Ammunition found in hand luggage by cabin crew
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Ammunition found in hand luggage by cabin crew
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5032026.stm
Plane passenger 'had ammunition'
A man was removed from an Easyjet plane at Naples airport in Italy after ammunition was found in his hand luggage by cabin crew.
The passenger, who is thought to be Italian and described as elderly, was stopped before the flight took off for Stansted airport.
He was taken from the plane and is being questioned by local police.
An Easyjet spokeswoman said it was "not acceptable" that the man was able to get past airport security.
She praised the Easyjet crew for their actions
Plane passenger 'had ammunition'
A man was removed from an Easyjet plane at Naples airport in Italy after ammunition was found in his hand luggage by cabin crew.
The passenger, who is thought to be Italian and described as elderly, was stopped before the flight took off for Stansted airport.
He was taken from the plane and is being questioned by local police.
An Easyjet spokeswoman said it was "not acceptable" that the man was able to get past airport security.
She praised the Easyjet crew for their actions
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Originally Posted by cwatters
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5032026.stm
Plane passenger 'had ammunition'
Plane passenger 'had ammunition'
fairly harmless if he didnt have anything to load the ammunition into
Gender Faculty Specialist
JAR OPS states:
When carriage is allowed by the operator, cartridges for sporting weapons, providing they are in Division 1.4S (basically they have to be packaged, and any dangerous effect they have can be contained within in the packaging) they are for that person's own use, they are securely boxed and in quantities not exceeding 5kg gross mass and they are in CHECKED BAGGAGE. Cartridges with incendiary or explosive projectiles are not permitted.
Good for the crew, bad for airport security!
When carriage is allowed by the operator, cartridges for sporting weapons, providing they are in Division 1.4S (basically they have to be packaged, and any dangerous effect they have can be contained within in the packaging) they are for that person's own use, they are securely boxed and in quantities not exceeding 5kg gross mass and they are in CHECKED BAGGAGE. Cartridges with incendiary or explosive projectiles are not permitted.
Good for the crew, bad for airport security!
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Germstone.....
"fairly harmless if he didnt have anything to load the ammunition into"
Sounds like you don't know a whole lot about 'ammo'.
A teaspoon would do, a small nail....need I say more.
K-A
Sounds like you don't know a whole lot about 'ammo'.
A teaspoon would do, a small nail....need I say more.
K-A
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Germstone...
Someone just failed their DG course... 
Who says there needs to be a gun? If someone else has matches or a lighter (or anything else) that 'goes off' in their luggage, that's all it will take to react with the ammo and start a much bigger problem...
Who says there needs to be a gun? If someone else has matches or a lighter (or anything else) that 'goes off' in their luggage, that's all it will take to react with the ammo and start a much bigger problem...
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Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
JAR OPS states:
When carriage is allowed by the operator, cartridges for sporting weapons, providing they are in Division 1.4S (basically they have to be packaged, and any dangerous effect they have can be contained within in the packaging) they are for that person's own use, they are securely boxed and in quantities not exceeding 5kg gross mass and they are in CHECKED BAGGAGE. Cartridges with incendiary or explosive projectiles are not permitted.
Good for the crew, bad for airport security!
When carriage is allowed by the operator, cartridges for sporting weapons, providing they are in Division 1.4S (basically they have to be packaged, and any dangerous effect they have can be contained within in the packaging) they are for that person's own use, they are securely boxed and in quantities not exceeding 5kg gross mass and they are in CHECKED BAGGAGE. Cartridges with incendiary or explosive projectiles are not permitted.
Good for the crew, bad for airport security!
Nobody cares about security anyway and to most people we are a pain in the rear end. God only knows why I still care about my job.
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Skysista
Personal opinion, but I feel more threatened by the thought of someone smoking in the loos and setting the aircraft on fire.
History suggests that this is a more probable event and it is potentially lethal.
Of course, the ammunition should not have got on board, but unless someone had the intent to set it off.....
Then again, someone could carry a lighter with the express intent of setting the loos on fire, a bottle of Smirnoff would also greatly add to the conflagration.
So how paranoid are we all feeling?
Personal opinion, but I feel more threatened by the thought of someone smoking in the loos and setting the aircraft on fire.
History suggests that this is a more probable event and it is potentially lethal.
Of course, the ammunition should not have got on board, but unless someone had the intent to set it off.....
Then again, someone could carry a lighter with the express intent of setting the loos on fire, a bottle of Smirnoff would also greatly add to the conflagration.
So how paranoid are we all feeling?
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Skysista
ammo 'on it's own' isn't so innocent
As ever, it's all down to the intention of the person carrying it, so I agree with you and despite all the "security", those with ill intent might still be able to improvise a weapon from items available airside.
ammo 'on it's own' isn't so innocent
As ever, it's all down to the intention of the person carrying it, so I agree with you and despite all the "security", those with ill intent might still be able to improvise a weapon from items available airside.
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Which brings us back to the "wine glass ok, forks not" paradox!!! 
Security is only as good as its weakest link...! (Which, given the state of things... argh, never mind, I'll only start ranting again....!
)
Security is only as good as its weakest link...! (Which, given the state of things... argh, never mind, I'll only start ranting again....!
)
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yeah
When asked the question "have you got any dangerous objects in your hand luggage" I answer no, because thats the required response.
But generally, I have -
- a 1m garotte (aka a laptop computer power cord)
- a 1.8m garotte (aka an ethernet cable)
- a silk garotte (aka tie)
- a blunt instrument weighing 1.6 kgs (laptop)
- a very powerful battery that could be made to generate a lot of heat, possibly even set on fire
- stabbing weapons (pens, pda stylus)
etc
So I believe that the weakest link in our security is not understanding the intentions of people boarding flights - see Danny's comments elsewhere about profiling.
It would be highly foolish to think that the bad guys have gone away, but equally our present system is pretty onerus and seems far from perfect.
When asked the question "have you got any dangerous objects in your hand luggage" I answer no, because thats the required response.
But generally, I have -
- a 1m garotte (aka a laptop computer power cord)
- a 1.8m garotte (aka an ethernet cable)
- a silk garotte (aka tie)
- a blunt instrument weighing 1.6 kgs (laptop)
- a very powerful battery that could be made to generate a lot of heat, possibly even set on fire
- stabbing weapons (pens, pda stylus)
etc
So I believe that the weakest link in our security is not understanding the intentions of people boarding flights - see Danny's comments elsewhere about profiling.
It would be highly foolish to think that the bad guys have gone away, but equally our present system is pretty onerus and seems far from perfect.
Gender Faculty Specialist
I'll help.
Checked baggage is more accurately reffered to as "checked IN baggage". ie. Hold baggage.
And I would have thought that with all these modern x-ray machines and the like, it would have been easy to spot ammunition in any hand baggage.
Again I say WELL DONE TO THE CREW
Checked baggage is more accurately reffered to as "checked IN baggage". ie. Hold baggage.
And I would have thought that with all these modern x-ray machines and the like, it would have been easy to spot ammunition in any hand baggage.
Again I say WELL DONE TO THE CREW
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Originally Posted by SLFguy
Eaglestar...
You are in airport, (I assume),security yet you don't understand the phrase 'Checked Baggage'?
You are in airport, (I assume),security yet you don't understand the phrase 'Checked Baggage'?
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Final 3 Greens
What a P... poor post.
At a certain uk airport we do not ask "do you have any dangerous items in your hand luggage," we verify that for ourselves.
Would you therefore be happy if we removed said items specified as being potentially dangerous? As for profiling, please enlighten me, what does a potential terrorist / potential suicide look like, and do we exclude all air crewe as being altogether on a higher plain.
Pleeeeeese
What a P... poor post.
At a certain uk airport we do not ask "do you have any dangerous items in your hand luggage," we verify that for ourselves.
Would you therefore be happy if we removed said items specified as being potentially dangerous? As for profiling, please enlighten me, what does a potential terrorist / potential suicide look like, and do we exclude all air crewe as being altogether on a higher plain.
Pleeeeeese
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Flipside,
I regularly get a "random extra check" - probably due to "profiling" as I have a passport full of Mid-East stamps (I live there, work there, and when given the opportunity go to Church there!) but I accept that it is SOP and roll with it.
"Airside IEDs" - They sell litre bottles of inflammable materials in LHR shops and on the duty-free trolleys, but (in USA) take away my tiny, 2cc's of gas disposable lighter so I can;t have a smoke when I land at LHR (at the "authorised point" - which is after customs, immigration, baggage - OUTSIDE the airport!)
Weapons - see above comments about 1-litre "Glasgow Daggers" - what happened to the plastic DF bottles of 30 years ago? If the punters seriously object to the flavour of booze from plastic bottles, let then pay the extra couple of quid to buy glass bottles from the local off-license! (LHR "duty free" isn't really that cheap anyway, due to the probably exorbitant rents charged to the shops to sell their wares there.)
Sorry, but I've flown many times in/through Mid-East, Europe, US of A, and I find the airport "security" is (IMHO) more of a show than a real "operation"
It might stop the amateur, but I'm not sure that a serious intelligent operator would be stopped 100% of the time.
(though a few more security staff at LHR might be a good idea as I get the impression that they are hard-pressed to reconcile getting the pax through in time for their flights with doing an efficient job - I sympathise with them there)
I regularly get a "random extra check" - probably due to "profiling" as I have a passport full of Mid-East stamps (I live there, work there, and when given the opportunity go to Church there!) but I accept that it is SOP and roll with it.
"Airside IEDs" - They sell litre bottles of inflammable materials in LHR shops and on the duty-free trolleys, but (in USA) take away my tiny, 2cc's of gas disposable lighter so I can;t have a smoke when I land at LHR (at the "authorised point" - which is after customs, immigration, baggage - OUTSIDE the airport!)
Weapons - see above comments about 1-litre "Glasgow Daggers" - what happened to the plastic DF bottles of 30 years ago? If the punters seriously object to the flavour of booze from plastic bottles, let then pay the extra couple of quid to buy glass bottles from the local off-license! (LHR "duty free" isn't really that cheap anyway, due to the probably exorbitant rents charged to the shops to sell their wares there.)
Sorry, but I've flown many times in/through Mid-East, Europe, US of A, and I find the airport "security" is (IMHO) more of a show than a real "operation"
It might stop the amateur, but I'm not sure that a serious intelligent operator would be stopped 100% of the time.(though a few more security staff at LHR might be a good idea as I get the impression that they are hard-pressed to reconcile getting the pax through in time for their flights with doing an efficient job - I sympathise with them there)
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Flipside Up
At a certain uk airport we do not ask "do you have any dangerous items in your hand luggage," we verify that for ourselves.
I was basing my comment on what happens when I check in at LHR and LGW, since I believe that the airline personnel are required to ask these questions by law. So I assume from your reply that you are a security person.
Would you therefore be happy if we removed said items specified as being potentially dangerous?
Well, you might also need to remove a lot of other things too, including my belt, which can also be used as an improvised ligature and what about my hands? As a Karate black belt, you might be worried about those too?
Your comment just proves my point, it is intent that determines what is and isn't a risk. Apparently the authorities accepted that the Italian man had made a genuine mistake and was not a threat, although I totally respect the cabin crew for their swift professional actions.
As for profiling, please enlighten me, what does a potential terrorist / potential suicide look like
I have no idea what a potential terrorist looks like and I believe that there is rather more to profiling when done properly, maybe you should ask someone at El Al, who seem to be rather good at it.
and do we exclude all air crewe as being altogether on a higher plain
Well, firstly I think that you mean "plane", not plain.
Grammar is obviously not your strength?
I don't see why air crew should be excluded from checks nor security personnel. By the way, I am not air crew, just one of the punters who pays the security peeps wages by means of pax tax.
At a certain uk airport we do not ask "do you have any dangerous items in your hand luggage," we verify that for ourselves.
I was basing my comment on what happens when I check in at LHR and LGW, since I believe that the airline personnel are required to ask these questions by law. So I assume from your reply that you are a security person.
Would you therefore be happy if we removed said items specified as being potentially dangerous?
Well, you might also need to remove a lot of other things too, including my belt, which can also be used as an improvised ligature and what about my hands? As a Karate black belt, you might be worried about those too?
Your comment just proves my point, it is intent that determines what is and isn't a risk. Apparently the authorities accepted that the Italian man had made a genuine mistake and was not a threat, although I totally respect the cabin crew for their swift professional actions.
As for profiling, please enlighten me, what does a potential terrorist / potential suicide look like
I have no idea what a potential terrorist looks like and I believe that there is rather more to profiling when done properly, maybe you should ask someone at El Al, who seem to be rather good at it.
and do we exclude all air crewe as being altogether on a higher plain
Well, firstly I think that you mean "plane", not plain.
Grammar is obviously not your strength?
I don't see why air crew should be excluded from checks nor security personnel. By the way, I am not air crew, just one of the punters who pays the security peeps wages by means of pax tax.
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Ex Simguy
Hey come on.
We all know that there is no such thing as 100% security. If there was, the number of flight movements, not to mention subway trains, would need to be reduced by maybe two thirds. Everything is a compromise based upon known facts and intelligence. We ALL have a responsibility towards safeguarding lives and property, and it does not help when un-informed individuals continue to take cheap shots at those tasked with aviation safety issues.
Who would be to blame I wonder if an incident occured where a knife masquerading as a pen or a comb was used in a situation that jeopardised the safety of a flight?
We need to be together on safety, right?
Hey come on.
We all know that there is no such thing as 100% security. If there was, the number of flight movements, not to mention subway trains, would need to be reduced by maybe two thirds. Everything is a compromise based upon known facts and intelligence. We ALL have a responsibility towards safeguarding lives and property, and it does not help when un-informed individuals continue to take cheap shots at those tasked with aviation safety issues.
Who would be to blame I wonder if an incident occured where a knife masquerading as a pen or a comb was used in a situation that jeopardised the safety of a flight?
We need to be together on safety, right?