Excel Airways, sort it out.
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Excel Airways, sort it out.
Had the recent misfortune of flying to and from Greece with this shower recently from Manchester.
Seats were ridiculous. I'm 6'1 and had to stretch into the aisle so that my mate next to me (also 6'1) could stretch into the space in front of me. My other friend who is 6'4 actually couldn't fit into his seat and had to move half way down the plane to find 2 free seats so he could sit comfortably.
Cabin crew. Well, where do I start? Obviously didn't want to be there. Miserable, surly faced. Not a smile in sight. When my friend enquired about paying for an upgrade for the return flight, no help at all and no sympathy whatsoever. Had the misfortune of having one of the hosties on the way out to Greece, on the flight back. She was rude and appeared to have no sort of people skills whatsoever. Had a go at my wife because she hadnt put her 'bag' in the overhead locker, until my wife pointed out it was actually her cardigan. No apology whatsoever, just a grunt.
It was a 767 to Chania, so I feel incredibly sorry for the poor sods who have to sit on that thing to and from the Caribbean for 7+ hours. Quite literally the worst airline with the worst crew I have ever flown on. Needless to say will not be choosing to fly them again in the hurry.
Seats were ridiculous. I'm 6'1 and had to stretch into the aisle so that my mate next to me (also 6'1) could stretch into the space in front of me. My other friend who is 6'4 actually couldn't fit into his seat and had to move half way down the plane to find 2 free seats so he could sit comfortably.
Cabin crew. Well, where do I start? Obviously didn't want to be there. Miserable, surly faced. Not a smile in sight. When my friend enquired about paying for an upgrade for the return flight, no help at all and no sympathy whatsoever. Had the misfortune of having one of the hosties on the way out to Greece, on the flight back. She was rude and appeared to have no sort of people skills whatsoever. Had a go at my wife because she hadnt put her 'bag' in the overhead locker, until my wife pointed out it was actually her cardigan. No apology whatsoever, just a grunt.
It was a 767 to Chania, so I feel incredibly sorry for the poor sods who have to sit on that thing to and from the Caribbean for 7+ hours. Quite literally the worst airline with the worst crew I have ever flown on. Needless to say will not be choosing to fly them again in the hurry.
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Excel Airways
I am surprised at your comments regarding the attitude of Excel Airways Cabin Crew as this is far from my experiences with this airline. Having taken 4 return trips with XLA over the past 18 months or so, without exception the crews have been polite, friendly and efficient.
Regarding your comments on aircraft comfort, I sympathise with your situation as the B767 in 2-4-2 charter configuration is an extremely uncomfortable aircraft. This however, is by no means exclusive to Excel Airways.
Prior to booking a flight with any airline, I always check the aircraft type and give B767 in 2-4-2 configuration a miss.
Regarding your comments on aircraft comfort, I sympathise with your situation as the B767 in 2-4-2 charter configuration is an extremely uncomfortable aircraft. This however, is by no means exclusive to Excel Airways.
Prior to booking a flight with any airline, I always check the aircraft type and give B767 in 2-4-2 configuration a miss.
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The space limitations on such airlines are well documented so I'm not sure that can be blamed on the Excel.
Rude and surly cabin crew are another matter and don't have to be tolerated, on the (very) few occasions where I've experienced such behaviour I've either complained to the Cabin Services Director or, if that didn't work, to the captain of the Aircraft once landed. When I'm spending either my money or my company's money have zero tolerence for sub-standard service, they get one warning and if they don't fix it then they are finished with receiving my money, this applies to airlines, restaurants, shops, service companies, sub-contractors at work. There is plenty of competition out there just waiting for your business....
Rude and surly cabin crew are another matter and don't have to be tolerated, on the (very) few occasions where I've experienced such behaviour I've either complained to the Cabin Services Director or, if that didn't work, to the captain of the Aircraft once landed. When I'm spending either my money or my company's money have zero tolerence for sub-standard service, they get one warning and if they don't fix it then they are finished with receiving my money, this applies to airlines, restaurants, shops, service companies, sub-contractors at work. There is plenty of competition out there just waiting for your business....
- also know that some things are better left unsaid!Thread Starter
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I feel a response to bushbolox (fairly apt name by the way) coming on........
1. Discomfort I can accept on a flight. Flew back from America recently on Virgin and spent most of the night walking around the cabin due to the uncomfortableness of the seat. I could, however, fit in the seat. When someone actually cannot physically fit in a seat, then this goes beyond the realms of discomfort and starts breaching safety.
2. At what point did I a) talk about the facilities at the arrival airport (which were actually pretty good), and b) try and blame Excel for the standard of the arrival airport?
3. We actually paid for the flights separately from the villa we were staying in. ie it wasn't a '500 quid for a round trip to larnaca with one week hotac included and moan' type trip. Far from it. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a seat you can fit in when you're paying £300 for it. And I challenge you to find anyone who would be prepared to put up with that level of comfort, whether payed for separately or as part of an all-inclusive trip.
4. With reference to your quote 'you are a big propforward too tight to buy a club ticket on you holidays.........', you appear to be contradicting yourself. On the one hand you excuse Excel because this is what one should expect when travelling on a 'charter not BA'. And yet you think I'm too tight to pay for a club ticket. I had no idea that there was a club class on Excel. Or Thompson. Or Monarch. Or First Choice. Or Jet2. Or Easyjet. Or Ryanair. Oh wait, there isn't. Oh sure there's 'Premium Economy'. Which provide slightly more legroom than economy on BA, Air France, Lufthansa etc, but if all those seats are sold (as they were as we did actually enquire about them) then we have no choice, do we?
5. If you're paying 'a grand for a weekend in prague, or amsterdam', then your getting seriously short changed. If you're in the industry, as I am, then you should know where to get the good deals. Hell, even if you're not in the industry, then you would be getting ripped off at that sort of price!
Before you start shooting from the hip, I would suggest you get your facts straight. You should never assume that something is so. You end up looking very stupid. As you have done.
1. Discomfort I can accept on a flight. Flew back from America recently on Virgin and spent most of the night walking around the cabin due to the uncomfortableness of the seat. I could, however, fit in the seat. When someone actually cannot physically fit in a seat, then this goes beyond the realms of discomfort and starts breaching safety.
2. At what point did I a) talk about the facilities at the arrival airport (which were actually pretty good), and b) try and blame Excel for the standard of the arrival airport?
3. We actually paid for the flights separately from the villa we were staying in. ie it wasn't a '500 quid for a round trip to larnaca with one week hotac included and moan' type trip. Far from it. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a seat you can fit in when you're paying £300 for it. And I challenge you to find anyone who would be prepared to put up with that level of comfort, whether payed for separately or as part of an all-inclusive trip.
4. With reference to your quote 'you are a big propforward too tight to buy a club ticket on you holidays.........', you appear to be contradicting yourself. On the one hand you excuse Excel because this is what one should expect when travelling on a 'charter not BA'. And yet you think I'm too tight to pay for a club ticket. I had no idea that there was a club class on Excel. Or Thompson. Or Monarch. Or First Choice. Or Jet2. Or Easyjet. Or Ryanair. Oh wait, there isn't. Oh sure there's 'Premium Economy'. Which provide slightly more legroom than economy on BA, Air France, Lufthansa etc, but if all those seats are sold (as they were as we did actually enquire about them) then we have no choice, do we?
5. If you're paying 'a grand for a weekend in prague, or amsterdam', then your getting seriously short changed. If you're in the industry, as I am, then you should know where to get the good deals. Hell, even if you're not in the industry, then you would be getting ripped off at that sort of price!
Before you start shooting from the hip, I would suggest you get your facts straight. You should never assume that something is so. You end up looking very stupid. As you have done.
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Mhk77, I think bushbolox's post was meant to be a little ironic but there is some fact in what he says
1, If you're 6ft 1' and have been for a while then you should research what you're going to get, especially on a charter.
2, I think Bushbolox is referring to the impression that charter passengers tend to complain about everything (there is some truth in this as is illustrated in your post)
3, Refer to 1
4, Again, do your research. If premium economy was full (the fact that you knew it was full indicates you may already have known you might have a problem with the normal seat) you could then have made a choice as to either go by scheduled BA or not at all.
5, Not so. Try flying BA to Amsterdam tomorrow evening, stay 4 nights in the Hilton, eating out each night. You aint gonna see any change from a grand.....
To conclude, if you fly with such airlines you cannot expect to be accommodated in the same way as if you're travelling with a legacy carrier, everybody knows that. The reason they are cheap (yes, £300 is cheap for a 3 hour flight) is because they carry more passengers, they pay their cabin crew FA, you pay for your drinks and they try to flog you **** duty free products. As I said before if you don't like it then put your hand in your pocket and pay for a seat on a proper airline....
1, If you're 6ft 1' and have been for a while then you should research what you're going to get, especially on a charter.
2, I think Bushbolox is referring to the impression that charter passengers tend to complain about everything (there is some truth in this as is illustrated in your post)
3, Refer to 1
4, Again, do your research. If premium economy was full (the fact that you knew it was full indicates you may already have known you might have a problem with the normal seat) you could then have made a choice as to either go by scheduled BA or not at all.
5, Not so. Try flying BA to Amsterdam tomorrow evening, stay 4 nights in the Hilton, eating out each night. You aint gonna see any change from a grand.....
To conclude, if you fly with such airlines you cannot expect to be accommodated in the same way as if you're travelling with a legacy carrier, everybody knows that. The reason they are cheap (yes, £300 is cheap for a 3 hour flight) is because they carry more passengers, they pay their cabin crew FA, you pay for your drinks and they try to flog you **** duty free products. As I said before if you don't like it then put your hand in your pocket and pay for a seat on a proper airline....
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SXB,
At 6'1 (which by the way is not exactly a height out of the ordinary these days), I was merely uncomfortable. My friend at 6'4 couldn't fit in the seat. He actually couldn't fit in the seat. Not width ways I hasten to add, but he couldn't get his legs behind the seat in front of him. Again I make the point, whether it's a charter flight or not, this is not safe and is therefore not acceptable.
Yes we looked into premium economy, because in this day and age economy across the board is pretty tight for space, not just on the so-called charters.
And please tell me when BA launched flights to chania. Because believe me, had we known that they did, we would have opted for them.
At 6'1 (which by the way is not exactly a height out of the ordinary these days), I was merely uncomfortable. My friend at 6'4 couldn't fit in the seat. He actually couldn't fit in the seat. Not width ways I hasten to add, but he couldn't get his legs behind the seat in front of him. Again I make the point, whether it's a charter flight or not, this is not safe and is therefore not acceptable.
Yes we looked into premium economy, because in this day and age economy across the board is pretty tight for space, not just on the so-called charters.
And please tell me when BA launched flights to chania. Because believe me, had we known that they did, we would have opted for them.
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I always find it strange when people buy a seat on a charter airline and complain about the legroom AND price when a scheduled carrier would cost more. I have friends who don't work in the airline industry and whenever I try and explain any gripes (crew hours, atc issues, whether a plane actually works) it always falls on deaf ears.
At the end of the day, with regard to legroom, carriers are finding increasingly difficult to maintain profitability (increasing fuel prices, insurance premiums, general increase of operating costs) and taking 3 or 4 rows of seats out to give people an extra inch-or-two of legroom for four hours on a day would be stupid without increasing the costs dramatically to cover the loss of revenue from the removed seats. At which point people start whinging about the price of air-travel and blah, blah, blah.
Of course there are always going to be genuine complaints, such as the rude cabin-crew mentioned, or not being informed of an aircraft delay etc, but in terms of legroom/prices, its basic economics that any successful business have to abide by, so either put up with the cramped conditions for a few hours, pay an extra £100-£200 for a scheduled carrier or sail to the destination.
At the end of the day, with regard to legroom, carriers are finding increasingly difficult to maintain profitability (increasing fuel prices, insurance premiums, general increase of operating costs) and taking 3 or 4 rows of seats out to give people an extra inch-or-two of legroom for four hours on a day would be stupid without increasing the costs dramatically to cover the loss of revenue from the removed seats. At which point people start whinging about the price of air-travel and blah, blah, blah.
Of course there are always going to be genuine complaints, such as the rude cabin-crew mentioned, or not being informed of an aircraft delay etc, but in terms of legroom/prices, its basic economics that any successful business have to abide by, so either put up with the cramped conditions for a few hours, pay an extra £100-£200 for a scheduled carrier or sail to the destination.
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Wipeout
Fully agree with your comments.
However there is another potential solution.
Do as Monarch Scheduled have done, increase the legroom of the first 4 rows of seats by 6" and charge a modest premium. The choice is then 'cough up' or 'shut up'.
However there is another potential solution.
Do as Monarch Scheduled have done, increase the legroom of the first 4 rows of seats by 6" and charge a modest premium. The choice is then 'cough up' or 'shut up'.
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MHK, Sorry to say it but bushbolox is simply saying what the rest of us are thinking so perhaps you should take a step back and listen to what he is saying in his colourful way.
6ft4 in ANY economy seat will be a crunch even on BA. The cheaper you pay for the ticket the less room you are likely to have. Thats pretty much common knowledge. There may or may not be a safety/moral question in there but hey...should people be allowed to have abortions??? Slightly different subject but still the same head banging type of topic!!!!
Now BA dont fly to Chania (never heard of the place myself) but you could have looked at other alternatives such as via Athens or into another airport where you could catch a bus/ferry or whatever. But you paid for Excel because it offered the "convenience" of a direct flight. So there you go, thats what you really paid for...not a seat with 36" seat pitch.
As for the rude crew...shame on them...I hope you have names!
6ft4 in ANY economy seat will be a crunch even on BA. The cheaper you pay for the ticket the less room you are likely to have. Thats pretty much common knowledge. There may or may not be a safety/moral question in there but hey...should people be allowed to have abortions??? Slightly different subject but still the same head banging type of topic!!!!
Now BA dont fly to Chania (never heard of the place myself) but you could have looked at other alternatives such as via Athens or into another airport where you could catch a bus/ferry or whatever. But you paid for Excel because it offered the "convenience" of a direct flight. So there you go, thats what you really paid for...not a seat with 36" seat pitch.
As for the rude crew...shame on them...I hope you have names!
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mhk 77
what do you want an apology???
Do you really think Excel give a flying f*ck
People will always fly charter as there will always be pikeys to buy package holidays, two things in life are certain, nurses and..................
get over it mate, if you pay peanuts you will get monkey's.
It's like watching "airline" where some business man turns up 30mins after check in closes and expects that he will get on, then starts to threaten that he will never fly pikey airlines again. Get a grip, if you want leg room and hosties who smile, then pay for club class otherwise shut up and stop pretending that airlines actually care.
After all, you probably paid a fare which wouldn't even get you half way there in your car let alone back again, so what do you expect?
what do you want an apology???
Do you really think Excel give a flying f*ck
People will always fly charter as there will always be pikeys to buy package holidays, two things in life are certain, nurses and..................
get over it mate, if you pay peanuts you will get monkey's.
It's like watching "airline" where some business man turns up 30mins after check in closes and expects that he will get on, then starts to threaten that he will never fly pikey airlines again. Get a grip, if you want leg room and hosties who smile, then pay for club class otherwise shut up and stop pretending that airlines actually care.
After all, you probably paid a fare which wouldn't even get you half way there in your car let alone back again, so what do you expect?
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I love a lively thread!
I have sympathy with MHK77's viewpoint, if somewhat encrusted in rhetoric, which has brought out some strong reactions.
I recall some time back, discusssion about locos and comparing the service with paying, say, 10p for a mouldy cake, rather than a pound for a fresh one. My opinion, for what it is worth, is that there has always been a concept, at least in the British retail industry, that anything offered for sale, should be of "merchantable quality", or not be sold at all. It then follows that it is simply a matter of economics how much, or little the seller is able, or willing, to provide that product.
I would venture to suggest that the attitude of cabin crew falls well inside the "mouldy cake" category and if true, is a case for disciplinary action. As for the seat space, personally I agree that the space offered by many locos and charter airlines is insufficient to accomodate what is now a reasonably sized human. However, as to how to change that, if legislation is not an option for now, then the only thing to do is what MHK77 has alrady determined to do, i.e. not fly with them.
I have sympathy with MHK77's viewpoint, if somewhat encrusted in rhetoric, which has brought out some strong reactions.
I recall some time back, discusssion about locos and comparing the service with paying, say, 10p for a mouldy cake, rather than a pound for a fresh one. My opinion, for what it is worth, is that there has always been a concept, at least in the British retail industry, that anything offered for sale, should be of "merchantable quality", or not be sold at all. It then follows that it is simply a matter of economics how much, or little the seller is able, or willing, to provide that product.
I would venture to suggest that the attitude of cabin crew falls well inside the "mouldy cake" category and if true, is a case for disciplinary action. As for the seat space, personally I agree that the space offered by many locos and charter airlines is insufficient to accomodate what is now a reasonably sized human. However, as to how to change that, if legislation is not an option for now, then the only thing to do is what MHK77 has alrady determined to do, i.e. not fly with them.
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Dirty Sanchez,
An apology? You must be joking. Wouldn't want one, wouldn't expect one.
I agree 'if you pay peanuts you get monkeys'. Yes it was uncomfortable, but I can live with that. See my first point in response to bushbolox about Virgin.
What the majority of you seem to be missing is the point about my friend not being able to fit in his seat due to his height Whether you lot like it or not, this is a safety issue, which the cabin crew on board seemed unwilling to address. I make no apologies whatsoever for starting this thread, or for writing what I have written.
Obviously this is an 'agree to disagree' situation.
An apology? You must be joking. Wouldn't want one, wouldn't expect one.
I agree 'if you pay peanuts you get monkeys'. Yes it was uncomfortable, but I can live with that. See my first point in response to bushbolox about Virgin.
What the majority of you seem to be missing is the point about my friend not being able to fit in his seat due to his height Whether you lot like it or not, this is a safety issue, which the cabin crew on board seemed unwilling to address. I make no apologies whatsoever for starting this thread, or for writing what I have written.
Obviously this is an 'agree to disagree' situation.
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I fully agree with the comments of mkh77, and cannot for the life of me understand the vitriol being directed against him. He has made a very valid point in a very reasoned and well constructed way, which is what we need on this forum. What we don't need is people trying to 'shout' him down, and thereby deliberately trying to stifle a full discussion.
It is clear from some of the vitriolic posters criticising him, that there are some seriously vested interests here.
What I cannot understand is this; some of the posters have effectively said, 'fly with excel airways and it will be crap' What a bizarre industry? No desire to produce a good quality product or service.
This poster had a legitimate point to make, it is truly ridiculous that the seat pitch is so low that someone of 6'4" (which actually isn't mega tall, that would be 6'7"-8" or more) cannot actually physically fit in the seat. The poster is quite correct to state that this endangers safety both for the tall passenger and those around him.
As regards this notion of 'doing your research', not everyone works in the travel industry, and I have said this before, your average punter books a flight, and assumes (why shouldn't they?) that there will be adequate provision for them to sit on the plane, people like excel airways don't exactly advertise that anyone over 5'8" won't fit in their seats.
The poster raised a legitimate point, and yes it does affect safety. In my opinion the person concerned really should raise hell directly with excel, as this continuous process of removing space between seat rows is getting ridiculous.
It would be good if people here could discuss the points raised, rather than criticising the poster.
It is clear from some of the vitriolic posters criticising him, that there are some seriously vested interests here.
What I cannot understand is this; some of the posters have effectively said, 'fly with excel airways and it will be crap' What a bizarre industry? No desire to produce a good quality product or service.
This poster had a legitimate point to make, it is truly ridiculous that the seat pitch is so low that someone of 6'4" (which actually isn't mega tall, that would be 6'7"-8" or more) cannot actually physically fit in the seat. The poster is quite correct to state that this endangers safety both for the tall passenger and those around him.
As regards this notion of 'doing your research', not everyone works in the travel industry, and I have said this before, your average punter books a flight, and assumes (why shouldn't they?) that there will be adequate provision for them to sit on the plane, people like excel airways don't exactly advertise that anyone over 5'8" won't fit in their seats.
The poster raised a legitimate point, and yes it does affect safety. In my opinion the person concerned really should raise hell directly with excel, as this continuous process of removing space between seat rows is getting ridiculous.
It would be good if people here could discuss the points raised, rather than criticising the poster.
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mhk77 ..... You got a seat? Luxury, I travelled to work by bus yesterday and stood all the way!
But seriously it has always been this way since holiday charter flights began. I am 6 foot one myself and it never occurs to me to complain. For me the flight is to get me from A to B, as cheaply as possible, nothing more nothing less. If I save a few hundred quid for the priviledge of having my knees on my chest no problem. More money for beer! Of course if the company is paying then...........!
But seriously it has always been this way since holiday charter flights began. I am 6 foot one myself and it never occurs to me to complain. For me the flight is to get me from A to B, as cheaply as possible, nothing more nothing less. If I save a few hundred quid for the priviledge of having my knees on my chest no problem. More money for beer! Of course if the company is paying then...........!
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Would it help the thread if some slightly more precise numbers could be discussed, since this exercise would have to be repeated by the airlines themselves if the removal of seats were mandated?
For example, what constitutes an average size person? At various points in the thread, 6'1" and 6'4" have been described as both normal and tall. Other people on other threads have mentioned that it is the length of various leg bones that matter more than overall body height.
Once established, the next question is about what should then become the minimum seat pitch (presently 28"). 29"? 30"? 32"? or more? Should this become the minimum seat pitch throughout the cabin, or only in certain areas. Should those seats be sold as a commercial entity, or be occupied by 'tall' passengers only, without surcharge. Should 'tall' passengers have the right to one of these seats, even if they have all been allocated.
I'm not being cute by asking these questions. People often know what they feel is not wanted, but sometimes aren't certain what they actually want instead? The questions asked above (and others) need to be answered in order for a change in legislation. It seems reasonable to ask those driving for change what is actually required?
BTW - as one who has to deal with endless face-to-face complaints on the subject (without being able to ask the questions I just have), nobody would be more thrilled than I were the minimum seat pitch legislation to be amended.
For example, what constitutes an average size person? At various points in the thread, 6'1" and 6'4" have been described as both normal and tall. Other people on other threads have mentioned that it is the length of various leg bones that matter more than overall body height.
Once established, the next question is about what should then become the minimum seat pitch (presently 28"). 29"? 30"? 32"? or more? Should this become the minimum seat pitch throughout the cabin, or only in certain areas. Should those seats be sold as a commercial entity, or be occupied by 'tall' passengers only, without surcharge. Should 'tall' passengers have the right to one of these seats, even if they have all been allocated.
I'm not being cute by asking these questions. People often know what they feel is not wanted, but sometimes aren't certain what they actually want instead? The questions asked above (and others) need to be answered in order for a change in legislation. It seems reasonable to ask those driving for change what is actually required?
BTW - as one who has to deal with endless face-to-face complaints on the subject (without being able to ask the questions I just have), nobody would be more thrilled than I were the minimum seat pitch legislation to be amended.
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Originally Posted by TightSlot
Once established, the next question is about what should then become the minimum seat pitch (presently 28").
Research, commissioned by the European Joint Aviation Authorities (JAA), and funded by the CAA, has confirmed an increasing average body size in the European population. This endorses the CAA's longstanding belief that there is a safety case for a minimum distance between seat rows. The concern is that, in the event of an emergency evacuation, too small a space between seats could affect some passengers' ability to quickly vacate their seats and enter the aisle.
Aircraft certification has been EASA’s responsibility since September 2003, and the forward rulemaking programme includes an investigation of all seat pitch issues. The CAA fully expects that the JAA research results will form a fundamental part of the EASA investigation.
It has been agreed that the UK will retain its existing criteria for minimum seat space until such time as a new European standard may be introduced. The minimum distance between the back support cushion of a seat and the back of the seat or other fixed structure in front is 26 inches (measured at 3” above the seat cushion) in the take-off and landing configuration, that is with seat in the upright (unreclined) position only.
Aircraft certification has been EASA’s responsibility since September 2003, and the forward rulemaking programme includes an investigation of all seat pitch issues. The CAA fully expects that the JAA research results will form a fundamental part of the EASA investigation.
It has been agreed that the UK will retain its existing criteria for minimum seat space until such time as a new European standard may be introduced. The minimum distance between the back support cushion of a seat and the back of the seat or other fixed structure in front is 26 inches (measured at 3” above the seat cushion) in the take-off and landing configuration, that is with seat in the upright (unreclined) position only.
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Following on from Tightslot (whose post I missed), I think there is an increasing need for some type of international standard for seat pitch. The original CAA minimum of 26" was set some time ago (50's or 60's) and at that time, the average height of the british population was much lower than it is now in 2006. It is also true that actual height is not the only determinant, but also the lengths of a persons femur (thigh). So one person at 6' may find 32" seat pitch to be fine, whereas another may find it very cramped indeed.
In terms of a standard, why doesn't someone like IATA cut to the chase, and set a minimum seat pitch of say 32", but at the same time make it mandatory for all airlines to clearly display seat pitch on their tickets, and in their advertising. This would have an important effect, firstly it sets a minimum standard, but secondly it ensures that those airlines who choose to cut costs by reducing seat pitch to the minimum would be clear for everyone to see. I think part of the difficulty at present, is that to many travellers, seat pitch is a 'hidden' aspect of a flight booking, and so airlines know they can get away with cutting this, without causing a reduction in bookings. If it is mandatory for seat pitch to be declared on all promotional materials, then that would have a significant effect, and remove the 'hidden' aspect of this.
To give you an idea of how well hidden economy seat pitch is, just look around at a few airlines web sites, and in most cases it is very hard to find, and in some cases it is not on the web site at all.
Either way, there is a need for some action to be taken, because problems like those highlighted with this post will only continue to get worse as the population on average gets much taller.
In terms of a standard, why doesn't someone like IATA cut to the chase, and set a minimum seat pitch of say 32", but at the same time make it mandatory for all airlines to clearly display seat pitch on their tickets, and in their advertising. This would have an important effect, firstly it sets a minimum standard, but secondly it ensures that those airlines who choose to cut costs by reducing seat pitch to the minimum would be clear for everyone to see. I think part of the difficulty at present, is that to many travellers, seat pitch is a 'hidden' aspect of a flight booking, and so airlines know they can get away with cutting this, without causing a reduction in bookings. If it is mandatory for seat pitch to be declared on all promotional materials, then that would have a significant effect, and remove the 'hidden' aspect of this.
To give you an idea of how well hidden economy seat pitch is, just look around at a few airlines web sites, and in most cases it is very hard to find, and in some cases it is not on the web site at all.
Either way, there is a need for some action to be taken, because problems like those highlighted with this post will only continue to get worse as the population on average gets much taller.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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mhk77 - I agree with you entirely.
I am also 6'4" and also traveled to Chania with Excel recently on a B767.
I physically did not fit into my assigned seat.
It wasn't just uncomfortable or a bit of a tight squeeze - I did not fit into the seat that they sold me.
I'm not obese, I'm not registered as disabled, I fit into and drive an unadapted car, I buy my clothes from normal shops, I don't have to duck to got through normal sized doorways and I fit into the seat of every other form of public transport.
Why then should some airlines discriminate against certain members of population who happen to be tall?
I travel on an aircraft every few weeks and have done so with many airlines. I am taller than average so I don't expect to travel in luxurious comfort and I expect to seat to be cramped. But never before have I not been able to fit into the seat provided. Someone said "do your research" - not unreasonably it has never occurred to me that airlines have seats that I wouldn't be able to fit into - I'm not a freak!
On this occasion I raised the matter with the crew and also received a "shrugged shoulders" response. Fortunately, the flight wasn't full I found two spare seats together, left my friends, and went and sat on my own for 3hrs. Had the flight been full then offloading myself would have been an option I would have considered (I wonder if that would have provoked a positive response form Excel has they were faced with the delay of finding my bag, etc?)
On arrival I phoned Excel from Chania and asked if we could pre-book and pay for the extra-legroom seats on the way back? After being held for sometime I was informed that all such seats had already been pre-booked and non were available. This turned out to be a blatant lie - for when we checked in at Chania for our return flight we asked for and were assigned extra legroom seats, without extra charge - and had a very comfortable flight back!
I appreciate Excel are just trying to make a profit in a competitive market. That's fine. But if they are going to do that by only catering for those 6'0" tall or less, please say so at time of booking. Then those of us taller than this can make the necessary arrangements or go elsewhere.
Notro
I am also 6'4" and also traveled to Chania with Excel recently on a B767.
I physically did not fit into my assigned seat.
It wasn't just uncomfortable or a bit of a tight squeeze - I did not fit into the seat that they sold me.
I'm not obese, I'm not registered as disabled, I fit into and drive an unadapted car, I buy my clothes from normal shops, I don't have to duck to got through normal sized doorways and I fit into the seat of every other form of public transport.
Why then should some airlines discriminate against certain members of population who happen to be tall?
I travel on an aircraft every few weeks and have done so with many airlines. I am taller than average so I don't expect to travel in luxurious comfort and I expect to seat to be cramped. But never before have I not been able to fit into the seat provided. Someone said "do your research" - not unreasonably it has never occurred to me that airlines have seats that I wouldn't be able to fit into - I'm not a freak!
On this occasion I raised the matter with the crew and also received a "shrugged shoulders" response. Fortunately, the flight wasn't full I found two spare seats together, left my friends, and went and sat on my own for 3hrs. Had the flight been full then offloading myself would have been an option I would have considered (I wonder if that would have provoked a positive response form Excel has they were faced with the delay of finding my bag, etc?)
On arrival I phoned Excel from Chania and asked if we could pre-book and pay for the extra-legroom seats on the way back? After being held for sometime I was informed that all such seats had already been pre-booked and non were available. This turned out to be a blatant lie - for when we checked in at Chania for our return flight we asked for and were assigned extra legroom seats, without extra charge - and had a very comfortable flight back!
I appreciate Excel are just trying to make a profit in a competitive market. That's fine. But if they are going to do that by only catering for those 6'0" tall or less, please say so at time of booking. Then those of us taller than this can make the necessary arrangements or go elsewhere.
Notro