The self loading process
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: About 3000 below Midhurst SID I reckon
Posts: 691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rolling Thunder
I have to admit I also have unfond memories of internal ruski flights.
Right hand forward doors sealed shut to enable more baggage to be stacked in the galley/ door areas, unsecured. Announcements at the end of flights saying how pleased they are to advise us that by the end of the year, most aircraft will be fitted with oxygen masks, sitting down to find that both yourself and colleague have no seatbelt.
Problem is, taking the train internally is labourious, a security risk and filthy, so flying was the preferred option.
I have to admit I also have unfond memories of internal ruski flights.
Right hand forward doors sealed shut to enable more baggage to be stacked in the galley/ door areas, unsecured. Announcements at the end of flights saying how pleased they are to advise us that by the end of the year, most aircraft will be fitted with oxygen masks, sitting down to find that both yourself and colleague have no seatbelt.
Problem is, taking the train internally is labourious, a security risk and filthy, so flying was the preferred option.
How do you stop economy pax stuffing the business class bins?
By closing them prior to boarding and stopping non-business class passengers from opening them. (In exactly the same way as you stop economy pax from invading the business class loos...)
And as for boarding efficiency.
Studies have shown that boarding by row numbers, rear sections first is about as efficient as boarding individually by name.
The Lufthansa/Swiss concept of zones (window, middle, aisle) is a good one, but frequently falls over because the boarding staff don't enforce it or because the boarding announcement is duff.
By closing them prior to boarding and stopping non-business class passengers from opening them. (In exactly the same way as you stop economy pax from invading the business class loos...)
And as for boarding efficiency.
Studies have shown that boarding by row numbers, rear sections first is about as efficient as boarding individually by name.
The Lufthansa/Swiss concept of zones (window, middle, aisle) is a good one, but frequently falls over because the boarding staff don't enforce it or because the boarding announcement is duff.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Estonia
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blocking...
By closing them prior to boarding and stopping non-business class passengers from opening them. (In exactly the same way as you stop economy pax from invading the business class loos...)
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Slightly off topic, but the other clever design I like about ILWs is the 'fresh' air outlet set into the back of the seat in front of you, rather than the 'ceiling' three feet above your head (or in the more 'modern' style, totally absent). This means that:
a) I can actually feel its effects;
b) I can easily adjust it.
Other manufacturers, please copy! (though, I guess it's a bvgger to shift the seat rows
)
a) I can actually feel its effects;
b) I can easily adjust it.
Other manufacturers, please copy! (though, I guess it's a bvgger to shift the seat rows
)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Probably the best conventional method we have now is by loading through an airbridge at the second door. F and C Class pax turn left, the rest turn right.
Alternatively the LCC approach of high numbered seats boarding by the rear steps and low via the front would work better if the passengers were smarter
Alternatively the LCC approach of high numbered seats boarding by the rear steps and low via the front would work better if the passengers were smarter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: somewhere near LTN
Age: 50
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll never forget one EDI despatcher always loading all our pax on via the rear stairs - never had a problem as they then raced to the front where I was stood and took their seats.
Always had a quick turnround there.
cheers
FF
Always had a quick turnround there.
cheers
FF
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So much of it would be a moot point if (a) luggage manufacturers stopped making luggage with wheels and (b) airlines requested narrower overhead bins which would force people to check bags.
I used to carry on my bag all the time, but I got sick of the fight for the overhead. Now I check the damn thing. I find that in the end, there's less stress....besides, I hate lugging the damn thing when I have to change planes enroute from one coast to the other.
I used to carry on my bag all the time, but I got sick of the fight for the overhead. Now I check the damn thing. I find that in the end, there's less stress....besides, I hate lugging the damn thing when I have to change planes enroute from one coast to the other.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Estonia
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Luggage
Obviously, it is pointless to ask the manufacturers to refrain frommaking wheeled luggage... it has so much legitimate purposes.
Airlines, however, might impose a rule forbidding any wheeled luggage in cabin - if it has wheels then, even if it fits the weight and size limits for unwheeled luggage, it has to be checked.
Decreasing the size of overhead bins to force people to check bags would be a poor move. But the airlines might decrease and enforce the cabin luggage weight/size limits, so as to give a better fit to the present luggage bins...
Airlines, however, might impose a rule forbidding any wheeled luggage in cabin - if it has wheels then, even if it fits the weight and size limits for unwheeled luggage, it has to be checked.
Decreasing the size of overhead bins to force people to check bags would be a poor move. But the airlines might decrease and enforce the cabin luggage weight/size limits, so as to give a better fit to the present luggage bins...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So much of it would be a moot point if (a) luggage manufacturers stopped making luggage with wheels and (b) airlines requested narrower overhead bins which would force people to check bags.
Errrr.... No....
This discussion would be a Mute point if airlines could guarrentee your checked luggage would arrive the other end when you do, and undamaged and not tampered with....
Regards, SD..
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Errrr...no...
IMHO, it would be a moot point if PAX stopped bringing bags the size (and weight) of a small child on board the aircraft. As well as a large handbag. And laptop. And bag of duty free. And expect all of them to go in the bin directly overhead.
As well as the undamaged, on time thing.
IMHO, it would be a moot point if PAX stopped bringing bags the size (and weight) of a small child on board the aircraft. As well as a large handbag. And laptop. And bag of duty free. And expect all of them to go in the bin directly overhead.
As well as the undamaged, on time thing.
Last edited by CWL2YOW; 3rd Nov 2005 at 18:50.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh and the dramas if the bag isnt "directly above" the passenger!
1 row behind them and its like I tried to kidnap their first born - wake up - all the overheads go to the same airport!
1 row behind them and its like I tried to kidnap their first born - wake up - all the overheads go to the same airport!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One scary thing about the overhead luggage issue is weight.
When tested, the bins have only to withstand a static weight limit.
In the event of a crash or CAT, the dynamic loads will most likey break the bins and that handy little stroller bag that carries your 2 days of clothing will fly out and cause someone a bad headache.
As for loading pax., boarding by seat row number works reasonably well, but the time people spend faffing about before taking their seat infuriates me. It's the same as people who only empty their pockets and take off their coats when they get to the x-ray machine, or people who board a bus, then look for the correct fare. If you know what's coming, at least make an effort to plan ahead.
After working as a dispatcher over the Summer period, I think I have even less respect for the travelling public than I did before. Either there are more morons out there than ever before, or they all chose to travel from GLA this Summer!
When tested, the bins have only to withstand a static weight limit.
In the event of a crash or CAT, the dynamic loads will most likey break the bins and that handy little stroller bag that carries your 2 days of clothing will fly out and cause someone a bad headache.
As for loading pax., boarding by seat row number works reasonably well, but the time people spend faffing about before taking their seat infuriates me. It's the same as people who only empty their pockets and take off their coats when they get to the x-ray machine, or people who board a bus, then look for the correct fare. If you know what's coming, at least make an effort to plan ahead.
After working as a dispatcher over the Summer period, I think I have even less respect for the travelling public than I did before. Either there are more morons out there than ever before, or they all chose to travel from GLA this Summer!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Mid united States
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While I don't travel on business as much as I once did, I always carried a small bag with two days clothing and my laptop (seperately). What always got my goat was walking into my row noticing that there was no one within three rows of me, but the overhead already being full of baggage from pax in the back... I would always place my laptop under the seat, and ram my bag into the other baggage above me. I always hoped there'd be something fragile in there 
When I finally grew up, I started to simply remove the offending bag and place it in the aisle. One quick announcement from the CC and the jerk in the back would have to go claim his belongings...
Air-Geko
When I finally grew up, I started to simply remove the offending bag and place it in the aisle. One quick announcement from the CC and the jerk in the back would have to go claim his belongings...Air-Geko
Paxing All Over The World
But the airlines might decrease and enforce the cabin luggage weight/size limits, so as to give a better fit to the present luggage bins...
When tested, the bins have only to withstand a static weight limit.
It would be a neat idea to make the bins smaller but we have seen the manufacturers make the bins larger and stronger in recent years and the only reason can be because the carriers asked them to.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Estonia
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As we have discussed in this forum before: That ain't gonna happen no time soon. I consider that, if one carrier did enforce the rules, many pax would abandon that carrier. They see the carry on as a 'free' and expectected part of the ticket price'. Other carriers would benefit and see that they ought not to follow. If it were possible for ALL carriers to enforce ALL the rules ALL the time ... well we would see Capt Danny's Pig overtake him in the cruise!!
Paxing All Over The World
That is VERY encouraging news Chorned. Perhaps they are thinking of the fuel costs of shipping all the extra weight of the bags.
Ryan Air changed the peice weight to get extra money but the end result will, hopefully, be the same. That is, the delays caused by loading/unloading the bins and a reduction of weight in the bins with a concomitant reduction of danger to pax sitting under them.
Ryan Air changed the peice weight to get extra money but the end result will, hopefully, be the same. That is, the delays caused by loading/unloading the bins and a reduction of weight in the bins with a concomitant reduction of danger to pax sitting under them.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This discussion would be a Mute point if airlines could guarrentee your checked luggage would arrive the other end when you do, and undamaged and not tampered with....
Seems like recently, I find myslef helping out to make room in the overhead for someone who has rushed on late with too much unchecked baggage, mostly out of frustration and desire to get home. [why do people act so helpless and throw a fit when there's no space??] Last night I told a young woman who asked for help in putting her bag up, "if you can't lift it into the bin, you probably should check it."
one guess as to how that comment was received.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In my own little world
Posts: 776
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With regards to boarding wide bodies with 2 jetbridges, at the worlds worst international airport, most of the forward bridges were installed back in the 70's and as they can only move forwards/backwards, up and down they are no longer compatible with todays modern wide bodied a/c as they do not line up with the L1 door. They are only any use on a 747, L10-11 and Dc-10 - the latter two are very rarely seen there now.
There are several stands that have 2 fully drivable/adjustable bridges but the way these were designed on the inside of the building (even those that were only installed 2 years ago) means that you need to have an extra member of staff who is basically useless in the boarding process (as they cannot do anything else) to just stand and direct passengers down the correct bridge. If left to their own devices all the passengers will just wander down the first bridge they come to which defeats the purpose of having it on !!.
Also an extra security guard is required to man the extra jetbridge when it is attatched to the a/c which = more cost to the airline.
If the BAA actually involved the AIRLINES in the design of their shopping malls then these problems could be designed out but the airlines are only an inconvenience to the BAA.
There are several stands that have 2 fully drivable/adjustable bridges but the way these were designed on the inside of the building (even those that were only installed 2 years ago) means that you need to have an extra member of staff who is basically useless in the boarding process (as they cannot do anything else) to just stand and direct passengers down the correct bridge. If left to their own devices all the passengers will just wander down the first bridge they come to which defeats the purpose of having it on !!.
Also an extra security guard is required to man the extra jetbridge when it is attatched to the a/c which = more cost to the airline.
If the BAA actually involved the AIRLINES in the design of their shopping malls then these problems could be designed out but the airlines are only an inconvenience to the BAA.
Middle seat, you've been lucky.
Over the last 25 years, my experience:
United/United Express. 13 flights, 11 lost bags. Mostly United Express, probably weight problems.
American: consistent loss every 36 flights. In one case, for 13 weeks!
BA: once, and that was on a tight connection at CDG and I travel BA enough to have had a Gold Card for the last three years.
America West: once in 28 flights - and it turned up with a wheel wrenched off where the stub axle had been broken. A stub axle of 1/2 inch diameter steel...........
Over the last 25 years, my experience:
United/United Express. 13 flights, 11 lost bags. Mostly United Express, probably weight problems.
American: consistent loss every 36 flights. In one case, for 13 weeks!
BA: once, and that was on a tight connection at CDG and I travel BA enough to have had a Gold Card for the last three years.
America West: once in 28 flights - and it turned up with a wheel wrenched off where the stub axle had been broken. A stub axle of 1/2 inch diameter steel...........