BA Connect
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Going back to something someone said earlier regarding the hard-sell over the PA system. What's the deal with the crew of locos not knowing anything about the PA volume setting these days! There is after all a reason why there is an adjuster, which most non-locos are trained to use to compensate for cabin noise levels. These are obviously higher during climb out than say during taxiing. Is this not in their low cost training, or has the volume button been removed along with window-blinds, seat recline function etc??
Being fairly tall my ear is only ever a few inches from the overhead speakers, and even with fingers discretely in ears it is still loud. Minus fingers it is just disturbingly deafening!
Surely there must be a way of applying some EU directive or H&S standard on safe cabin dB levels. The source does not only have to be engine noise!
Being fairly tall my ear is only ever a few inches from the overhead speakers, and even with fingers discretely in ears it is still loud. Minus fingers it is just disturbingly deafening!
Surely there must be a way of applying some EU directive or H&S standard on safe cabin dB levels. The source does not only have to be engine noise!
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Something I wanted to add to that post... but slightly different:
Yes but let's not forget that they are also targetting much wider passenger catchment areas. e.g. Frankfurt-Hahn airport maybe 160km from FRA but has now also got great bus links to other populated areas of Western Germany and beyond. It could just as well be called Luxemburg-Hahn, Trier-Hahn etc.
Also, think about othe important exceptions like Ciampino... actually the closest airport to Rome centre AFIK!
Many of their destinations are also new-startups into what they see as a new catchment area (not only targeting cities), which up until now have had NO significant airlinks by ANY airline. e.g the 3-country catchment area of (tiny) Friedrichshafen, Karlsruhe-Baden (2 countries), Valladolid and many of their Polish destinations.
Originally Posted by Cyrano
I think we could agree 100% that a lot of Ryanair airports are out of the way and require long bus journeys.....
Also, think about othe important exceptions like Ciampino... actually the closest airport to Rome centre AFIK!
Many of their destinations are also new-startups into what they see as a new catchment area (not only targeting cities), which up until now have had NO significant airlinks by ANY airline. e.g the 3-country catchment area of (tiny) Friedrichshafen, Karlsruhe-Baden (2 countries), Valladolid and many of their Polish destinations.
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Originally Posted by masalaairlines
. Is this not in their low cost training, or has the volume button been removed along with window-blinds, seat recline function etc??
I hate the FR seats these days, the horrible fake leather and the lack of a seat back picket and recline feature are just two of the reasons I leave thier website till last when booking a flight.
As for PA announcements, I've never had any problem with them, but then I have only used LOCO's to fly from EDI/GLA/PIK-LTN/STN so maybe these flights aren't long enough for them to go wild.
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Maybe the clue is in the 'Connect' part of BA Connect. It's about the only thing to differentiate BA from the LOCO lot right now, BA will 'connect' you to another flight whereas the LOCO will blatently tell you they are point to point.
So when BA provide service to/from one of these non 'sensible' airports (which appears to be defined as being in the UK but not near London) you 'connect' to the 'sensible' airport in order to get somewhere via another flight. The LOCO approach appears to service airports in non 'sensible' places but will fly you to another non 'sensible' airport without any connecting. For some this makes a lot more sense, i.e the tens of millions of people who don't live near Heathrow or Gatwick.
Also, why do people consider the 'destination' to be in continental Europe. People in Europe might be a bit offended by that, they may think the destination is in the UK. If they want to get to anywhere outside London (for there is life outside the M25) it might just be more convenient to fly to EMA or BRS or LPL or NCL. London is an important city, sure, but it's not the be all and end all, and life is far better in parts of the country where you don't spend all your disposable income on a mortgage. The LOCOs are addressing that market, and if you look at their loads, they appear to be doing very well indeed. As we are not wasting all our money on mortgage interest we might be able to afford to fly to Europe when our London dwellers cannot.
I bet you once the FR and EZ network matures they will start integrated service just like Southwest does. They will then have a massive European network in place, which flies to airports with loads of customers within an hour's travel (about what it takes to get from the gate to the runway at LHR
) BA can connect you to heathrow from a shrinking number of regional airports, but what's the point of using BA if I can get within 50 miles of my destination anyway for a fraction of the price and avoid LHR in the process? BA connect might make sense if you are flying to New York from the provinces, but not if you are flying to Rome. Even so, you can fly nonstop to NY now from places outside of London, and look at the airlines moving to MAN/BHX for their long haul flights via Dubai and places.
So when BA provide service to/from one of these non 'sensible' airports (which appears to be defined as being in the UK but not near London) you 'connect' to the 'sensible' airport in order to get somewhere via another flight. The LOCO approach appears to service airports in non 'sensible' places but will fly you to another non 'sensible' airport without any connecting. For some this makes a lot more sense, i.e the tens of millions of people who don't live near Heathrow or Gatwick.
Also, why do people consider the 'destination' to be in continental Europe. People in Europe might be a bit offended by that, they may think the destination is in the UK. If they want to get to anywhere outside London (for there is life outside the M25) it might just be more convenient to fly to EMA or BRS or LPL or NCL. London is an important city, sure, but it's not the be all and end all, and life is far better in parts of the country where you don't spend all your disposable income on a mortgage. The LOCOs are addressing that market, and if you look at their loads, they appear to be doing very well indeed. As we are not wasting all our money on mortgage interest we might be able to afford to fly to Europe when our London dwellers cannot.
I bet you once the FR and EZ network matures they will start integrated service just like Southwest does. They will then have a massive European network in place, which flies to airports with loads of customers within an hour's travel (about what it takes to get from the gate to the runway at LHR
) BA can connect you to heathrow from a shrinking number of regional airports, but what's the point of using BA if I can get within 50 miles of my destination anyway for a fraction of the price and avoid LHR in the process? BA connect might make sense if you are flying to New York from the provinces, but not if you are flying to Rome. Even so, you can fly nonstop to NY now from places outside of London, and look at the airlines moving to MAN/BHX for their long haul flights via Dubai and places.
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Originally Posted by slim_slag
Even so, you can fly nonstop to NY now from places outside of London, and look at the airlines moving to MAN/BHX for their long haul flights via Dubai and places.
Recent example of FR's dirt cheap..one way services to the rescue: Me and the Mrs. going to Bahrain for the GP...We got tickets from Dublin instead of LHR. I was in the North East so I flew in from NCL, the Mrs. flew in from MAN. Then we caught Gulf Air to BAH. On the way back I had a meeting back in the North East so I got FR back to MME, and the Mrs had to be in LPL. Our 4 FR sectors cost us less than £75!! Now figure that all via LHR and with BA connect!
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Air Berlin do now offer through ticketing, but i don't know the terms and conditions etc..
I just don't get the philosophy at BA, running down a quality product, as that feeds their long haul network, both on departure from the UK and upon arrival. I try to avoid BA connect when there is an alternative with a proper airline. Heck, klm can still do freee food and drinks (including alcoholic drinks), and at lower prices than BA or BMI.
If a travelinn/lodge/budget hotel opens up in the same street as a five star, the five star hotel management do not immediately decide to become a budget hotel. Instead, what savvy management does is use every trick in the book to differentiate itself from the budget chain, in order to justify the fact that it may be more expensive.
I personally think BA have lost the plot, and will probably end up like BMI domestic, who no longer seem able to offer through ticketing, unless travelling business class (which on BMI is exactly the same as economy but costs more). I guess that's what you get with a budget airline minded man in charge. BA should be thinking nothing but quality - it is what they are good at, just as ryanair or easyjet are really good at the budget approach.
I just don't get the philosophy at BA, running down a quality product, as that feeds their long haul network, both on departure from the UK and upon arrival. I try to avoid BA connect when there is an alternative with a proper airline. Heck, klm can still do freee food and drinks (including alcoholic drinks), and at lower prices than BA or BMI.
If a travelinn/lodge/budget hotel opens up in the same street as a five star, the five star hotel management do not immediately decide to become a budget hotel. Instead, what savvy management does is use every trick in the book to differentiate itself from the budget chain, in order to justify the fact that it may be more expensive.
I personally think BA have lost the plot, and will probably end up like BMI domestic, who no longer seem able to offer through ticketing, unless travelling business class (which on BMI is exactly the same as economy but costs more). I guess that's what you get with a budget airline minded man in charge. BA should be thinking nothing but quality - it is what they are good at, just as ryanair or easyjet are really good at the budget approach.
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10secondsurvey - I agree with a lot of your statement, but disagree that "BA has lost the plot!" Indeed, considering the high fuel prices which, despite all their bravado and bluster, is placing EasyJet and Ryanair in deep financial doo doo, you are going to be looking at a very impressive set of profit figures for BA tomorrow - and I will be getting a bonus! I don't think Rod Eddington and Willie Walsh would have achieved this if we had "lost the plot!"
The loads on our flights are high, especially in the premium market, and this reflects the fact that the majority of our customers are happy to pay the quoted fares. I think our aim is to be competitive, but not necessarily the cheapest.
However, I do agree that marketing have lost sight of which type of customers we want to target - we're still bumbling along the "we want them all" road but, it has to be admitted, we are succeeding despite the high fuel prices and frequent criticism from the Daily Mail / Evening Standard!
The loads on our flights are high, especially in the premium market, and this reflects the fact that the majority of our customers are happy to pay the quoted fares. I think our aim is to be competitive, but not necessarily the cheapest.
However, I do agree that marketing have lost sight of which type of customers we want to target - we're still bumbling along the "we want them all" road but, it has to be admitted, we are succeeding despite the high fuel prices and frequent criticism from the Daily Mail / Evening Standard!
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I don't know how many people who have moaned about the BA Connect product have actually tried it, but I'd be prepared to say that it's one of the best low-cost airline products around that I've tried. The ground staff & cabin crew manage to pull of a sense of service & class which isn't always found at low-cost airlines, you can definitely see the British Airways standards of training, along with a very well-groomed uniform which just keeps the sense of decorum that most passengers expect from BA. I'd say the only difference is that now there is no Club Europe (a complete con on an ERJ-145 anyway) and you have to pay for food & drink, and I'd rather have the all-day breakfast at a fiver, than have one of the god awful "all day deli" bags, or the bags of crisps BA are rumoured to be using or about to use on shorthaul flights ex-LHR.
All in all, BA Connect are responding to a new way of flying in the regions, where people are primarily interested in price. BA have kept with Connect things important to their customers like online checkin, self-service checkin, executive club lounges & mileage, flexible tickets, leather seats and BA standards of service. Only thing is prices have dropped, they're now called BA Connect and food is no longer free. I fail to see the big deal ... in fact bmibaby ought to learn from them.
All in all, BA Connect are responding to a new way of flying in the regions, where people are primarily interested in price. BA have kept with Connect things important to their customers like online checkin, self-service checkin, executive club lounges & mileage, flexible tickets, leather seats and BA standards of service. Only thing is prices have dropped, they're now called BA Connect and food is no longer free. I fail to see the big deal ... in fact bmibaby ought to learn from them.
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I agree with thomsonfly about BMI baby learning a thing or two from BA. Maybe BMI need to learn a thing or two as well. The problem I have with BA connect, is that generally (and I fly in EU a lot) I can't see much of a difference in price, over previous BA prices. I will pay more for a quality product, but I won't pay more for nothing extra.
I still believe they should focus on quality, and stop trying to be something they are not. Effectively they are 'diluting' their product, and hoping that most of their flyers won't notice too much. BMI thought they could do that as well.
On the upside, BA connect has not yet plumbed the depths of BMI - an outfit that lost the plot some time ago (and this from someone who used to prefer flying BMI over BA).
I still believe they should focus on quality, and stop trying to be something they are not. Effectively they are 'diluting' their product, and hoping that most of their flyers won't notice too much. BMI thought they could do that as well.
On the upside, BA connect has not yet plumbed the depths of BMI - an outfit that lost the plot some time ago (and this from someone who used to prefer flying BMI over BA).
