The self loading process
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The self loading process
Bit of a moan probably....
but....
would it not be better for all concerned if passengers boarding an aircraft didn't insist on vitually getting undressed before they get in their seats and therefore unblock the aisle for everyone else?
We've all seen it - first person on board - Row 2 - starts looking for that extra special bit of overhead locker for their several bits of handluggage.
Then off comes the coat, folded carefully, neatly, ever so.....looks in overhead locker again for that special space. Then it's the jacket...same procedure. Then they realise they've left their book in the bag in the overhead locker...need to get it out... now ....can't find it.... was in here somewhere...ahhh found it... now I can sit down.
Thinks 'My my those people do look rather cross and wet and windblown should have got on first like me'.
Maybe ground crew could ask SLFs to remove their coats before boarding - would make the whole awful process better for everyone.
Also what if people with window seats were asked to board first?
but....
would it not be better for all concerned if passengers boarding an aircraft didn't insist on vitually getting undressed before they get in their seats and therefore unblock the aisle for everyone else?
We've all seen it - first person on board - Row 2 - starts looking for that extra special bit of overhead locker for their several bits of handluggage.
Then off comes the coat, folded carefully, neatly, ever so.....looks in overhead locker again for that special space. Then it's the jacket...same procedure. Then they realise they've left their book in the bag in the overhead locker...need to get it out... now ....can't find it.... was in here somewhere...ahhh found it... now I can sit down.
Thinks 'My my those people do look rather cross and wet and windblown should have got on first like me'.
Maybe ground crew could ask SLFs to remove their coats before boarding - would make the whole awful process better for everyone.
Also what if people with window seats were asked to board first?
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Maybe ground crew could ask SLFs to remove their coats before boarding
You could ask at the gate, but people tend not to listen, or else will only hear what they want to hear. Those who do listen and comply will tend to be the same people that would not have caused the problem in the first place.
I'm obviously feeling a bit grumpy tonight - apols!!!
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but it's worth a try though isn't it? People's habits can and do change - remember it's only a few years back that people used to expect to enjoy a smoke on board.
It's mainly down to poor organisation (i.e. couldn't care less - because we don't get paid enough) by the handling agents. A simple, strictly enforced, boarding by rows starting from the rear would see a notable improvement. It's done by many in the USA. Of course, I recognise that this isn't possible when pax are bussed to the a/c! An alternative might be to equip FAs with whips - although many of these would probably go missing on night stops 
Paxing All Over The World
Over the past ten years or so, I have seen all attempts at boarding by zones or rows to fail. The pax have - for the most part - developed a herding instinct.
I think that this is largely driven by the fact that people are bringing more junk into the cabin and want to get their junk in the locker before anyone else. So they present in the queue irrespective of which row they are in. Staff are very reluctant to challenge these people, as they almost certainly be verbally abused. On the occasions that biz bax are boarded first, the situation is always made worse - in the exact way that VHF Flyer describes.
Whilst we continue to board a/c by a single gangway, this problem will continue. I often see long haul widebodies boarded through a single door - even if a second air bridge is available. My presumption is that someone is saving on staff. This is the one aspect of airport behaviour that HAS to be addressed before A380 enters service.
I think that this is largely driven by the fact that people are bringing more junk into the cabin and want to get their junk in the locker before anyone else. So they present in the queue irrespective of which row they are in. Staff are very reluctant to challenge these people, as they almost certainly be verbally abused. On the occasions that biz bax are boarded first, the situation is always made worse - in the exact way that VHF Flyer describes.
Whilst we continue to board a/c by a single gangway, this problem will continue. I often see long haul widebodies boarded through a single door - even if a second air bridge is available. My presumption is that someone is saving on staff. This is the one aspect of airport behaviour that HAS to be addressed before A380 enters service.
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Would surely make sense for twin aisles (with 2 entry doors) to be boarded with 2 airbridges - one for each aisle.
And tough luck for the J class pax who will have other pax rumbling through their cabin - at least they'll all be on their way faster.
Just my tuppence.
cheers
FF
And tough luck for the J class pax who will have other pax rumbling through their cabin - at least they'll all be on their way faster.
Just my tuppence.
cheers
FF
Paxing All Over The World
Many airports have their l/h terminals equipped with two bridges but always both on the Port side. This allows maintenance vehicles to service from the Starboard. Occasionally, I have seen F + J board on the front bridge and all others on the second. However, this still means that you are boarding 75% of the a/c one-at-a-time.
For short and medium haul, they should board J last, so that they are not blocking the aisle but J class pax often believe that, if they are on the a/c for an extra ten minutes, they will gain even more value from their ticket price.
For short and medium haul, they should board J last, so that they are not blocking the aisle but J class pax often believe that, if they are on the a/c for an extra ten minutes, they will gain even more value from their ticket price.
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PAXboy
More likely that C class short haul pax know that if they board last, say on an A319, then their overhead bins will be full of luggage from the rear.
One of the drivers for paying C is to take advantage of the 2 pcs of hand luggage allowance, so they wish to get on first and secure their turf, whcih they've paid for several times over.
I saw some proactive measures by BA handling staff in Brussels last week, removing larger (but legit) cases from Y pax and promising that they would be returned at the jetway on arrival (promise was homoured.)
If this was done regularly and the boarding was by row number from the back, it might work well.
More likely that C class short haul pax know that if they board last, say on an A319, then their overhead bins will be full of luggage from the rear.
One of the drivers for paying C is to take advantage of the 2 pcs of hand luggage allowance, so they wish to get on first and secure their turf, whcih they've paid for several times over.
I saw some proactive measures by BA handling staff in Brussels last week, removing larger (but legit) cases from Y pax and promising that they would be returned at the jetway on arrival (promise was homoured.)
If this was done regularly and the boarding was by row number from the back, it might work well.
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Ive been flying with Lufthansa around Europe quite alot recently on their mini-jets, and they have a system whereby if you have a big rolly or dufflebag as hand luggage it gets tagged and put on a trolly at the ramp to go in the hold, then you get it back from similar trolly when you arrive. This seems to work well, as the bins are smaller though never seem full up, but they wont let anyone off the aeroplane until these bags are loaded from the hold onto the trolly and placed infront of the aeroplane at the other end.....
...As far as the dressing/undressing bit is concerned, I have only come across this in the winter when the trek outside to the aeroplane requires a coat, but once in the aeroplane you are hot in a Tshirt & sweater....In which case Im as guilty as the next person, so I dont think there is a cure for this!!
Regards, SD..
...As far as the dressing/undressing bit is concerned, I have only come across this in the winter when the trek outside to the aeroplane requires a coat, but once in the aeroplane you are hot in a Tshirt & sweater....In which case Im as guilty as the next person, so I dont think there is a cure for this!!
Regards, SD..
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Clothes storage
So, where are the winter overclothes supposed to be stowed? Especially in narrowbodies?
The Ilyushin widebodies, BTW, have boarding to the belly, where the passengers can stow part of luggage, and ascend the stairs to main deck. The stairs are blocked in flight, however. Any experiences with those planes?
The Ilyushin widebodies, BTW, have boarding to the belly, where the passengers can stow part of luggage, and ascend the stairs to main deck. The stairs are blocked in flight, however. Any experiences with those planes?
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chornedsnorkack
Thanks for reminding me of the big Ilyushins although I have only flown on the IL86 - you're absolutely right!!! And what a great idea.
You walk out to this large widebody (probably as big as a 763 or so) and climb up integral steps into what we might think of as the hold but done out like a left luggage office.
You put your bags / hold baggage/ hand baggage on a shelf where it is secured for the flight. You then go upstairs to the main cabin where you simply put your hat and coat on the shelf above your seat.
Reverse happens when landing.
On reflection one of the best loading/unloading experiences ever.
Take note Boeing / Airbus
Thanks for reminding me of the big Ilyushins although I have only flown on the IL86 - you're absolutely right!!! And what a great idea.
You walk out to this large widebody (probably as big as a 763 or so) and climb up integral steps into what we might think of as the hold but done out like a left luggage office.
You put your bags / hold baggage/ hand baggage on a shelf where it is secured for the flight. You then go upstairs to the main cabin where you simply put your hat and coat on the shelf above your seat.
Reverse happens when landing.
On reflection one of the best loading/unloading experiences ever.
Take note Boeing / Airbus
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I watched this process at Larnaca the other day - They were parked next door.
Although a lovely idea, I would be interested to know what the fuel penalty is for carrying three (yes 3!!!) sets of airstairs around the world. This on an aircraft that (I'm told) has less than sporty performance.
Does anybody know more about this?
Although a lovely idea, I would be interested to know what the fuel penalty is for carrying three (yes 3!!!) sets of airstairs around the world. This on an aircraft that (I'm told) has less than sporty performance.
Does anybody know more about this?
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Aircraft airstairs are notoriously difficult to maintain, even with only one on the B737. We steered away from them other than on the aircraft used for high north operations.
Today you don't want people milling around on the ramp waiting their turn to climb into a hold to retrieve their bags. Even fully fit individuals. Think about the elderly and disabled to one extent or another.
Today you don't want people milling around on the ramp waiting their turn to climb into a hold to retrieve their bags. Even fully fit individuals. Think about the elderly and disabled to one extent or another.
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Rolling Thunder
I think you've missed the point - probably never had the pleasure of a large Ilyushin.
The system works by people entering and leaving the aircraft at the lower level of the fuselage essentially a lower deck for bags as sometimes found on a ship. The airstairs are therefore quite small.
They then go up some internal stairs to the main cabin deck where there are no scrums to find that precious locker space for oversized hand baggage because the bags are all downstairs.
There are no people milling around the tarmac just happy bunnies heading straight for the terminal building because they already have their bags and won't need to endure the horrors of baggage reclaim.
As I said before great piece of innovation - I know it's fashionable to sneer at anything Russian but they have come up with a few clever ideas too!
I think you've missed the point - probably never had the pleasure of a large Ilyushin.
The system works by people entering and leaving the aircraft at the lower level of the fuselage essentially a lower deck for bags as sometimes found on a ship. The airstairs are therefore quite small.
They then go up some internal stairs to the main cabin deck where there are no scrums to find that precious locker space for oversized hand baggage because the bags are all downstairs.
There are no people milling around the tarmac just happy bunnies heading straight for the terminal building because they already have their bags and won't need to endure the horrors of baggage reclaim.
As I said before great piece of innovation - I know it's fashionable to sneer at anything Russian but they have come up with a few clever ideas too!
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And the less fit pax do what?
When the Russians stop loading livestock in the cabins and having people sitting in lavs or standing for take-offs and landings, I'll have more respect.
When the Russians stop loading livestock in the cabins and having people sitting in lavs or standing for take-offs and landings, I'll have more respect.
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The less fit passengers do what they do anywhere else.
Taking your own bags on board is optional not compulsory.
Have taken 17 internal Russian flights this year and numerous others in previous years - never seen anyone standing up nor seen any livestock.
Anyway you're not interested - closed mind.
Taking your own bags on board is optional not compulsory.
Have taken 17 internal Russian flights this year and numerous others in previous years - never seen anyone standing up nor seen any livestock.
Anyway you're not interested - closed mind.
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Once upon a time I lead a course in "Closed Minds".
Happy if Russian flights have grown into the 20th century....finally.
But, I would hike out rather than fly any of them...closed or open minded....still.
Happy if Russian flights have grown into the 20th century....finally.
But, I would hike out rather than fly any of them...closed or open minded....still.
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Business storage
Hm. How do you ensure people do not put their luggage into the Business bins?
If the overhead bins are not assigned to specific rows underneath?
If the Business class is boarded last, how do you force the Coach people to walk through without stopping and putting items overhead?
(Of course, if the Business has longer pitch and wider seats, there might be opportunities for additional lower-level storage that might be accessible without standing up - even during takeoff/landing)
If the Business travellers could be ensured storage space even when boarding last, they could enjoy their lounges - and perhaps even the privilege of arriving last and having shorter minimum allowance for checkin and security.
Of course, a problem with the large Ilyushins is that the lower-level stowage is not accessible in-flight - which the overhead bins are (at least in cruise). Some other planes I think have wardrobes in one end of cabin.
If the overhead bins are not assigned to specific rows underneath?
If the Business class is boarded last, how do you force the Coach people to walk through without stopping and putting items overhead?
(Of course, if the Business has longer pitch and wider seats, there might be opportunities for additional lower-level storage that might be accessible without standing up - even during takeoff/landing)
If the Business travellers could be ensured storage space even when boarding last, they could enjoy their lounges - and perhaps even the privilege of arriving last and having shorter minimum allowance for checkin and security.
Of course, a problem with the large Ilyushins is that the lower-level stowage is not accessible in-flight - which the overhead bins are (at least in cruise). Some other planes I think have wardrobes in one end of cabin.