US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
OLBSLF
For your information, the Schengen treaty dates back 20 years and came into effect about 11 years ago.
Your lack of knowledge of this (and I am not attacking you for this) just typifies how little most Americans know Europe, because it so far away and not covered in your media.
For your information, the Schengen treaty dates back 20 years and came into effect about 11 years ago.
Your lack of knowledge of this (and I am not attacking you for this) just typifies how little most Americans know Europe, because it so far away and not covered in your media.
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
Originally Posted by stilton
Why on earth would you renounce your citizenship? What possible reason would there be to take such an action?
Power. Has Schwartzenegger revoked his Austrian citizenship? Might have made him more electable.
Taxes. Let's say you won the UK lottery jackpot where tax is not payable, only to have the Yanks claim 39%. Think you might just dispose of your US passport before you claimed the money?
And then there are people like John Paul Getty. He decided he liked English Cricket so much he took UK citizenship and turned in his US passport. The US embassy in London told him he was making a huge mistake but Getty said Not So. That is a good counter argument against those Americans who think the whole world wants to be Yanks, but then Americans who think that probably wouldn't listen anyway.
Final 3 Greens, You can say the same thing about most Europeans gross misunderstanding of what America is all about. Americans don't need to travel, the US has amazing natural beauty. Have you seen the visitor stats for Yosemite? I think 15% are German, 13% are British, and the rest of the world takes it to around 50%. I find that very interesting.
Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
I suppose that that there is a sum of money that changes everything. In the Murdoch and Schwartzenegger world that is rather a separate universe than the one I inhabit.
Still for me personally 'giving up' my UK citizenship was never an option. When I had decided to live and work for the forseeable future in the US I thought it only logical to become a US citizen.
I would never had done so without contacting the British embassy and being assured by them that I would not lose my UK citizenship.
I doubt many 'ordinary' Americans would give up there citizenship if they became a citizen of another country!
Still for me personally 'giving up' my UK citizenship was never an option. When I had decided to live and work for the forseeable future in the US I thought it only logical to become a US citizen.
I would never had done so without contacting the British embassy and being assured by them that I would not lose my UK citizenship.
I doubt many 'ordinary' Americans would give up there citizenship if they became a citizen of another country!
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
Originally Posted by stilton
Why on earth would you renounce your citizenship? What possible reason would there be to take such an action?
Fortunately, it seems that the trend worldwide is away from requirements of exclusive single citizenship. As far as concerns people I know, Australia and South Africa two other countries that have recently abandoned this doctrine, much to my friends' relief.
Originally Posted by stilton
Years ago I became a citizen of Hong Kong as well (before the handover) as I spent most of my youth there. According to the UK you can be a citizen of as many countries as you want, if you are a British citizen you will always be...a British citizen.
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
Have a look at this about the Schengen. Anybody know why The Brits never joined....
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/e.../schengen_html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/special_r...ngen/13508.stm
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/e.../schengen_html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/special_r...ngen/13508.stm
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
Your lack of knowledge of this (and I am not attacking you for this) just typifies how little most Americans know Europe, because it so far away and not covered in your media.
2) I'm well aware that you now don't need passports to go between most western European nations. From my perspective, 11 years ago is relatively recent. We can agree to disagree on the definition of recent and how that changes people's behavior with regards to getting passports.
3) Your cultural arrogance (Americans = ignorant, Europeans = worldly) typifies many postings here on pprune.
Last edited by OFBSLF; 16th Jan 2006 at 16:22.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
Originally Posted by stilton
Yes, I became a HK citizen in the mid to late seventies, before I suppose any of the restrictions you mentioned took place.
However, immigration rights to the UK and to the colonies/dependent territories varied according to the nature of one's personal ties. So there were some CUKCs who were entitled to enter the UK and some who weren't, and one couldn't tell just from the type of citizen they were because all were CUKCs. The anomalous disconnection between citizenship and immigration rights was tidied up (some would say entrenched) by splitting CUKC status into three categories in 1983 - British citizen, British Dependent Territories citizen and British overseas citizen.
I mention this partly because it's an interest of mine, being in a similar position to you, and partly in case you think you might ever want to assert your rights to live and work in HK, in which case you might want to see what your true position is. I've got relatives who have become naturalised citizens elsewhere, but are trying to assert and document their HK residency status at the moment to try to preserve their rights to return to HK if they wish to do that at a future time. It would be a pity to lose those rights by inaction if you think there's any prospect that you might want them in the future.
Of course, this subject is also a good cure for insomnia, should any want to know more ...
Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
Interesting information, it was so long ago for me that I really don't remember the details.
Not sure how it would relate if I ever wanted to work in HK but I probably closed that door a long time ago.
Not sure how it would relate if I ever wanted to work in HK but I probably closed that door a long time ago.
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
re only 20% of Americans hold a passport.
That's actually quite impressive if you think how many Americans are living in slums, rural poverty or inner city ghetto's. Think New Orleans and all the people left behind. I can bet none of those people have a passport. And in all American cities there are huge tracts of the city that are slum. Think LAX and the riots. How many of those folks had passports?
Before I get flamed and roasted, I lived in the States for 8 years and have a huge respect for the country and the people, h*ll I'm married to one. But they have perfected a fantastic labor pool system that keeps some 30-50% of people in poverty and eager for min wage work. Sometimes (as the owner of a mini hotel constantly searching for staff) I wish we had the same in England.
S
That's actually quite impressive if you think how many Americans are living in slums, rural poverty or inner city ghetto's. Think New Orleans and all the people left behind. I can bet none of those people have a passport. And in all American cities there are huge tracts of the city that are slum. Think LAX and the riots. How many of those folks had passports?
Before I get flamed and roasted, I lived in the States for 8 years and have a huge respect for the country and the people, h*ll I'm married to one. But they have perfected a fantastic labor pool system that keeps some 30-50% of people in poverty and eager for min wage work. Sometimes (as the owner of a mini hotel constantly searching for staff) I wish we had the same in England.
S
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OLBSLF
Only you can choose to feel attacked.
I have no sense of cultural arrogance, for example I know very little about Asia, since it is a long way away and not much covered in our press. For that matter, I know relatively little about the States too, although I have spend quite a lot of time working there.
My basic tenet is that Europeans experience cultural differences regularly, due to the amount of nations crammed into our continent and the amount of cross border trading.
Equally, one could argue that Americans are used to thinking on a bigger scale - certainly in business.
I work with many Americans and hold them in high regard as people who believe in "the art of the possible" and who will tirelessly try to work around problems to deliver a solution; in turn they lean on my experience of pan European culture.
But if you wish to feel attacked, then carry on. If you wish to believe that there is a cultural gradient, that's up to you - I see discrete cultures which are not measurable on a conitnuous scale.
Only you can choose to feel attacked.
I have no sense of cultural arrogance, for example I know very little about Asia, since it is a long way away and not much covered in our press. For that matter, I know relatively little about the States too, although I have spend quite a lot of time working there.
My basic tenet is that Europeans experience cultural differences regularly, due to the amount of nations crammed into our continent and the amount of cross border trading.
Equally, one could argue that Americans are used to thinking on a bigger scale - certainly in business.
I work with many Americans and hold them in high regard as people who believe in "the art of the possible" and who will tirelessly try to work around problems to deliver a solution; in turn they lean on my experience of pan European culture.
But if you wish to feel attacked, then carry on. If you wish to believe that there is a cultural gradient, that's up to you - I see discrete cultures which are not measurable on a conitnuous scale.
Está servira para distraerle.
Small informative encapsulation:
Schengen is a small town in Luxembourg. There, in 1985, France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Luxembourg and Germany signed an agreement to end controls on their internal frontiers. The agreement came into effect ten years later in 1995 when the five original members were joined by Spain and Portugal.
The agreememnt was not a formal European Union agreement.
It was at an EU summit in Amsterdam in 1997 that it was decided to bring Schengen under the EU umbrella.
Before this date and subsequent to it, several other countries joined Schengen. The UK and Eire remain outside the agreement primarily because of terrorism fears.
Having said all that; there is a certain characteristic which separates Europeans from United Staters these days.
The European is gradually being trained to think of himself as one who is graciously permitted in some instances to preserve his individual national identity without the substitution of a cohesive and satisfactory international one. This deprivation will increase in the years to come as financial, cultural and other boundaries become more clouded and mixed within Europe with the passage of time. Nationalism in Europe has been socialised to the point where it is now unfashionable to be seen to evince any characteristic of jingoist pride at all. In fact, given the powers that the Chekist police now have in England, patriotism is becoming downright dangerous. (I use Chekist here to remind readers that Lenin's secret police were known as such. It would hardly be apposite to compare the police of a socialist country such as England with the Gestapo of fascist Germany.)
In the United States, in contrast, national identity is encouraged to the point where, notwithstanding the huge demographic changes that take place from state to state as a consquence of a highly mobile work force, devotion to an individual state is more or less unknown in all but the most deprived cultural backwaters.
I surmise that the United States boasts a stronger, more durable and cohesive society than the masterpiece of fragmented borders and tumultuous ethnic confusion which so typifies the idiotic failure that is Europe today.
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This is from the US Embassy website in London (www.usembassy.org.uk):
Dual Nationality
In the 1980's, the Supreme Court ruled that U.S. citizenship is a constitutional right that cannot be taken away from a citizen who does not intend to relinquish it. Therefore, such actions as naturalization in a foreign country, travel on a foreign passport, employment with a foreign government, and voting in a foreign election do not automatically jeopardize American citizenship. However, please note that all U.S. citizens, even dual nationals, must enter and depart the United States on U.S. passports.
Dual Nationality
In the 1980's, the Supreme Court ruled that U.S. citizenship is a constitutional right that cannot be taken away from a citizen who does not intend to relinquish it. Therefore, such actions as naturalization in a foreign country, travel on a foreign passport, employment with a foreign government, and voting in a foreign election do not automatically jeopardize American citizenship. However, please note that all U.S. citizens, even dual nationals, must enter and depart the United States on U.S. passports.
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Just discovered that if you win the UK lottery, then revoke your US citizenship to avoid US tax, then claim the money it will not matter. The Yanks claim the right to tax you for 10 years after revoking citizenship. They are a nasty lot, that IRS. So I'd have to give the ticket to the missus, not sure what is worse 
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Originally Posted by slim_slag
So I'd have to give the ticket to the missus, not sure what is worse
