US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
OFBSLF
Paris to Berlin is 650 miles.
Please note that no passport is required between Paris and Berlin either, but I would assert that the cultural distance is thousands of times that of Boston to the West Coast.
And that's the point. Europeans are much more international in perspective, as we have far more cultures packed into our locale, one can go from the Slavic end of the Balkans to North Africa in a couple of hours, for instance.
Paris to Berlin is 650 miles.
Please note that no passport is required between Paris and Berlin either, but I would assert that the cultural distance is thousands of times that of Boston to the West Coast.
And that's the point. Europeans are much more international in perspective, as we have far more cultures packed into our locale, one can go from the Slavic end of the Balkans to North Africa in a couple of hours, for instance.
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
Please note that no passport is required between Paris and Berlin either
I would assert that the cultural distance is thousands of times that of Boston to the West Coast.
And by the way, the cultural distance from Cambridge, MA to Montague, MA is far greater than the cultural distance between Cambridge, MA and Berkeley, CA.
one can go from the Slavic end of the Balkans to North Africa in a couple of hours, for instance.
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
OFBSLF - its actually been a change for a number of years for Schengen countries to not need passports when visiting other such countries - will find the exact date for you.
Jordan
Jordan
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
Many reasons encouraged me to take the citizenship plunge:
The other four members of my family are US citizens
I dont have to go through the relative hassel of renewing my Greencard
I can work on military contracts (I'm an engineer) requiring security clearance
I can vote in everything from our local schoolboard elections to trying to keep out GWB - sorry, one extra vote couldn't swing it....
I have no less feelings for the UK - love the place, just couldnt live there again.
Does it must mean I'm a little more "international" than my ex-countrymen who fly to spain for two weeks every year and demand HP sauce on my English sausages while swilling some wood alcohol disguised as lager?? Can't say really. Tourons from most countries should be avoided like the plague.
Am I disloyal to the UK? My Mum would say yes but I don't think so. I had to come here to earn a decent living as an engineer - something that was not available to me back in the mid eighties in the UK.
A fellow ex-pat friend of mine went home to visit and went back to his old local pub. One old boy there said he was nuts for leaving England blah blah blah etc. Turns out he had never been outside of Hartlepool and he was in his seventies!!
Ahh, I feel better now. This thread does get the juices going eh? (Bit of Canadian speak there)
The other four members of my family are US citizens
I dont have to go through the relative hassel of renewing my Greencard
I can work on military contracts (I'm an engineer) requiring security clearance
I can vote in everything from our local schoolboard elections to trying to keep out GWB - sorry, one extra vote couldn't swing it....
I have no less feelings for the UK - love the place, just couldnt live there again.
Does it must mean I'm a little more "international" than my ex-countrymen who fly to spain for two weeks every year and demand HP sauce on my English sausages while swilling some wood alcohol disguised as lager?? Can't say really. Tourons from most countries should be avoided like the plague.
Am I disloyal to the UK? My Mum would say yes but I don't think so. I had to come here to earn a decent living as an engineer - something that was not available to me back in the mid eighties in the UK.
A fellow ex-pat friend of mine went home to visit and went back to his old local pub. One old boy there said he was nuts for leaving England blah blah blah etc. Turns out he had never been outside of Hartlepool and he was in his seventies!!
Ahh, I feel better now. This thread does get the juices going eh? (Bit of Canadian speak there)
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
However, PT6ER, in the event of conflict between the USA and the UK, (for example if the UK boycotts trade with the US over GM food), where would your loyalties lie - into which army would you accept your draft papers???
I still maintain you cannot serve two masters!!!
I still maintain you cannot serve two masters!!!
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
I grew up in Devon and consider myself a Devon lad, yet have lived in London for the past umptygrump years and consider myself a Londoner too (precisely because it wouldn't work the other way around!).
If the West Country ever comes into conflict with London (and shall Trelawney die?), which side would I be on? Loyalties aren't immutable, nor are they exclusive, nor can they always be equitably divided.
I think anyone in a family will have found that out...
R
If the West Country ever comes into conflict with London (and shall Trelawney die?), which side would I be on? Loyalties aren't immutable, nor are they exclusive, nor can they always be equitably divided.
I think anyone in a family will have found that out...
R
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
The US Oath of Allegiance (which is required in order to obtain citizenship) does explicitly require exclusive loyalty.
(Although apparently the US does not force people to give up other citizenships now - I know quite a number of people who do hold US and another passport, which is unambiguously in conflict with the Oath of Allegiance.)
(Although apparently the US does not force people to give up other citizenships now - I know quite a number of people who do hold US and another passport, which is unambiguously in conflict with the Oath of Allegiance.)
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
bealine, it is a moot point since a thickening waisteline and 45 years under my belt make the home guard my only chance to serve Queen and country or Republic!
I have heard of your particular question being asked at actual immigration interviews. All pretty daft really since I believe there is more chance of finding WMDs in Iraq than the two of our countries coming to blows.
When I did my citizenship interview I explicitly asked the orificer if he needed to take my British passport to which he replied "no".
I was under the impression that you can not give up your British citizenship but it can be taken away from you by HMG if they so desire. Does anyone know if that is true?
I do agree you cant serve two masters so I just do what "she who must be obeyed" says...all for a quiet life
I have heard of your particular question being asked at actual immigration interviews. All pretty daft really since I believe there is more chance of finding WMDs in Iraq than the two of our countries coming to blows.
When I did my citizenship interview I explicitly asked the orificer if he needed to take my British passport to which he replied "no".
I was under the impression that you can not give up your British citizenship but it can be taken away from you by HMG if they so desire. Does anyone know if that is true?
I do agree you cant serve two masters so I just do what "she who must be obeyed" says...all for a quiet life
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
Originally Posted by PT6ER
I was under the impression that you can not give up your British citizenship but it can be taken away from you by HMG if they so desire. Does anyone know if that is true?
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
The US oath of allegiance requires you to "bear true faith and allegiance" to the "Constitution and laws of the United States of America". That isn't such a bad thing, and is IMO significantly better than pledging allegiance to some batty human, elected or otherwise. It depends on whether you see the individual as sovereign, or the State.
It also requires you to "absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty". The UK apparently don't recognise that as renouncing UK citizenship and I see it the same way. One pays taxes to both regimes, and consider that more relevant in this day and age than paying allegiance.
Once entered the UK at LHR via the visitor's line using a US passport because the european line was significantly longer. Guy just waved me through, but you could see him deflate when he realised he couldn't give me a hard time about why I was there.
Profound stuff for we SLF
It also requires you to "absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty". The UK apparently don't recognise that as renouncing UK citizenship and I see it the same way. One pays taxes to both regimes, and consider that more relevant in this day and age than paying allegiance.
Once entered the UK at LHR via the visitor's line using a US passport because the european line was significantly longer. Guy just waved me through, but you could see him deflate when he realised he couldn't give me a hard time about why I was there.
Profound stuff for we SLF
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
I was born in Britain and so have a British passport but i have never sworn allegiance to Britain or it's monarchs I also hold Australian citizenship and in becoming a Aussie i swore allegiance to Australia and to the Queen of Australia so in the unlikely event of conflict what side should i be on?
You can renounce your British citizenship if you wish (download forms from home office website) costs 60 something pounds!!!
You can renounce your British citizenship if you wish (download forms from home office website) costs 60 something pounds!!!
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
One pays taxes to both regimes, and consider that more relevant in this day and age than paying allegiance
......and this is why the Al Queda operatives had such an easy job obtaining US and UK documentation!!!
......and this is why the Al Queda operatives had such an easy job obtaining US and UK documentation!!!
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
Hi All
Interesting post. I have both US and Uk passports and live permanently in the US - Long Island NY. The comments about the US not recognising the British citizenship are correct as far as I know, but my situation is that I gained both passports at birth; I was born in London but my father is a an American. I'm pretty sure that I never have to give up my UK citizenship; I hope not as I love living in the US, but you never know what the future holds!
Self Loading Freight; where did you live in Devon before London? My story is similar as I grep up in Dartmouth, Devon and then moved to Kensington, London...always glad to come accross a Devonshire Lad/Lass
Interesting post. I have both US and Uk passports and live permanently in the US - Long Island NY. The comments about the US not recognising the British citizenship are correct as far as I know, but my situation is that I gained both passports at birth; I was born in London but my father is a an American. I'm pretty sure that I never have to give up my UK citizenship; I hope not as I love living in the US, but you never know what the future holds!
Self Loading Freight; where did you live in Devon before London? My story is similar as I grep up in Dartmouth, Devon and then moved to Kensington, London...always glad to come accross a Devonshire Lad/Lass
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
EnglishmaninNY - A bit further west, a place called Tamerton Foliot to the north of Plymouth, and now in Holloway (via Stanmore, Chiswick, East Ham, Kensal Rise, Highgate... may have missed one!). Could see Saltash out of my bedroom window - best to keep an eye on 'em, I think...
R
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
Originally Posted by bealine
......and this is why the Al Queda operatives had such an easy job obtaining US and UK documentation!!!
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
I bet you I've been checked out in far more detail than most airline employees
......and have had to be withdrawn after so many complaints of sexual assault were made!!! (over 300 in one day!!!)
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
That would be a basic disclosure for people who have airside access. No fingerprints, all convictions that are spent don;t show up, cautions and arrests etc don't show up. Sounds like what I said is correct, that people who have been naturalised in the US have been checked out in more detail than most airline employees.
I am sure pilots and cabin crew who fly into the US are scrutinised in greater detail by the US, but they aren't most employees, and I bet they run those same checks on anybody with an FAA licence, not only those who fly into the States.
I am sure pilots and cabin crew who fly into the US are scrutinised in greater detail by the US, but they aren't most employees, and I bet they run those same checks on anybody with an FAA licence, not only those who fly into the States.
Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
Why on earth would you renounce your citizenship? What possible reason would there be to take such an action?
I am of English birth and am now an American citizen living and working in the US. I still consider myself English however.
Years ago I became a citizen of Hong Kong as well (before the handover) as I spent most of my youth there. According to the UK you can be a citizen of as many countries as you want, if you are a British citizen you will always be...a British citizen.
I don't think many people in this world would willingly renounce their citizenship of birth, indeed if that had been a requirement I would not have become an American citizen.
I am of English birth and am now an American citizen living and working in the US. I still consider myself English however.
Years ago I became a citizen of Hong Kong as well (before the handover) as I spent most of my youth there. According to the UK you can be a citizen of as many countries as you want, if you are a British citizen you will always be...a British citizen.
I don't think many people in this world would willingly renounce their citizenship of birth, indeed if that had been a requirement I would not have become an American citizen.
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Re: US/UK dual citizenship - passport misery
Just a point of order, being born in Britain is not a sufficient reason by itself to result in British Citizenship (unlike being born in the US or other places where it is sufficient).