earlier than planned for any number of reasons and once again the aircraft is in that phase of flight when operation and monitoring are all important. In such circumstances the delivery may have to be curtailed or delegated according to the circumstance.
Obviously communication plays a vitaly important role in aviating, and communication with the passengers is an important aspect of that role. However as I have tried to explain there are priorities and realities that often mean such communication has to be delegated or omitted.
With regard to nervous flyers. Five odd years ago and before, an effective tool we could choose to employ in some countries ( and often did ) to help nervous flyers, was the ability to invite some of these passegers to the flight deck. In almost all cases it had a very positive effect. Unfortunetaly the post 911 world is a very different one. Indeed it is one where fear is often promoted and the ability to allay it is given a very low level of importance. From the check-in to security, to boarding, to armoured doors and a whole host of restrictive procedures, the whole experience has degenerated for even the most laid back flyers, both passengers and crew. Our customers are now a potential threat to be kept locked behind steel doors ? Our tools of the trade are confiscated from us by security as a potential threat to the passengers and those on the ground ? I think that the images from 11th September 2001 have become the new benchmark for a fear of flying. In this climate there is precious little concern for someone who is afraid of the sound the undercarriage makes when it is being raised or lowered. It is very unfortunate, but it is the reality of this era.
Possibly the reason why supposedly those pilots have contributed less than 1% to the thread is because the question has become somewhat muddled. However in accepting that criticism I will try and add something to the discussion.
It is certainly important and it is promoted, to remember the fact that there are often hundreds of passengers behind that armoured door for whom life often moves at a more leisurely pace than it does for the pilot. It is a point that is sometimes overlooked and does need to be given thought.
Whenever possible and certainly on most occaisions a welcome P.A ought to be given , by the Captain, once everybody is on board. This should set out the important "Time and tide" stuff. How long, how high, and the initial departure information. The address should be reassuring calm and authoritive. Ideally the welcome should reinforce the importance of the safety briefings and effectively then hand off to the senior crew member for the continuation of that briefing.
One of the reasons this sometimes does not happen is the simple lack of time. Delayed boarding, loading, paperwork completion and the frequent knife edge constraints of slot time limitations where a one minute loss can cause a two hour delay, means that practicaly the address sometimes has to be dropped or otherwised rushed, the latter often sounding poorly presented and therefore self defeating.
It is not generally good practice or good airmanship to be giving addresses at times when the aircarft is manouevering either on the ground, or when climbing, descending or turning in flight. These are busy periods when all the flight deck crews attention is given to monitoring and careful cross checking. However once established in level cruise those requirements are more relaxed and that is often a good time for the handling pilot to provide more information to the passengers.
It is a matter of personal experience and judgement as to the degree of content and length of such P.A's, but obviously the intention is to deliver in a manner that reflects the professionalism of the speaker to the audience. The increasing use of in flight entertainment systems (IFE) these days often seems to negate the desirability of overspoken P.A's that interrupt the show. Personally I have always thought that the flying experience and flight deck comment should supercede watching an edited film or old comedy show on a tiny and poorly angled TV screen, but it is not a view that is universally shared ! Sometimes a bit of planning and liason between the flight deck and the cabin works in this regard, but again time constraints often get in the way.
Prior to descent the flight deck should be able to deliver arrival airport information and take the opportunity to thank the passengers for their custom together with whatever reminders may be relevant or important. Sometimes it can occur that decent has to commenced earlier than planned for any number of reasons and once again the aircraft is in that phase of flight when operation and monitoring are all important. In such circumstances the delivery may have to be curtailed or delegated according to the circumstance.
Obviously communication plays a vitaly important role in aviating, and communication with the passengers is an important aspect of that role. However as I have tried to explain there are priorities and realities that often mean such communication has to be delegated or omitted.
With regard to nervous flyers. Five odd years ago and before, an effective tool we could choose to employ in some countries ( and often did ) to help nervous flyers, was the ability to invite some of these passegers to the flight deck. In almost all cases it had a very positive effect. Unfortunetaly the post 911 world is a very different one. Indeed it is one where fear is often promoted and the ability to allay it is given a very low level of importance. From the check-in to security, to boarding, to armoured doors and a whole host of restrictive procedures, the whole experience has degenerated for even the most laid back flyers, both passengers and crew. Our customers are now a potential threat to be kept locked behind steel doors ? Our tools of the trade are confiscated from us by security as a potential threat to the passengers and those on the ground ? I think that the images from 11th September 2001 have become the new benchmark for a fear of flying. In this climate there is precious little concern for someone who is afraid of the sound the undercarriage makes when it is being raised or lowered. It is very unfortunate, but it is the reality of this era.
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Perhaps Pilots of the Caribbean would like to explain why this quotation is wrong - concerning the 747-400:
"Pneumatic power is used to operate certain equipment ... Leading edge slats arranged in four separate sections on each wing are operated by pneumatic drive units" (Capt. Stanley Stewart, who was, at the time of writing, a 747-400 Captain with BA)
Had Mr Caribbean read my posts, he would recognise that in most I have invited professionals to correct/add to them. I have recognised, time and time again, that I am doing this as a humble ppl who flies the PA28. I'm grateful for the positive contributions made by Chesty and BitMoreRightRudder - and I openly acknowledge one error (re. v1 and aborted take-offs) which was actually caused by finger trouble on the keyboard rather than lack of knowledge.
I was taught, during my ppl, by a retired 747 captain and a retired 767 captain and we had many discussions about how things are done in airliners, compared to a light aircraft. I doubt we covered everything by a long way, but what knowledge I have gleaned, I am pleased to offer those who might be reassured by it.
I acknowledge that on most airliners rudder use is mainly restricted to directional control on the ground. However, my understanding is that many commercial pilots use it - together with the ailerons - once the auto-pilot has been disconnected on approach.
In almost every one of my posts the words 'on some types' appear. I don't know about every airliner type and I doubt Mr Caribbean does either. What I do know, is that there are significant differences between them in control systems and SOPs.
I am sorry if Pilots of the Caribbean feels his pitch is being invaded here. It would have been more helpful had he posted something positive - as have other professionals - adding to the knowledge of those reading, rather than simply criticising (a notable habit of those who reside in the rumours and news section).
Pilots of the Caribbean may be a remarkably experienced ATPL with loads to offer. However, his public profile does not state that he is, what type he flies or give any indication as to what airline he might fly for. That is a pity, because I was asked earlier in this thread what airlines I would avoid. Given the human factors awareness demonstrated by this individual - his may well feature. I would hate to be a first officer working under the threat of such criticism and I don't much fancy the potential of that flight deck relationship as a passenger!
Once again, I would be more than grateful for positive contributions (and corrections ) to my efforts by those who work as ATPLs, and I'm sure other readers would too.
More soon.
HH
"Pneumatic power is used to operate certain equipment ... Leading edge slats arranged in four separate sections on each wing are operated by pneumatic drive units" (Capt. Stanley Stewart, who was, at the time of writing, a 747-400 Captain with BA)
Had Mr Caribbean read my posts, he would recognise that in most I have invited professionals to correct/add to them. I have recognised, time and time again, that I am doing this as a humble ppl who flies the PA28. I'm grateful for the positive contributions made by Chesty and BitMoreRightRudder - and I openly acknowledge one error (re. v1 and aborted take-offs) which was actually caused by finger trouble on the keyboard rather than lack of knowledge.
I was taught, during my ppl, by a retired 747 captain and a retired 767 captain and we had many discussions about how things are done in airliners, compared to a light aircraft. I doubt we covered everything by a long way, but what knowledge I have gleaned, I am pleased to offer those who might be reassured by it.
I acknowledge that on most airliners rudder use is mainly restricted to directional control on the ground. However, my understanding is that many commercial pilots use it - together with the ailerons - once the auto-pilot has been disconnected on approach.
In almost every one of my posts the words 'on some types' appear. I don't know about every airliner type and I doubt Mr Caribbean does either. What I do know, is that there are significant differences between them in control systems and SOPs.
I am sorry if Pilots of the Caribbean feels his pitch is being invaded here. It would have been more helpful had he posted something positive - as have other professionals - adding to the knowledge of those reading, rather than simply criticising (a notable habit of those who reside in the rumours and news section).
Pilots of the Caribbean may be a remarkably experienced ATPL with loads to offer. However, his public profile does not state that he is, what type he flies or give any indication as to what airline he might fly for. That is a pity, because I was asked earlier in this thread what airlines I would avoid. Given the human factors awareness demonstrated by this individual - his may well feature. I would hate to be a first officer working under the threat of such criticism and I don't much fancy the potential of that flight deck relationship as a passenger!
Once again, I would be more than grateful for positive contributions (and corrections
) to my efforts by those who work as ATPLs, and I'm sure other readers would too.More soon.
HH
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Sometimes the pedestals we climb upon can get a bit wobbly Mr HH. If you want to continue to teach the world that is up to you, but it seems to digress from the original question. If you feel posting reams from your fountain of knowledge is helpful and together with your invitation to correct your errors, that is fine. Again the subject seemed to be about the apparent lack of "cockpit announcements", but I guess whatever platform works for you ?
Your concern about being a First Officer working (for ?) with me is somewhat misplaced as you clearly are not. Your fear of being a passenger is also fairly ludicrous since you might have been already and really cannot make an informed judgement by your own admission. In summary you are demonstrating what I had already perhaps untactfully alluded to as a verbose delivery of something you clearly had little expertise in.
However along with many others, I look forward to your next chapter on the flight deck. Did you actually read the reply about why there are sometimes so few cockpit announcements ?
Your concern about being a First Officer working (for ?) with me is somewhat misplaced as you clearly are not. Your fear of being a passenger is also fairly ludicrous since you might have been already and really cannot make an informed judgement by your own admission. In summary you are demonstrating what I had already perhaps untactfully alluded to as a verbose delivery of something you clearly had little expertise in.
However along with many others, I look forward to your next chapter on the flight deck. Did you actually read the reply about why there are sometimes so few cockpit announcements ?
Too mean to buy a long personal title
So a gentle request from another reader: please can you lay off the criticism of HH, but help by providing information, updates or corrections?
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This seemed to me to be a fairly harmless thread, with strong potential to do some small good. HH has taken considerable time to post information that some may find helpful. It is hard to understand why this might be a source for criticism. Helpful advice, constructive criticism or even the addition of specifics would I'm sure be very welcome, and appreciated by our more anxious SLF colleagues
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Thank you Tightslot.
For the record, I did ask right at the beginning of my contributions whether this was an appropriate thread to continue a discussion about fear of flying. No-one pointed me elsewhere.
I have never tried to place myself on a 'pedestal'. I am not a commercial pilot, but I have tried to learn as much as possible to get over my own fears. To the extent that I was scared sh*tless and, using a range of techniques, overcame that, I consider myself to have some expertese in fear of flying. I was asked to explain how I did that and it has branched into a set of posts covering what I know about how pilots work. I'd love to know more, but I'm too old and committed in my career to move to a new one now. There is no arrogance intended on my part - I just want to help people who were in a similar position to me.
I still can't help wondering why Pilots of the Caribbean did not address my quotation about the pneumatic operation of slats on the 747. However, I'll let it rest.
I really do genuinely welcome input from professionals here - it can only help.
I'm sorry if it upsets some.
HH
For the record, I did ask right at the beginning of my contributions whether this was an appropriate thread to continue a discussion about fear of flying. No-one pointed me elsewhere.
I have never tried to place myself on a 'pedestal'. I am not a commercial pilot, but I have tried to learn as much as possible to get over my own fears. To the extent that I was scared sh*tless and, using a range of techniques, overcame that, I consider myself to have some expertese in fear of flying. I was asked to explain how I did that and it has branched into a set of posts covering what I know about how pilots work. I'd love to know more, but I'm too old and committed in my career to move to a new one now. There is no arrogance intended on my part - I just want to help people who were in a similar position to me.
I still can't help wondering why Pilots of the Caribbean did not address my quotation about the pneumatic operation of slats on the 747. However, I'll let it rest.
I really do genuinely welcome input from professionals here - it can only help.
I'm sorry if it upsets some.
HH
Gender Faculty Specialist
HH, as far as I'm concerned your posts are well thought out and informative. They are without a doubt a great help to those nervous flyers amongst us, which I think is amply demonstrated by the replies you've been getting to your posts. I only wish that more people had an attitude like yours and were willing to put in the time and effort to help others. Which is afterall what this thread is about and not teaching a full type rating ground school.
I enjoy reading your work.
Chesty, a humble ATPL with over 16 years flying experience.
I enjoy reading your work.
Chesty, a humble ATPL with over 16 years flying experience.
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I Agree With Chesty!!
Here here!!, I agree with you Chesty, the time and effort put in by Hampshire Hog is brilliant, and you can't get better than credentials like yours Chesty. I'm sure others reading will agree with you.
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I hate to steer this back to cabin announcements (or was it cockpit?), I forget.
Anyways, so as to minimize, the Economist ran its own version of a preflight announcement..
http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...ory_id=7884654
...now back to the more compelling diversionary topic.
Anyways, so as to minimize, the Economist ran its own version of a preflight announcement..
http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...ory_id=7884654
...now back to the more compelling diversionary topic.
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Thank you all for your support. My confidence is now slightly restored!
The aim is to provide a general guide - to help fearful flyers. It is, of course, not possible to cover every aircraft type and SOP - and I don't know all the details anyway. I will, however, try to steer my comments back towards overcoming the fear of flying more - placing my descriptions in context.
Middle Seat, great post. I didn't see the Economist feature when it was published, but it's a fun read. I have seen all sorts of comments on here about flight deck announcements. Someone said of BA pilots "These guys could have made you feel safe at 50' at night, over Berlin, during the Blitz". The other side to that coin is Billy Connolly's sketch about airline flight crews: 'They lie to you!'. I think a little of both reassurance and fact is needed. I think I might have said earlier, I was much reassured flying back from Scotland to LHR one stormy day when the Captain kept us informed about the next likely turbulent areas and where we were going. The regular flyers might have found it annoying, but I didn't hear any complaints around where I was sitting.
As a fearful flyer, I hate flights where the flight crew say absolutely nothing. What I hate even more is when something slightly unusual happens and they still don't say anything - even after the event has passed. That happened to a colleague of mine once after a go-around at LHR. Everything was fine and I explained to her how normal the procedure was, but the absence of any comment from the flight deck was what really spooked her. She didn't fly for ages after that - a lot of lost custom for the airlines, given that she is engaged to a guy in Dublin and lives in London.
HH
The aim is to provide a general guide - to help fearful flyers. It is, of course, not possible to cover every aircraft type and SOP - and I don't know all the details anyway. I will, however, try to steer my comments back towards overcoming the fear of flying more - placing my descriptions in context.
Middle Seat, great post. I didn't see the Economist feature when it was published, but it's a fun read. I have seen all sorts of comments on here about flight deck announcements. Someone said of BA pilots "These guys could have made you feel safe at 50' at night, over Berlin, during the Blitz". The other side to that coin is Billy Connolly's sketch about airline flight crews: 'They lie to you!'. I think a little of both reassurance and fact is needed. I think I might have said earlier, I was much reassured flying back from Scotland to LHR one stormy day when the Captain kept us informed about the next likely turbulent areas and where we were going. The regular flyers might have found it annoying, but I didn't hear any complaints around where I was sitting.
As a fearful flyer, I hate flights where the flight crew say absolutely nothing. What I hate even more is when something slightly unusual happens and they still don't say anything - even after the event has passed. That happened to a colleague of mine once after a go-around at LHR. Everything was fine and I explained to her how normal the procedure was, but the absence of any comment from the flight deck was what really spooked her. She didn't fly for ages after that - a lot of lost custom for the airlines, given that she is engaged to a guy in Dublin and lives in London.
HH
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As a fearful flyer, I hate flights where the flight crew say absolutely nothing. What I hate even more is when something slightly unusual happens and they still don't say anything - even after the event has passed. That happened to a colleague of mine once after a go-around at LHR. Everything was fine and I explained to her how normal the procedure was, but the absence of any comment from the flight deck was what really spooked her. She didn't fly for ages after that - a lot of lost custom for the airlines, given that she is engaged to a guy in Dublin and lives in London.
HH
HH
But the crew don't say "absolutely nothing", they are talking with air taffic control and doing what they should be doing, flying the airplane. Although a go around is a "normal" procedure, it is not an often practiced one. It is also an extremely busy time for the crew, who need to execute the manouever often in close proximity to other traffic. This can and often does entail the need for some complex manoevering and urgent communication with the controlling authority. Once the initial missed approach has been completed it is then a matter of priority to re-establish the flight back into an arrival sequence, bearing in mind that the world has also suddenly just got a lot busier for both the air traffiic control and the flight crew, who are now working on tighter reserves, and the need to reset the flightdeck and re-brief for another approach often within a tight time scale.
As I mentioned previously we do teach the need to remember there are passengers behind the door who should be kept informed and assured, both normally and in the event of an unusual event. However the need to fly the airplane and communicate with the ground takes a higher priority and always must ! There are some airports (Innsbruck springs to mind ) where the missed approach is extremely critical with regard to the close proximity of high terrain, and there is a need to fly a complex set of procedures for a considerable distance. The cabin crew are briefed that in the in the event of a missed approach it may be some considerable time before the passengers can be addressed from the flight deck. Even in less critical scenarios the airspace around major airports is normally busy and the crew will be busy aviating within that environment.
So as you can see, comment from the flight deck whilst desirable and hopefully achievable, is Not the first or second priority, and if time does not allow, it might (as you have already experienced) be omitted altogether. It really doesn't matter if a nervous passenger is a lost customer after such an event, the priority is the safety of all the passengers, all the time. "Commentaries" to the passengers however short or verbose is strictly as time allows and when such provision can be made.
The safety of our passengers , my crew and aircraft is the prime consideration that I have applied in the last 28 years of flying Boeing airliners from the 707 through to the latest generation glass cockpit machines. It is what I have taught as an instructor, and what I believe the vast majority if not all of my professional colleagues also practice.