Flight 358 and PTSD
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Flight 358 and PTSD
http://flight358ptsdisorder.********.com
"If I can get back to Paris with a bicycle, I would go back that way," Poorsattar, who was born in Iran, joked.
Flight 358, Air France, crash lands at Pearson International Airport in August 2005, with 309 people on board, everyone gets out okay, safe. Safe? Well, they all survived, yes, and thank their lucky stars, but one thing the news media has not mentioned in depth is the amount and degree of PTSD's that will emerge: post-traumatic stress disorders.
Many of the passengers and some of the crew will find that they will experience post-traumatic stress disorders of various kinds, panic attacks, nightmares, fear of flying phobias, fear of heights, claustrophobia, etc., following the ordeal they survived. Some will feel that they are living on borrowed time, and they will change the way they live their lives. Some will become more religious, some less religious. Many willl experience PTSD for the rest of their lives, and there will be lawsuits, yes, huge lawsuits, class action suits, for "mental stress" endured in the crash landing and in the aftermath of their escape from the plane...
309 Survived is the correct headline...but another headline might be 209 to Suffer For the Rest of Their Lives....
"If I can get back to Paris with a bicycle, I would go back that way," Poorsattar, who was born in Iran, joked.
Flight 358, Air France, crash lands at Pearson International Airport in August 2005, with 309 people on board, everyone gets out okay, safe. Safe? Well, they all survived, yes, and thank their lucky stars, but one thing the news media has not mentioned in depth is the amount and degree of PTSD's that will emerge: post-traumatic stress disorders.
Many of the passengers and some of the crew will find that they will experience post-traumatic stress disorders of various kinds, panic attacks, nightmares, fear of flying phobias, fear of heights, claustrophobia, etc., following the ordeal they survived. Some will feel that they are living on borrowed time, and they will change the way they live their lives. Some will become more religious, some less religious. Many willl experience PTSD for the rest of their lives, and there will be lawsuits, yes, huge lawsuits, class action suits, for "mental stress" endured in the crash landing and in the aftermath of their escape from the plane...
309 Survived is the correct headline...but another headline might be 209 to Suffer For the Rest of Their Lives....
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Most passengers and crew on that flight will pick themselves up and get on with their lives. But some will not be able to. We should have empathy for them, too. That is also part of the modern world.
"In this case, flight 358 Air France, I think you'll probably not see a lot of post-traumatic stress because it was really quite a miracle," the physician who treated some of the injured told CBC Radio.
Knipping is the head of the emergency room at the Trillium Health Centre in Mississauga and a medical support specialist for the Transportation Safety Board.
Flight 358 passengers likely to escape 'survivor guilt': ER doctor
The fact that no one died in the Air France crash and fire at Pearson airport on Tuesday is likely to reduce the incidence of post-traumatic stress in the 309 people on board, Dr. Randy Knipping said Thursday.
He says survivors of air accidents often suffer from "survivor guilt" and feel quite badly about their lucky escapes. But this incident will likely be different because there were no deaths and few serious injuries.
Real Levasseur, lead investigator for the TSB, described the passenger's injuries as minor at a briefing on Thursday.
"There's nothing serious in injuries. There are a few broken bones and stuff like that."
However, he says investigators are not yet able to talk to the captain.
"The captain is still in the hospital and we don't want to cause any more psychological damage to that individual ¡K we have been assured that he is capable of talking to us," said Levasseur. "The injuries are reportedly to his back. I don't know the extent of those."
"In this case, flight 358 Air France, I think you'll probably not see a lot of post-traumatic stress because it was really quite a miracle," the physician who treated some of the injured told CBC Radio.
Knipping is the head of the emergency room at the Trillium Health Centre in Mississauga and a medical support specialist for the Transportation Safety Board.
Flight 358 passengers likely to escape 'survivor guilt': ER doctor
The fact that no one died in the Air France crash and fire at Pearson airport on Tuesday is likely to reduce the incidence of post-traumatic stress in the 309 people on board, Dr. Randy Knipping said Thursday.
He says survivors of air accidents often suffer from "survivor guilt" and feel quite badly about their lucky escapes. But this incident will likely be different because there were no deaths and few serious injuries.
Real Levasseur, lead investigator for the TSB, described the passenger's injuries as minor at a briefing on Thursday.
"There's nothing serious in injuries. There are a few broken bones and stuff like that."
However, he says investigators are not yet able to talk to the captain.
"The captain is still in the hospital and we don't want to cause any more psychological damage to that individual ¡K we have been assured that he is capable of talking to us," said Levasseur. "The injuries are reportedly to his back. I don't know the extent of those."
Last edited by nervousblogger; 6th Aug 2005 at 04:53.
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You must be a right laugh at dinner parties nervousblogger. You are the only person I've heard since the crash finding a negative to the whole outcome.
You're not a lawyer by any chance are you?
You're not a lawyer by any chance are you?
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CosmosSchwartz, maybe you misunderstood. I am not a lawyer, far from it, and I am not pointing out a negative. I am pointing out a reality, posttraumatic stress disorders, that often impact people's lives after experiencing such an event. That's all. I am trying to help, not hurt. You misunderstood, I think.
Watch this theme play out in the media in future days.
But of course, I am happy they all survived! I am very positive person, despite my userid. Pls bear with me.
Smile
Watch this theme play out in the media in future days.
But of course, I am happy they all survived! I am very positive person, despite my userid. Pls bear with me.
Smile
Paxing All Over The World
Well, it is certainly true that PTSD can trouble people for a long time. My father 's worst experience in the RAF was a crash on departure from which they were rescued just before the Mossie went up. That was 1945 and he had nightmares about it to the very end of his days in 2001. He never complained about it and described every day of his life henceforward as "a bonus".
If they have PTSD, then they can sue Air France. I am sorry to seem harsh but most people find life preferable to death.
If they have PTSD, then they can sue Air France. I am sorry to seem harsh but most people find life preferable to death.
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Quote above: "he wants to get opinions so he can post them on his blog and look informed ."
That is NOT what this is about. As the poster before said about his dad's inicident in 1945 with the RAF crash, these things last a long time. Thanks for that post, sir.
let's try to keep things positive here, please.
That is NOT what this is about. As the poster before said about his dad's inicident in 1945 with the RAF crash, these things last a long time. Thanks for that post, sir.
let's try to keep things positive here, please.
Paxing All Over The World
You are correct that this will play out in the media and some people wili genuinely have PTSD and some will affect to have it, in order to boost their claim for damages.
If you quote the story of my father's experience to justify your position then you MUST also state that he NEVER complained or saw it as anything else than the chance/luck/fate/call it what you will of life. Yes - he was in a war and these folks are not. BUT the story was to illustrate that he considered every day from that prang as a bonus, not a day to seek redress for what happened.
Can you see the 180 degree difference?
If you wonder why you are receiving a strong reply from some of us, it is because you are new to PPRuNe and this forum and we are unsure of your motives.
If you quote the story of my father's experience to justify your position then you MUST also state that he NEVER complained or saw it as anything else than the chance/luck/fate/call it what you will of life. Yes - he was in a war and these folks are not. BUT the story was to illustrate that he considered every day from that prang as a bonus, not a day to seek redress for what happened.
Can you see the 180 degree difference?
If you wonder why you are receiving a strong reply from some of us, it is because you are new to PPRuNe and this forum and we are unsure of your motives.
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Hello PAXboy,
You wrote: "Can you see the 180 degree difference?
If you wonder why you are receiving a strong reply from some of us, it is because you are new to PPRuNe and this forum and we are unsure of your motives."
===========================
REPLY:
YES, I do see the difference, and thanks for explaining about the strong replies and why. I understand better now. SMILE!
Just to explain: my motives are merely to inform the public about PTSD. I was also in a near-fatal plane accident, midair fire, DC3 prop plane, left engine on fire for 20 minutes, in 1983, and I never filed a lawsuit and that was never on my mind. In fact, I was just happy to have survived the incident and to be back on solid ground.
But I did suffer PTSD, slowly, and could never really fly again, although I did a few times. With valium. I still prefer to travel by ground transportation, in now, 20 years or so later, because the memories of that midair fire are still vivid and the memories of the pilot saying "we are about the crash land please put your heads on your knees" still reminds me of what happened. Then. This is now. Yes.
So when i read about the AF crashlanding in Toronto, I knew that some people, not all, maybe just 1 percent, will suffer all their lives.
But yes, the important thing is to be grateful to be alive. I am not a lawyer, have nothing to do with lawyers, I am a PTSD sufferer.
I just hope that those people aboard 358 have long and productive lives from now on, and don't suffer too much from the effects of the PTSD.
money is not what this thread was ever about. I am on the side of life, not money. Money is UNimportant.
You wrote: "Can you see the 180 degree difference?
If you wonder why you are receiving a strong reply from some of us, it is because you are new to PPRuNe and this forum and we are unsure of your motives."
===========================
REPLY:
YES, I do see the difference, and thanks for explaining about the strong replies and why. I understand better now. SMILE!
Just to explain: my motives are merely to inform the public about PTSD. I was also in a near-fatal plane accident, midair fire, DC3 prop plane, left engine on fire for 20 minutes, in 1983, and I never filed a lawsuit and that was never on my mind. In fact, I was just happy to have survived the incident and to be back on solid ground.
But I did suffer PTSD, slowly, and could never really fly again, although I did a few times. With valium. I still prefer to travel by ground transportation, in now, 20 years or so later, because the memories of that midair fire are still vivid and the memories of the pilot saying "we are about the crash land please put your heads on your knees" still reminds me of what happened. Then. This is now. Yes.
So when i read about the AF crashlanding in Toronto, I knew that some people, not all, maybe just 1 percent, will suffer all their lives.
But yes, the important thing is to be grateful to be alive. I am not a lawyer, have nothing to do with lawyers, I am a PTSD sufferer.
I just hope that those people aboard 358 have long and productive lives from now on, and don't suffer too much from the effects of the PTSD.
money is not what this thread was ever about. I am on the side of life, not money. Money is UNimportant.
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Rollingthunder;
Sounds like you have not had the pleasure of experiencing a tactical underwear change.....
These things do have the habit eliciting a "don't want to do that again" response out of most sane beings, however brave, and though the feeling tends to fade, something will trigger it again, and then you must fight hard to suppress it, or stay a long way away from the trigger.
Sounds like you have not had the pleasure of experiencing a tactical underwear change.....
These things do have the habit eliciting a "don't want to do that again" response out of most sane beings, however brave, and though the feeling tends to fade, something will trigger it again, and then you must fight hard to suppress it, or stay a long way away from the trigger.
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Let's just hope that the people aboard 358 and the Palermo flight use the emotions they have have undergone to move forward in a positive way in their lives.
and let's also have sympathy/empathy for those who might suffer PTSD as a result of the accidents, for a long long time.
The media tends NOT to discuss these things, and it is my hope that it will. PTSD is not a fictional excuse people dream up, it is a real emotional response to some deep deep trauma, and it's nothing to be ashamed of.
From John Madden to Isaac Isamov (yes, that famous science fiction writer about space travel was deathly afraid to fly all his adult life....), many people do suffer irrational fears about flying. Of course, the skies are safe. Of course, planes are safe. We all know that.
But people who experience crashes, crashlandings and midair fires or other midflight emergencies CAN and DO sometimes suffer the consequences. Let's support them in their uneasiness and help them deal with these things, and maybe, even, hopefully, overcome them.
It aint easy.
and let's also have sympathy/empathy for those who might suffer PTSD as a result of the accidents, for a long long time.
The media tends NOT to discuss these things, and it is my hope that it will. PTSD is not a fictional excuse people dream up, it is a real emotional response to some deep deep trauma, and it's nothing to be ashamed of.
From John Madden to Isaac Isamov (yes, that famous science fiction writer about space travel was deathly afraid to fly all his adult life....), many people do suffer irrational fears about flying. Of course, the skies are safe. Of course, planes are safe. We all know that.
But people who experience crashes, crashlandings and midair fires or other midflight emergencies CAN and DO sometimes suffer the consequences. Let's support them in their uneasiness and help them deal with these things, and maybe, even, hopefully, overcome them.
It aint easy.
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I recently received a letter from one of the passengers who aboard the AF 358 flight. I have disguised the information to protect the privacy of the person, of course. Read on:
QUOTE:
"I recently visited your blog and am writing to inform you that I also
was on the ill-fated flight 358 from Paris. I am a frequent flyer. Each year I
fly to Toronto to visit family and friends.
When I arrived at Charles de Gaulle airport on the morning of 2
August, I was supposed to fly to Amsterdam, from where I was supposed
to get my connecting flight to Toronto. I was told to my chagrin,
however, that my flight was overbooked and that I'd been placed on
standby. Half-an-hour before the flight and there were still no free
seats, so a helpful AF official put me on a direct flight to Toronto
from Paris - AF 358. Later, while standing in the check-in queue, I
was approached by an AF official who explained that this flight was
also overbooked. She asked if I'd consider staying in Paris an extra
night; AF would put me up in a nearby hotel and give me 150 euros for
my pains. I turned her offer down, since I only had 5 days to spend
with family in Toronto before flying on to Vancouver.
I was seated in the row just behind business class. I escaped from the
crash without even a scratch and realise how lucky I am, but right now
feel uncertain and plagued by vague fears and doubts. I decided to go
ahead with my flight to Vancouver, as I'd promised a friend I'd attend
his wedding.
I was surprised that I endured the flight without any
major incident, but am more than a little concerned about my long-haul
flight back to [nation halfway around the world] in just over a week from now.
I have exchanged email addresses and telephone numbers with several
other passengers on the ill-fated flight and intend to stay in
contact with them."
UNQUOTE
WOW. I just hope all the passengers have long and productive lives and do not suffer from the effects of any lasting trauma. Most of them will not suffer. A few of them might. I hope they will be okay, too.
QUOTE:
"I recently visited your blog and am writing to inform you that I also
was on the ill-fated flight 358 from Paris. I am a frequent flyer. Each year I
fly to Toronto to visit family and friends.
When I arrived at Charles de Gaulle airport on the morning of 2
August, I was supposed to fly to Amsterdam, from where I was supposed
to get my connecting flight to Toronto. I was told to my chagrin,
however, that my flight was overbooked and that I'd been placed on
standby. Half-an-hour before the flight and there were still no free
seats, so a helpful AF official put me on a direct flight to Toronto
from Paris - AF 358. Later, while standing in the check-in queue, I
was approached by an AF official who explained that this flight was
also overbooked. She asked if I'd consider staying in Paris an extra
night; AF would put me up in a nearby hotel and give me 150 euros for
my pains. I turned her offer down, since I only had 5 days to spend
with family in Toronto before flying on to Vancouver.
I was seated in the row just behind business class. I escaped from the
crash without even a scratch and realise how lucky I am, but right now
feel uncertain and plagued by vague fears and doubts. I decided to go
ahead with my flight to Vancouver, as I'd promised a friend I'd attend
his wedding.
I was surprised that I endured the flight without any
major incident, but am more than a little concerned about my long-haul
flight back to [nation halfway around the world] in just over a week from now.
I have exchanged email addresses and telephone numbers with several
other passengers on the ill-fated flight and intend to stay in
contact with them."
UNQUOTE
WOW. I just hope all the passengers have long and productive lives and do not suffer from the effects of any lasting trauma. Most of them will not suffer. A few of them might. I hope they will be okay, too.
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Thanks nervousblogger for your thoughts. I'm sure that all interested parties are now aware of your blog, and will no doubt be following it with fascination.It would therefore be a duplication to continue this concept in two places at once, so I'll close this thread and let those interested direct themselves at your blog site.
