Ryanair leave passengers in the lurch again
Originally Posted by under_exposed
They would say "Sorry we have no cake, here is your 50p back" and you would go elsewhere for a cake.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a particular fan of Ryanair, but it seems some people want to have it both ways. They're happy enough to take advantage of Ryanair fares and Ryanair routes that wouldn't be viable for a traditional carrier, but in the small minority of cases where something goes wrong they then expect the backup and customer support of a full fare airline.
You have a choice. If you want the security of being taken care of when your flight is cancelled, then choose your carrier accordingly.
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Sorry we don'y actually have a cake for you. I know you ordered your cake three months ago and we made you stand in line and take a ticket when you arrived but we're sorry.
Here's your 50p back. (Fair enough)
If you want a similar cake tomorrow you can have it for 200 euro. (Not really fair)
Don't get angry! What do you expect? You only paid 50p in the first place! (Not really fair) The fact that our oven broke is immaterial! (Fair enough)
If we didn't have your cake because the delivery man couldn't get through the snow you wouldn't have got anything back at all so suck it up!!! (Hmmmmmm.....)
I'm kinda hungry now........
Here's your 50p back. (Fair enough)
If you want a similar cake tomorrow you can have it for 200 euro. (Not really fair)
Don't get angry! What do you expect? You only paid 50p in the first place! (Not really fair) The fact that our oven broke is immaterial! (Fair enough)
If we didn't have your cake because the delivery man couldn't get through the snow you wouldn't have got anything back at all so suck it up!!! (Hmmmmmm.....)
I'm kinda hungry now........
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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The argument about not paying much is specious. My thoughts are that you have a contract with Ryanair. On the basis of that contract the passenger then enters into other contracts for car hire and accomadation which hav like Ryanair been paid for in advance. It follows therefore that Ryanair opting out of its side of the contract places the passenger in a situation where not only could they loose their hotel costs but also their holiday.
In the case that I quoted the passengers had actually checked in for the flight and had therefore been accepted for travel (they had paid 1p for the flight plus the usual "loads of money" for various additional costs).
Due to the cancellation they incurred the cost of buying short notice tickets back to the UK and car hire for the night. In addition they missed their work next day.
So thanks MOL you will be hearig from them.
In the case that I quoted the passengers had actually checked in for the flight and had therefore been accepted for travel (they had paid 1p for the flight plus the usual "loads of money" for various additional costs).
Due to the cancellation they incurred the cost of buying short notice tickets back to the UK and car hire for the night. In addition they missed their work next day.
So thanks MOL you will be hearig from them.
Many of you keep on about "you get what you pay for". This is total rot. Only a relatively small percentage of the seats on each flight are sold at giveaway prices. A large majority of pax who are poorly treated by the likes of RYR have paid standard type fares.
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Interestingly they had already been moved from Thursday to Friday by Ryanair and the operating airline on the way out was a Spanish Subcharter. I suspect that this is all tied in with the earlier thread about "late delivery of aircraft from Boeing" otherwise know as "lack of Crews".
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Always amusing to read the pros and cons of Ryanair in pprune!
Cutting through the rhetoric, there are some interesting questions behind this, apart from the obvious ones.
1) Why do customers put up with Ryanair's lack of service? (and they do in their droves)
2) How far are Ryanair prepared to push the envelope, when it comes to their customers?
The above are of course, linked. The analogy of the cake is apt I think. Ryanair customers are going for the cake at 50p, flying in the face of conventional wisdom, that says that there is a concept of value and you get what you pay for. I think the reasons are quite complicated and there is no one answer. Some demand, rightly or wrongly, that the cake be fresh. Others don't give a hoot and accept "caveat emptor". Again, from the competition point of view, it is probably the case that their assumptions of customers demands for service are flawed. The competition is also not playing to their own strengths, as well as allowing Ryanair to lead the way, instead of pre-empting their moves. On the one hand you have Ryanair, who are sailing as close to the wind as their customers will permit them. On the other, the competition are lacking flexibility, consistency and above all, leadership and innovation.
That all said, my own experience of being "left in the lurch" by Ryanair is comparitively pleasant. Arriving for a flight from Treviso to the UK in August 2004, we found that flight was delayed. After an hour, it became clear there was no aircraft. After another hour or two, however, a fleet of coaches turned up and bussed us all (around 100 PAX) about 1.5 hrs to another airport, where lo and behold, there was a Ryanair plane on the tarmac. About 4.5 hours delay, but a flight nevertheless. From a customer service point of view, no-show of original aircraft aside, we could expect not much more from a regular carrier. It was only when on the coach and hurtling through the Italian countryside, that I realised that my girlfriend, who is Thai and requires a Shengen visa, had simply walked out of the airport, hung around in the car park and got on the coach, etc, AFTER being cleared out of the Shengen area by immigration. Didn't seem to worry the Italians though, and there was no problem at the second airport!
Cutting through the rhetoric, there are some interesting questions behind this, apart from the obvious ones.
1) Why do customers put up with Ryanair's lack of service? (and they do in their droves)
2) How far are Ryanair prepared to push the envelope, when it comes to their customers?
The above are of course, linked. The analogy of the cake is apt I think. Ryanair customers are going for the cake at 50p, flying in the face of conventional wisdom, that says that there is a concept of value and you get what you pay for. I think the reasons are quite complicated and there is no one answer. Some demand, rightly or wrongly, that the cake be fresh. Others don't give a hoot and accept "caveat emptor". Again, from the competition point of view, it is probably the case that their assumptions of customers demands for service are flawed. The competition is also not playing to their own strengths, as well as allowing Ryanair to lead the way, instead of pre-empting their moves. On the one hand you have Ryanair, who are sailing as close to the wind as their customers will permit them. On the other, the competition are lacking flexibility, consistency and above all, leadership and innovation.
That all said, my own experience of being "left in the lurch" by Ryanair is comparitively pleasant. Arriving for a flight from Treviso to the UK in August 2004, we found that flight was delayed. After an hour, it became clear there was no aircraft. After another hour or two, however, a fleet of coaches turned up and bussed us all (around 100 PAX) about 1.5 hrs to another airport, where lo and behold, there was a Ryanair plane on the tarmac. About 4.5 hours delay, but a flight nevertheless. From a customer service point of view, no-show of original aircraft aside, we could expect not much more from a regular carrier. It was only when on the coach and hurtling through the Italian countryside, that I realised that my girlfriend, who is Thai and requires a Shengen visa, had simply walked out of the airport, hung around in the car park and got on the coach, etc, AFTER being cleared out of the Shengen area by immigration. Didn't seem to worry the Italians though, and there was no problem at the second airport!
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EU Reg 261/2004
It is true that the EU regulation 261/2004 mandates compensation.
It is also true that Ryanair (and other low-fare airlines) have jointly contested this law as transposed into UK legislation since its introduction.
The case having gone through the UK legal system was referred ultimately to the EU Court of Justice in Luxembourg, which has just (last week) pronounced on the case, in favour of the plaintiff and against the low-fare airlines.
It is now up to the low-fare airlines to comply with the ruling. The judges of the Court expressed the hope that they would do so, in order to avoid repeat applications through the courts and ultimately to the ECJ by passengers.
It is also true that Ryanair (and other low-fare airlines) have jointly contested this law as transposed into UK legislation since its introduction.
The case having gone through the UK legal system was referred ultimately to the EU Court of Justice in Luxembourg, which has just (last week) pronounced on the case, in favour of the plaintiff and against the low-fare airlines.
It is now up to the low-fare airlines to comply with the ruling. The judges of the Court expressed the hope that they would do so, in order to avoid repeat applications through the courts and ultimately to the ECJ by passengers.
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The regulation is at: http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sg...004&nu_doc=261
and is so clear that anyone can understand it.
Now whats the address of Ryanair customer services; or should they send it recorded delivery to MOL?
and is so clear that anyone can understand it.
Now whats the address of Ryanair customer services; or should they send it recorded delivery to MOL?
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Now then, lot's of inaccurate statements about the costs of trips on FR. If it continues I shall have to get my spreadsheet out, and we don't want that! 
daedalus, what "last week" case was that?
daedalus, what "last week" case was that?
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Many people I am sure fly Ryanair because they live close to local airport such as Stansted, Luton and dont want to travel to Heathrow. Therefore booking close to departure date often the fare is little different to B.A. - therefore not everyone pays 10 pounds or silly amount for fare and deserve better treatment.
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Ryanair will continue to do as they please until someone decides to get a court judgement against them and an airport sticks the snow ploughs round one of their aircraft. The bailiffs seem to be the only people that many companies will take notice of.
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Originally Posted by Bangkokeasy
1) Why do customers put up with Ryanair's lack of service? (and they do in their droves).
I suspect the majority are infrequent flyers who do not read boards such as these, and are thus unaware of Ryanair's umm... modus operandi.
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Originally Posted by Voeni
For the few pounds they pay, they simply cannot expect more! And this is by no means meant against FR, but against all complaining pax.
0.xy % of the pax, maybe ? And the big rest ?
I NEVER could get a ticket for a few pounds/euros.
I am not a FUN-Traveller maybe like you. I can not buy the ticket 3 yrs in advance to get the RYR-High-Special-Customer-Friendly-Offer-blablabla. for 99pence ONLY + let's say 45 pounds for tax/fees
So if they decide to cxl the flight just like this, close the counter and leave you in the middle of nowhere where most/nearly all "ryanair-central-airports" are, what's is next?
Now everybody (like you and the rest of the ryanair-fan-club-members) are fingerpointing to me and tells me the s**t (I appologize for the bad word behind):
"You just get what you payed for"
But those bigmouth fingerpointer did'nt ask ME what I payed. I payed almoust 200 euros. And there were travellers on this flight who payed even more.
Really not worth to get a MINIMUM service ?
It's time for politicians not only to act but to react against a so called "airline"
BEATING fundamental traveller rights with feet.--------
stop flying RYR
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First of all, I am NOT a FR-fan, I've never flown with them and probably never will (for reasons stated below and for them not showing up in Switzerland as well).
For sure, there must be some compensation, as stated above with regard to current law, which is applicable for Ryanair as well - absolutely right.
I'm just wondering why people choose Ryanair and start complaining afterwards, although their business model and their frequent lack of customer service (once again, I've never flown them but following all the disucssions in here) is widely known. And everyone knows about the "ryanair-central-airports" as well!
Everyone is free to choose the airline he likes to. But hey - Ryanair is a low-cost airline, so even if you pay a relatively high fare (which, I presume, is still the lowest compared to others...) - Ryanair is still low-cost and has not at all changed the business model just for the passengers paying the high fare.
Airbus_a321: No need to get aggressive! This is a discussion forum in here, ok? ;-) And I'm almost sure, the 200 euros were still the cheapest fare compared to others...
NB. I'm not sure, but didn't the EU (or probably just Germany) introduced a law, stating that 10% of all seats must be available at the lowest published fare? So it would not be 0.xy%... Just not too sure about it...
For sure, there must be some compensation, as stated above with regard to current law, which is applicable for Ryanair as well - absolutely right.
I'm just wondering why people choose Ryanair and start complaining afterwards, although their business model and their frequent lack of customer service (once again, I've never flown them but following all the disucssions in here) is widely known. And everyone knows about the "ryanair-central-airports" as well!
Everyone is free to choose the airline he likes to. But hey - Ryanair is a low-cost airline, so even if you pay a relatively high fare (which, I presume, is still the lowest compared to others...) - Ryanair is still low-cost and has not at all changed the business model just for the passengers paying the high fare.
Airbus_a321: No need to get aggressive! This is a discussion forum in here, ok? ;-) And I'm almost sure, the 200 euros were still the cheapest fare compared to others...
NB. I'm not sure, but didn't the EU (or probably just Germany) introduced a law, stating that 10% of all seats must be available at the lowest published fare? So it would not be 0.xy%... Just not too sure about it...
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Originally Posted by PaperTiger
How much of FR's loads are repeat business ? Genuine question - I have no idea.
I suspect the majority are infrequent flyers who do not read boards such as these, and are thus unaware of Ryanair's umm... modus operandi.
I suspect the majority are infrequent flyers who do not read boards such as these, and are thus unaware of Ryanair's umm... modus operandi.
Whatever you think of FR, the majority of their passengers are repeats. Most use them for a quick holiday but there are some business people. 99% probably don't read the boards but at the same time they know what they pay for.
All they want is to go from point A to point B, which FR do by the way for the cheapest price possible, nothing else. If they don't want to buy water or a sandwich from FR they bring their own, most do that too.
Bottom line is, if you don't want to feel "victimized" by FR then you are free to get "victimized" by your own national carrier, wherever you are from.
No one really flies for the "service", only to get to the destination.
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Give Mr O'Leary a break...he had an excellent day at Cheltenham yesterday with a winner or two...from his own horses...
and you cant say he does not spread his profits around, Ryanair sponsored a race with £40 odd thousand prize money on Wednesday
and you cant say he does not spread his profits around, Ryanair sponsored a race with £40 odd thousand prize money on Wednesday
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Interestingly in their Changes and Cancellations policy they clearly state "Your rights under EU Regulation 261/2004 are unaffected so in the case of denied boarding, flight cancellation or a delay in excess of two hours you will be provided with a written notice setting out the rules for compensation and assistance in line with such Regulation"
They (or their agents) don't however carry out what they say they should do and provide written notice of compensation, so get away with it.
They (or their agents) don't however carry out what they say they should do and provide written notice of compensation, so get away with it.
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Keep in mind, they will probably find the biggest Jobsworths to man their compsensation desk.
Can't wait to read some of the horror stories I'm sure people will be posting in the near future
Can't wait to read some of the horror stories I'm sure people will be posting in the near future
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Airbus 321.
Did you expect anything else? Come on, it's not a secret that Ryanair can disappoint - as can any airline. If you have to fly at short notice, you take the hit. The price of a flight to Aberdeen went up by 30 pounds in the time it took me to ask my girlfriend if she wanted to go - this was BA. A similar scenario in Germany put the price of an SFO ticket up by 200 Euros.
At least when our ABZ-LHR flight was cancelled, we were simply placed on a BMI flight with no fuss and plenty of apologies. But I must take issue with
because I live in a surreal world where people make their choices and accept the consequences. Since when did politicians actually improve things?
BOFH
Did you expect anything else? Come on, it's not a secret that Ryanair can disappoint - as can any airline. If you have to fly at short notice, you take the hit. The price of a flight to Aberdeen went up by 30 pounds in the time it took me to ask my girlfriend if she wanted to go - this was BA. A similar scenario in Germany put the price of an SFO ticket up by 200 Euros.
At least when our ABZ-LHR flight was cancelled, we were simply placed on a BMI flight with no fuss and plenty of apologies. But I must take issue with
It's time for politicians not only to act but to react against a so called "airline" BEATING fundamental traveller rights with feet.
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Can we stop talking about cake, its making me feel hungry
How about we talk about EU law and the French ban on British beef?
As for low cost airlines, well I have seen flights come up as Cancelled on the screens, followed by the phone number or website to contact for a refund.
Very helpful, but if you want staff, customer service, hotels and rebooking on a later flight then I'll tell you a secret - don't book with RyanAir (or EasyJet, though I have to say, they are miles better than O'Leary's outfit)).
How about we talk about EU law and the French ban on British beef?
As for low cost airlines, well I have seen flights come up as Cancelled on the screens, followed by the phone number or website to contact for a refund.
Very helpful, but if you want staff, customer service, hotels and rebooking on a later flight then I'll tell you a secret - don't book with RyanAir (or EasyJet, though I have to say, they are miles better than O'Leary's outfit)).