dissatisfied customer
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dissatisfied customer
Sorry if this is a bit of a rant, but my family and I have just returned from a holiday in Thailand and Malaysia which was wonderful except for the flights.
Last year, going to KL, we flew Emirates and were very impressed with the airline and the service.
This year, we chose Gulf Air on the basis of a recommendation and the fact that (unlike with Emirates, for reasons to do with alliances maybe) we could include in our tickets the stretch Luxembourg-Frankfurt (Luxembourg being where we live).
1.
With Emirates we could look up the seating configuration on their website and request our seats accordingly.
With Gulf Air, this was not possible and so, on a nightflight, we found ourselves next to the bassinets with howling babies. Nothing against babies per se, but we had our last one 14 years ago. In addition, there was a constant whining sound from one of the doors which we were told was pressure equalisation and when we asked how long this noise was likely to continue told "for the entire flight", which it more-or-less did.
2.
The stretch Bahrein-Bangkok was an older A-340, with uncomfortable seats, non-working audio controls and evidence of much wear and tear. We were told by a frequent flyer that this is normal, because east of Europe the inspections are much more lax.
There were only 3 stewardesses to look after 270 tourist class pax. After the meals and drinks were finally served, no cabin crew were to be seen. People needed to use the toilets and so started taking their trays and rubbish and dumping them on the floor of the mid-aircraft galley. Ultimately there was orange juice running across the floor, cups, bottles and rubbish and basically the plane resembled a flying trashcan.
3.
The above mess contrasted (OK I know shorthaul is different) rather badly with local flights using Air Asia, which were impeccable - clean, on time and superb service. It seems to me that if the majors are to fend off the competition from the cheap airlines all they have to offer is superior comfort and service.
4.
On our return from Bangkok, the Gulf Air flight was delayed for technical reasons (waiting for a spare part was mentioned) 2 hours, then 4 then 6 and finally after waiting 12 hours the plane arrived at midnight, where, because the crew had run out of flying hours, the flight was cancelled.
The near riotous pax were directed to the airport hotel by excellent Thai staff, who had to put up with someone's incompetence. Obviously the rosterers knew that the crew would be out of flying hours for ages before the plane arrived.
5.
The following day we were offered the midday flight Bangkok- Bahrein. Our original schedule had been Bangkok-Abu Dhabi, whence short flight to Muscat, two nights at the Al Sawadi beach resort, then Muscat-Frankfurt. The stay in Muscat went out of the window and we flew to Bahrein. After a 9 hour wait (they did put us in a hotel) we flew Bahrein-Frankfurt (much newer, cleaner A340).
6.
As a result of all this, we arrived in that nightmare of an airport which is Frankfurt at 0820 on Sunday 14th rather than, as planned, Monday 15th. Hoping that we would find 4 spare seats on the 0920 Luxair flight to Luxembourg we dashed across the airport to the gate only to be told that, whether there were seats or not and despite the fact that the change was not our fault, we would have to pay Euros 100 per person to change the date of our short flight to Luxembourg!
We ended up negotiating a taxi ride from Frankfurt to our home in Luxembourg for Euros 260.
In my view, if the majors don't improve their act, they can only lose out to the cheap airlines such as Ryanair/Air Asia etc.
I have already decided not to fly Luxair again and also not to patronise BA after I heard that some of their planes were leaving Heathrow with Business and First Class empty, leaving behind tourist class passengers who had been stranded at Heathrow for days. I wasn't affected, but on principle I will not fly with an airline which does this to people.
Finally a question. On a number of our flights, we noted that Business Class was completely empty. Would it not make sense for airlines to auction off Business Class seats a week before the flight via their website or maybe through Last-Minute.com or similar. If they did this via the Dutch auction method (starting high and going down as the flight time approaches) tourist class passengers might well bite and even if they end up paying only 50% or 20% more than the tourist class ticket, that's 20 or 50 % more for the airline anjd maybe more if the released tourist class seats are taken by stand-by pax. Someone told me this might not be feasible for reasons of Business Class food and drink stocks - but why not offer just the seats with tourist class service?
By the way, which total pillock was responsible for designing the Skyway train which links Frankfurt terminal 1 and 2? After loading 8 pieces of baggage onto a trolley and looking for the lift to the Skytrain (since escalators can't handle trolleys), we arrive at the train to be told that you can't take trolleys on the train! All baggage had to be unloaded and then reloaded again onto a trolley at Terminal 2. Everyone complains about it.
Air-rage and bad behaviour by pax is never excusable, but I think that it is sometimes understandable!
Last year, going to KL, we flew Emirates and were very impressed with the airline and the service.
This year, we chose Gulf Air on the basis of a recommendation and the fact that (unlike with Emirates, for reasons to do with alliances maybe) we could include in our tickets the stretch Luxembourg-Frankfurt (Luxembourg being where we live).
1.
With Emirates we could look up the seating configuration on their website and request our seats accordingly.
With Gulf Air, this was not possible and so, on a nightflight, we found ourselves next to the bassinets with howling babies. Nothing against babies per se, but we had our last one 14 years ago. In addition, there was a constant whining sound from one of the doors which we were told was pressure equalisation and when we asked how long this noise was likely to continue told "for the entire flight", which it more-or-less did.
2.
The stretch Bahrein-Bangkok was an older A-340, with uncomfortable seats, non-working audio controls and evidence of much wear and tear. We were told by a frequent flyer that this is normal, because east of Europe the inspections are much more lax.
There were only 3 stewardesses to look after 270 tourist class pax. After the meals and drinks were finally served, no cabin crew were to be seen. People needed to use the toilets and so started taking their trays and rubbish and dumping them on the floor of the mid-aircraft galley. Ultimately there was orange juice running across the floor, cups, bottles and rubbish and basically the plane resembled a flying trashcan.
3.
The above mess contrasted (OK I know shorthaul is different) rather badly with local flights using Air Asia, which were impeccable - clean, on time and superb service. It seems to me that if the majors are to fend off the competition from the cheap airlines all they have to offer is superior comfort and service.
4.
On our return from Bangkok, the Gulf Air flight was delayed for technical reasons (waiting for a spare part was mentioned) 2 hours, then 4 then 6 and finally after waiting 12 hours the plane arrived at midnight, where, because the crew had run out of flying hours, the flight was cancelled.
The near riotous pax were directed to the airport hotel by excellent Thai staff, who had to put up with someone's incompetence. Obviously the rosterers knew that the crew would be out of flying hours for ages before the plane arrived.
5.
The following day we were offered the midday flight Bangkok- Bahrein. Our original schedule had been Bangkok-Abu Dhabi, whence short flight to Muscat, two nights at the Al Sawadi beach resort, then Muscat-Frankfurt. The stay in Muscat went out of the window and we flew to Bahrein. After a 9 hour wait (they did put us in a hotel) we flew Bahrein-Frankfurt (much newer, cleaner A340).
6.
As a result of all this, we arrived in that nightmare of an airport which is Frankfurt at 0820 on Sunday 14th rather than, as planned, Monday 15th. Hoping that we would find 4 spare seats on the 0920 Luxair flight to Luxembourg we dashed across the airport to the gate only to be told that, whether there were seats or not and despite the fact that the change was not our fault, we would have to pay Euros 100 per person to change the date of our short flight to Luxembourg!
We ended up negotiating a taxi ride from Frankfurt to our home in Luxembourg for Euros 260.
In my view, if the majors don't improve their act, they can only lose out to the cheap airlines such as Ryanair/Air Asia etc.
I have already decided not to fly Luxair again and also not to patronise BA after I heard that some of their planes were leaving Heathrow with Business and First Class empty, leaving behind tourist class passengers who had been stranded at Heathrow for days. I wasn't affected, but on principle I will not fly with an airline which does this to people.
Finally a question. On a number of our flights, we noted that Business Class was completely empty. Would it not make sense for airlines to auction off Business Class seats a week before the flight via their website or maybe through Last-Minute.com or similar. If they did this via the Dutch auction method (starting high and going down as the flight time approaches) tourist class passengers might well bite and even if they end up paying only 50% or 20% more than the tourist class ticket, that's 20 or 50 % more for the airline anjd maybe more if the released tourist class seats are taken by stand-by pax. Someone told me this might not be feasible for reasons of Business Class food and drink stocks - but why not offer just the seats with tourist class service?
By the way, which total pillock was responsible for designing the Skyway train which links Frankfurt terminal 1 and 2? After loading 8 pieces of baggage onto a trolley and looking for the lift to the Skytrain (since escalators can't handle trolleys), we arrive at the train to be told that you can't take trolleys on the train! All baggage had to be unloaded and then reloaded again onto a trolley at Terminal 2. Everyone complains about it.
Air-rage and bad behaviour by pax is never excusable, but I think that it is sometimes understandable!
LUXury is a 13,000 ft runway
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Finally a question. On a number of our flights, we noted that Business Class was completely empty. Would it not make sense for airlines to auction off Business Class seats a week before the flight via their website or maybe through Last-Minute.com or similar. If they did this via the Dutch auction method (starting high and going down as the flight time approaches) tourist class passengers might well bite and even if they end up paying only 50% or 20% more than the tourist class ticket, that's 20 or 50 % more for the airline anjd maybe more if the released tourist class seats are taken by stand-by pax. Someone told me this might not be feasible for reasons of Business Class food and drink stocks - but why not offer just the seats with tourist class service?
2. It also has a little bit to do with trying not to give PAX the impression that the front cabin was "for sale" in any way. PAX might otherwise have some interesting ideas. A premium product will only be able to command premium prices if it as seen as being something exclusive by potential buyers, even if that is not really true. (Stella's "Reassuringly expensive" slogan rings a bell?)
3. Skytrain: It beats me why anyone would have to take 8 pieces of hold luggage on Skytrain (and incidentally, all escalators at FRA do carry luggage carts, except those going up to Skytrain). Were you ariside or landside? BTW Luggage carts on trains are not allowed under German federal law for safety reasons or so I'm being told. Bikes and pushcarts (and wheelchairs) require special compartments.
4. FRA - LUX: The rule is that if you by a ticket that's not a flexible ticket, you cannot change it (at least not fro free) unless it's the airline's fault you didn't take the flight you are booked on. Most discounted tickets on LH or BA don't even come with a "change for a fee" option. When you were "offered" that route change by GF, why did you choose to accept it as-is (or were you politely but firmly told to take that flight, in which case GF takes all the blame)? Did GF not provide you with new flight coupons all the way to LUX? If not, I think your ire should be directed at GF, not at Luxair or FRA.
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I am no fan of BA but I suggest you check your facts.
BA has upgraded passengers from economy to business to get them home.
The only flights with empty seats in business or first evidently are on routes where there isnt any backlog. You are guilty of believing bad reporting I think.
BA has upgraded passengers from economy to business to get them home.
The only flights with empty seats in business or first evidently are on routes where there isnt any backlog. You are guilty of believing bad reporting I think.
LUXury is a 13,000 ft runway
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Anyway, if you're no longer flying LG, BA, or LH, and live in Luxembourg, that pretty much limits your options to flying Ryanair from HHN - now theirs of course is a class operation 
OK, there's also VLM. But only to LCY.
OK, there's also VLM. But only to LCY.
.................................................
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Hmm
If I boycotted an airline after a flub up, I'd be boycotting just about everyone that serves my home airport. Doesn't seem to make sense. There are two airlines I do go out of my way to avoid, but its based on a series of bad experiences and annoyances.
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A bit of a rant
Thanks for the comments.
Re. BA, if they were in fact taking stranded pax in Business and First then I am guilty of believing false reports and mea culpa. For other reasons I'm still no fan of BA, but apologies to them for false accusation.
I'm not convinced re. Business Class. The old class distinctions in my view are going to have to be modified, if necessary, as is already happening, by creating intermediate classes between cattle class and some degree of comfort.
German federal rules may well stipulate no trolleys on the Skytrain - question is why? They have brakes. The policy was described to me as idiotic by the official responsible for compliance with it. He, poor sod, gets it in the neck from Pax every day. We were airside and no, the escalators do not take trolleys, but even my local DIY supermarket has a moving ramp up which you can take trolleys. I repeat, which steaming pillock designed that airport?
I have travelled with Ryanair ex-Hahn and ex-Charloi many times and, perhaps I'm lucky, never had a bad flight, a late flight or a dirty flight. As far as I'm concerned, more power to MOL's elbow.
Regarding responsibility. The lawyer at the Luxembourg Consumer Union told me I should claim from the travel agency which issued the ticket. It seems to me that Gulf Air is to blame for their cock-up. We were told that there was no possibility of flying to Abu Dhabi in time to get to Muscat for our stopover there (I had to be back by 15th latest), so accepted the flight BKK/ Bahrein, Bahrein-Frankfurt in order to get back.
You trot out the usual excuse about... "airline policy re change of date of ticket is...etc." Again, why?
What possible justification can there be to charge Euro 100 per person to take spare seats on a stretch for which they have already bought tickets, just because, through no fault of their own, they arrive a day early?
If there had been no free seats, that's a different matter of course.
Fact is, if you are paying a total of over Euros4000, (OK for taxpayer/consumer subsidised corporate fat cats that's nothing) normal people expect better service than we got. If I pay Euros15 for a Ryanair flight, I would be prepared to accept an occasional problem or hitch, or even poor service. I've never had any with Ryanair or with Air Asia.
I will complain to the Chief Exec. of Luxair (which is in trouble anyway, and I'm not surprised), to Gulf Air and to the travel agency.
It's a great pity what is happening to the majors, but perhaps they have been too complacent for too long and need a damn good shake-up.
Re. BA, if they were in fact taking stranded pax in Business and First then I am guilty of believing false reports and mea culpa. For other reasons I'm still no fan of BA, but apologies to them for false accusation.
I'm not convinced re. Business Class. The old class distinctions in my view are going to have to be modified, if necessary, as is already happening, by creating intermediate classes between cattle class and some degree of comfort.
German federal rules may well stipulate no trolleys on the Skytrain - question is why? They have brakes. The policy was described to me as idiotic by the official responsible for compliance with it. He, poor sod, gets it in the neck from Pax every day. We were airside and no, the escalators do not take trolleys, but even my local DIY supermarket has a moving ramp up which you can take trolleys. I repeat, which steaming pillock designed that airport?
I have travelled with Ryanair ex-Hahn and ex-Charloi many times and, perhaps I'm lucky, never had a bad flight, a late flight or a dirty flight. As far as I'm concerned, more power to MOL's elbow.
Regarding responsibility. The lawyer at the Luxembourg Consumer Union told me I should claim from the travel agency which issued the ticket. It seems to me that Gulf Air is to blame for their cock-up. We were told that there was no possibility of flying to Abu Dhabi in time to get to Muscat for our stopover there (I had to be back by 15th latest), so accepted the flight BKK/ Bahrein, Bahrein-Frankfurt in order to get back.
You trot out the usual excuse about... "airline policy re change of date of ticket is...etc." Again, why?
What possible justification can there be to charge Euro 100 per person to take spare seats on a stretch for which they have already bought tickets, just because, through no fault of their own, they arrive a day early?
If there had been no free seats, that's a different matter of course.
Fact is, if you are paying a total of over Euros4000, (OK for taxpayer/consumer subsidised corporate fat cats that's nothing) normal people expect better service than we got. If I pay Euros15 for a Ryanair flight, I would be prepared to accept an occasional problem or hitch, or even poor service. I've never had any with Ryanair or with Air Asia.
I will complain to the Chief Exec. of Luxair (which is in trouble anyway, and I'm not surprised), to Gulf Air and to the travel agency.
It's a great pity what is happening to the majors, but perhaps they have been too complacent for too long and need a damn good shake-up.
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Frankfurt Airport
I repeat, which steaming pillock designed that airport?
Dear daedalus, this airport wasn't really designed, it just grew over the last 69 years. It wasn't possible to build a complete new terminal capable of the whole traffic in the late 80s, because of the US Air Base situated in the south. In the eastern direction it could not grow farther because of the Autobahn, and in the other directions there's a lot of forest which is protected. In the beginning of the 80s they had a terrible struggle over years just to build RW 18.
In some years some of these problems will be solved with the new Terminal 3 (will be build where the Air Base was located), but again sometimes you have to shuttle between the new and the old terminals.
Regards
hanx
Dear daedalus, this airport wasn't really designed, it just grew over the last 69 years. It wasn't possible to build a complete new terminal capable of the whole traffic in the late 80s, because of the US Air Base situated in the south. In the eastern direction it could not grow farther because of the Autobahn, and in the other directions there's a lot of forest which is protected. In the beginning of the 80s they had a terrible struggle over years just to build RW 18.
In some years some of these problems will be solved with the new Terminal 3 (will be build where the Air Base was located), but again sometimes you have to shuttle between the new and the old terminals.
Regards
hanx
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You trot out the usual excuse about... "airline policy re change of date of ticket is...etc." Again, why?
Sorry, but if you don't like the fare rules on your ticket you've two choices, buy a more expensive ticket which allows you flexability or buy your ticket on the day you travel at the airport. Which is going to cost you more anyway.
Basically if you don't like it then you'll have to go to IATA and ask them to change the rules for the worlds airlines.
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Deadalus said
Im sorry mate but in fairness, no matter where you sit you run the risk of sitting beside a child. In my experience babies are quieter than 2 to 3 year olds who occupy seats and can sit wherever they like.
As for your stupid remark about BA. They certainly dont leave PAX stranded for the sake of giving pax in club or First more room. They do however overbook just like EVERY other airline out there!
And what do you mean by this? Sounds almost communist! Its simple, you want to buy a cheap seat you buy an economy one. If you want a nice seat with a cheap service, you buy premium economy, you want a nice sit and service you buy business class and if you really want to treat yourself...you buy First! Theres no need for a shakeup....if you really dislike BA for some word of mouth reason then you are missing out as you are with others in the region!!!
we found ourselves next to the bassinets with howling babies.
As for your stupid remark about BA. They certainly dont leave PAX stranded for the sake of giving pax in club or First more room. They do however overbook just like EVERY other airline out there!
I'm not convinced re. Business Class. The old class distinctions in my view are going to have to be modified, if necessary, as is already happening, by creating intermediate classes between cattle class and some degree of comfort.
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Daedelus
Firstly, I am sorry to hear of your experience, it must have been very stressful and frustrating for you all.
With regard to why airlines do not sell discounted business class seats, well they do in a way. If you scout the internet, you will find consolidators who buy blocks of J class seats and sell them at lower prices.
But most airlines protect their premium passengers. Put yourself in the position of someone who has paid (whose company has paid) for a J class ticket on a long haul flight. How would you feel if the airline upgraded someone next to you and you found out about it? I know that I would be annoyed, since I would consider it to be unfair.
Sometimes it does happen, I got bumped up from W (premium economy) to J (Club) on a BA day flight from Boston, where I didn't consider the hefty premium for a flat bed worthwhile (even though my client was paying.) I was sitting next to a very nice American guy, who had paid J fare out of his own pocket to go on holiday. Out of consideration for his feelings, I did not let him know that my seat cost sveral times less than his. The flight was overbooked in M and BA shoved some people up a class, so some lucky person probably got F out of the situation.
The reality is that many large corporates have bulk deals with airlines, so they will be paying relatively low prices for J class seats, but the principle is the same, their purchasing people don't expect to pay more than tourists or even the same.
Airlines manage the yields of flights carefully, from BA to Ryanair and they have sophisticated software that balances load with profit.
Now as to your comment about LG on the short connection to Lux, I tend to understand your feelings. In my opinion, Ryanair have changed the short haul market beyond recognition and their facility to change all bookings (for a fee) is very clever, since it allows the passenger to retain the original cost of the fare (and not feel ripped off), whilst paying some more money to the airline for the change. I think that is called a win-win outcome. The traditional airlines have not woken up to this opportunity as yet and Ryanair (and easyJet) have won differentiation.
It sounds to me that LG missed an opportunity to win a friend by having rules in place that were probably devised before Ryanair existed. I imagine that the travel agent issued you with two tickets, one shorthaul return and one long haul return, so LG were not responsible for your late arrival and their staff in FRA (LH staff?) followed the rules. I have sympathy for them, since they probably had no discretion.
However, they won't get their share of your wallet in the future, so what did they really achieve? Having used LG a few times this year, I find their service unusual, there is little difference between C and Y to justify the price, apart from blocking off of the B and E seats on the 737.
Many people in the industry either don't understand the commercial aspects or have a questionable attitude, such as apaddyintheuk, who likes to consistently slag off the people who pay his/her wages.
At the moment, its boom time for air travel. However, the industry is highly cyclical and dependent on the global economy. The next downturn will provide Darwinian enlightenment for a number of airlines. There is also the spectre of EU legislators, who don't like the ecological aspects of air travel .... watch this space.
Some airlines will learn that you cannot manage yield without managing revenue and managing revenue means attracting a sufficient number of pax in the first place.
As a footnote, your comments remind me of Juran\'s definition of quality.
There is quality (things are as they should be) and there is grade of quality (how many features or functions.)
You experiences show that providing a cheap, poor experience (low quality) is not the same as providing a cheap, good experience (low grade of quality.)
Ryanair do the latter well, there are few features, but the aircraft are clean and the service generally works. That\'s all most short haul travellers really want and the pax number trends show it.
Firstly, I am sorry to hear of your experience, it must have been very stressful and frustrating for you all.
With regard to why airlines do not sell discounted business class seats, well they do in a way. If you scout the internet, you will find consolidators who buy blocks of J class seats and sell them at lower prices.
But most airlines protect their premium passengers. Put yourself in the position of someone who has paid (whose company has paid) for a J class ticket on a long haul flight. How would you feel if the airline upgraded someone next to you and you found out about it? I know that I would be annoyed, since I would consider it to be unfair.
Sometimes it does happen, I got bumped up from W (premium economy) to J (Club) on a BA day flight from Boston, where I didn't consider the hefty premium for a flat bed worthwhile (even though my client was paying.) I was sitting next to a very nice American guy, who had paid J fare out of his own pocket to go on holiday. Out of consideration for his feelings, I did not let him know that my seat cost sveral times less than his. The flight was overbooked in M and BA shoved some people up a class, so some lucky person probably got F out of the situation.
The reality is that many large corporates have bulk deals with airlines, so they will be paying relatively low prices for J class seats, but the principle is the same, their purchasing people don't expect to pay more than tourists or even the same.
Airlines manage the yields of flights carefully, from BA to Ryanair and they have sophisticated software that balances load with profit.
Now as to your comment about LG on the short connection to Lux, I tend to understand your feelings. In my opinion, Ryanair have changed the short haul market beyond recognition and their facility to change all bookings (for a fee) is very clever, since it allows the passenger to retain the original cost of the fare (and not feel ripped off), whilst paying some more money to the airline for the change. I think that is called a win-win outcome. The traditional airlines have not woken up to this opportunity as yet and Ryanair (and easyJet) have won differentiation.
It sounds to me that LG missed an opportunity to win a friend by having rules in place that were probably devised before Ryanair existed. I imagine that the travel agent issued you with two tickets, one shorthaul return and one long haul return, so LG were not responsible for your late arrival and their staff in FRA (LH staff?) followed the rules. I have sympathy for them, since they probably had no discretion.
However, they won't get their share of your wallet in the future, so what did they really achieve? Having used LG a few times this year, I find their service unusual, there is little difference between C and Y to justify the price, apart from blocking off of the B and E seats on the 737.
Many people in the industry either don't understand the commercial aspects or have a questionable attitude, such as apaddyintheuk, who likes to consistently slag off the people who pay his/her wages.
At the moment, its boom time for air travel. However, the industry is highly cyclical and dependent on the global economy. The next downturn will provide Darwinian enlightenment for a number of airlines. There is also the spectre of EU legislators, who don't like the ecological aspects of air travel .... watch this space.
Some airlines will learn that you cannot manage yield without managing revenue and managing revenue means attracting a sufficient number of pax in the first place.
As a footnote, your comments remind me of Juran\'s definition of quality.
There is quality (things are as they should be) and there is grade of quality (how many features or functions.)
You experiences show that providing a cheap, poor experience (low quality) is not the same as providing a cheap, good experience (low grade of quality.)
Ryanair do the latter well, there are few features, but the aircraft are clean and the service generally works. That\'s all most short haul travellers really want and the pax number trends show it.
The complexities of fare structures can mean (certainly SH in Europe) that the guy in economy has paid more for his ticket than the guy in business. It dpeends on the fare structure used, and the types of tickets.
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LG ex Luxembourg
folks, did you all forget that you are talking about
- an airline that hasn`t mentally changed since it was founded
- have a monopoly in this country
- are dictating everything that goes on at this airport
- are incapable of getting your "PNR" information e.g. to LH in FRA so what you show up in the computer at the gate
- are claiming to be a GSA (incl. Ticketing Agent) for other airlines serving this place (e.g. LX, OS) and are unable to issue a ticket (or at least with major hassle) even though there is a hugh sign quoting this in the terminal next to the ticket counter? (after long discussion you are able to get a "paper-hand-written-ticket in case you do fly LX and did the mistake of "by-passing" LG and book via the LX Website
- are severely over-priced for the value you get
... etc etc...
The only alternative ex this place are
- drive to an airport nearby and "spend the potential money for an LG ticket" on a parking spot (even though taking into consideration that LG does not get much of the ticket price anyway if they are the first leg carrier of a journey that continues beyong the first stop (e.g. FRA) - IATA FCU applies
- Fly someone else if you get a good deal
Solution to this:
more people flying in/out of this place, so that finally the "magic number of pax/annum" are achieved and that the local-home-carrier looses it`s monopoly and has to open up the airport for other carriers/handling agents... time to come
folks, did you all forget that you are talking about
- an airline that hasn`t mentally changed since it was founded
- have a monopoly in this country
- are dictating everything that goes on at this airport
- are incapable of getting your "PNR" information e.g. to LH in FRA so what you show up in the computer at the gate
- are claiming to be a GSA (incl. Ticketing Agent) for other airlines serving this place (e.g. LX, OS) and are unable to issue a ticket (or at least with major hassle) even though there is a hugh sign quoting this in the terminal next to the ticket counter? (after long discussion you are able to get a "paper-hand-written-ticket in case you do fly LX and did the mistake of "by-passing" LG and book via the LX Website
- are severely over-priced for the value you get
... etc etc...
The only alternative ex this place are
- drive to an airport nearby and "spend the potential money for an LG ticket" on a parking spot (even though taking into consideration that LG does not get much of the ticket price anyway if they are the first leg carrier of a journey that continues beyong the first stop (e.g. FRA) - IATA FCU applies
- Fly someone else if you get a good deal
Solution to this:
more people flying in/out of this place, so that finally the "magic number of pax/annum" are achieved and that the local-home-carrier looses it`s monopoly and has to open up the airport for other carriers/handling agents... time to come
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Daedalus said:
then Final 3 Greens said:
I don't think the difference between what Luxair asked for and what Ryanair would ask for in a similar situation is going to be that great a monetary difference.
From Ryanair:
So you're 30 or 40 Euros up front straight away. Whether you then have to make up the fare from what you originally paid then becomes a gamble. But if the flight is busy and you are trying to book on the day of the flight then you could be looking at a significant increase, possibly even taking you up to well over the 100 Euros which Daedalus experienced. Ryanair play this game very well. Whilst I have travelled with them very cheaply on many occasions, there are also many occasions where it has also been cheaper travelling by a mainline carrier. The advice to anyone is to shop around and not assume that Lo Cost is always the lowest cost 
6. As a result of all this, we arrived in that nightmare of an airport which is Frankfurt at 0820 on Sunday 14th rather than, as planned, Monday 15th. Hoping that we would find 4 spare seats on the 0920 Luxair flight to Luxembourg we dashed across the airport to the gate only to be told that, whether there were seats or not and despite the fact that the change was not our fault, we would have to pay Euros 100 per person to change the date of our short flight to Luxembourg!
Now as to your comment about LG on the short connection to Lux, I tend to understand your feelings. In my opinion, Ryanair have changed the short haul market beyond recognition and their facility to change all bookings (for a fee) is very clever, since it allows the passenger to retain the original cost of the fare (and not feel ripped off), whilst paying some more money to the airline for the change. I think that is called a win-win outcome. The traditional airlines have not woken up to this opportunity as yet and Ryanair (and easyJet) have won differentiation.
It sounds to me that LG missed an opportunity to win a friend by having rules in place that were probably devised before Ryanair existed. I imagine that the travel agent issued you with two tickets, one shorthaul return and one long haul return, so LG were not responsible for your late arrival and their staff in FRA (LH staff?) followed the rules. I have sympathy for them, since they probably had no discretion.
It sounds to me that LG missed an opportunity to win a friend by having rules in place that were probably devised before Ryanair existed. I imagine that the travel agent issued you with two tickets, one shorthaul return and one long haul return, so LG were not responsible for your late arrival and their staff in FRA (LH staff?) followed the rules. I have sympathy for them, since they probably had no discretion.
From Ryanair:
Flight dates, times and routes are changeable subject to availability and upon payment of a change fee of £20/€30 (or local currency equivalent) per flight sector per person if made on www.ryanair.com or £27/€40 (or local currency equivalent) per flight sector per person if made through a Ryanair reservation centre, plus in each case any difference in cost between the original total price paid and the lowest total price available at the time the change is made. If the total price is lower on the new flight, no refund will be made. Changes, subject to availability, can be made up to 12 hours prior to the originally scheduled departure time of your outbound journey on www.ryanair.com or up to 3 hours prior to such time through a Ryanair reservation centre (subject to centre opening hours). 'Internet/Web only' fares are not available for any changes made through a reservation centre.
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Ryanair play this game very well
However, they are transparent, as per the info that you posted and the pax know the rules up front.
Whatever anyone may think, O'Leary can quote growth figures that make other airlines weep and customer perception is a powerful driver, regardless of the actualitie.
There is still an element of lag time between the dinosaur's tail being hit and the message being received.
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dissatisfied customer
Thanks for all your comments.
Couple of things have happened. I complained to Luxair customer service department who told me that the attitude of the (Lufthansa) employee at Frankfurt was not correct and that we should have been allowed to board the Luxembourg flight without extra fees if there were free seats. Luxair are going to refund at least the cost of the 4 tickets Frankfurt-Lux, which, if they do it, will be very gentlemanly of them.
I have looked at airline comparison websites and am quite frankly amazed at the slagging-off which Ryanair attracts. I am well aware that Ryanair can be more expensive than other airlines and so choose my flights with great care. If I am paying as little as € 25 for a flight, I am prepared to put up with a lot. I have found the service on Ryanair quite acceptable, although I am not fond of the vivid yellow and blue seats nor of their inflight food slogan "Hungry? - we will fill you up!". Their flogging of train tickets, lottery tickets etc. I find no more objectionable than normal airlines tendency to get the food and drink bit over with asap so as to flog duty free booze, perfume etc.
What really pissed me off was getting much worse service than Ryanair on a flight that cost me €1000. That is unacceptable.
So far, perhaps I have been very lucky with Ryanair and indeed Air Asia, I have never had a bad flight with them.
W.r.t. business class passengers resenting it if others are upgraded or have paid a lot less for their ticket.. why should they - the chances are if they are corporate travellers they didn't pay for their ticket themselves anyway, ultimately taxpayers and consumers did. It is no different to pax sitting on the same charter flight having paid vastly different amounts for the same holiday and that happens all the time!
I have also complained to Gulf Air, but am much less hopeful of getting any kind of response from them.
Will let you know if I do.
Couple of things have happened. I complained to Luxair customer service department who told me that the attitude of the (Lufthansa) employee at Frankfurt was not correct and that we should have been allowed to board the Luxembourg flight without extra fees if there were free seats. Luxair are going to refund at least the cost of the 4 tickets Frankfurt-Lux, which, if they do it, will be very gentlemanly of them.
I have looked at airline comparison websites and am quite frankly amazed at the slagging-off which Ryanair attracts. I am well aware that Ryanair can be more expensive than other airlines and so choose my flights with great care. If I am paying as little as € 25 for a flight, I am prepared to put up with a lot. I have found the service on Ryanair quite acceptable, although I am not fond of the vivid yellow and blue seats nor of their inflight food slogan "Hungry? - we will fill you up!". Their flogging of train tickets, lottery tickets etc. I find no more objectionable than normal airlines tendency to get the food and drink bit over with asap so as to flog duty free booze, perfume etc.
What really pissed me off was getting much worse service than Ryanair on a flight that cost me €1000. That is unacceptable.
So far, perhaps I have been very lucky with Ryanair and indeed Air Asia, I have never had a bad flight with them.
W.r.t. business class passengers resenting it if others are upgraded or have paid a lot less for their ticket.. why should they - the chances are if they are corporate travellers they didn't pay for their ticket themselves anyway, ultimately taxpayers and consumers did. It is no different to pax sitting on the same charter flight having paid vastly different amounts for the same holiday and that happens all the time!
I have also complained to Gulf Air, but am much less hopeful of getting any kind of response from them.
Will let you know if I do.
I echo your sentiments regarding FRA! The cramped lifts and that damn time-tunnel thing are just not worth it when in transit between 1A and 1B! Up 3 floors, queue up to get through the EU immigration gate (from non-Schengen EU countries), then back down to the bowels of the earth, along the time-tunnel, back into another lift and up 3 floors, then an endless trudge to the lounge or gate......
Much easier to go out and come back in again - although that'll mean going through full security again rather than just a cursory passport check.
Another gripe I have is with the inevitable lurching bus rides around the place (and it's no better at MUC!). I hate to imagine how they learned about how many people you can cram into a bus before they pass out through heat exhaustion or asphyxia.
Much easier to go out and come back in again - although that'll mean going through full security again rather than just a cursory passport check.
Another gripe I have is with the inevitable lurching bus rides around the place (and it's no better at MUC!). I hate to imagine how they learned about how many people you can cram into a bus before they pass out through heat exhaustion or asphyxia.
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Funny how you class economy class, when in fact it is "economy class", which from looking up on dictionary.com i found;
The least expensive class of accommodations, especially on an airplane.
Everyone knows if you pay cheap fare you can pretty much expect a cheap service when it comes to airlines. In regards with the trolley comment, are you SURE there was no signs up saying no trolleys and you were just too busy complaining to even look and notice?
Souns to me like you've went in economy class expecting a first class service.
The least expensive class of accommodations, especially on an airplane.
Everyone knows if you pay cheap fare you can pretty much expect a cheap service when it comes to airlines. In regards with the trolley comment, are you SURE there was no signs up saying no trolleys and you were just too busy complaining to even look and notice?
Souns to me like you've went in economy class expecting a first class service.
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In reply to Sam Guest.
Yes, I am sure there were no signs saying no trolleys on the "Skytrain" until you actually get up to the platform. Even there, they are not very prominent, otherwise the poor guy whose entire job seems to be telling people that they can't take trolleys on the train would find something better to do. He also mentioned that it's Federal Regulations which forbid it (I speak fluent German).
W.r.t. "economy", what our tickets actually said was "Tourist class". Perhaps this is even worse on airlines. But no, I'm not complaining about not receiving "First Class" service. Airline First Class is a ridiculous nonsense for millionaires with nothing better to do with their money. Most people would need a mortgage to pay for it.
Business Class is for people who can charge it to others (clients, taxpayers etc) and those with millions of airmiles.
I'm complaining about receiving worse service with a standard airline for € 1000 (not an insignificant amount of money as John Major would say) and getting infinitely poorer service than with Ryanair for €25!
Yes, I am sure there were no signs saying no trolleys on the "Skytrain" until you actually get up to the platform. Even there, they are not very prominent, otherwise the poor guy whose entire job seems to be telling people that they can't take trolleys on the train would find something better to do. He also mentioned that it's Federal Regulations which forbid it (I speak fluent German).
W.r.t. "economy", what our tickets actually said was "Tourist class". Perhaps this is even worse on airlines. But no, I'm not complaining about not receiving "First Class" service. Airline First Class is a ridiculous nonsense for millionaires with nothing better to do with their money. Most people would need a mortgage to pay for it.
Business Class is for people who can charge it to others (clients, taxpayers etc) and those with millions of airmiles.
I'm complaining about receiving worse service with a standard airline for € 1000 (not an insignificant amount of money as John Major would say) and getting infinitely poorer service than with Ryanair for €25!