BA Lisbon - Incompetence that is almost funny
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BA Lisbon - Incompetence that is almost funny
So I was flying back from Lisbon to London on BA on Thursday evening. The flight was delayed so we were called to the gate about 2 hours late. There was quite a long queue so I joined the end, had my boarding pass run through the machine and walked downstairs to get on the last bus to the aircraft with about 20 or so other passengers. We then waited and waited (assuming that there was another passenger(s) still to come) when all of a sudden one of my fellow passengers noticed that our aircraft over the other side of the airfield was pushing back. We then watched in disbelief as it taxied out and took off. We couldn't get back into the terminal and our bus driver was trying in vain to get someone on the radio. So another night in Lisbon as it was the last flight and eventually arrived back in London about 15 hours late.
How on earth did this happen? Surely the pilot would not be happy to learn that a) he was missing 20 passengers and b) that some of them had checked in luggage.
Anyone ever come across this before?
How on earth did this happen? Surely the pilot would not be happy to learn that a) he was missing 20 passengers and b) that some of them had checked in luggage.
Anyone ever come across this before?
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a) I doubt it, but assuming they knew then if it's a choice of leaving 20 passengers or missing the slot and having to cancel the flight you have to go with the lesser of the two evils.
b) Just 'cos it's checked in doesn't mean its on the aircraft. Doesn't mean there were any bags on the aircraft. Sometimes it happens during disruption. If unaccompanied bags did travel then thats a very serious failure of a number of security systems and should be reported to BA.
b) Just 'cos it's checked in doesn't mean its on the aircraft. Doesn't mean there were any bags on the aircraft. Sometimes it happens during disruption. If unaccompanied bags did travel then thats a very serious failure of a number of security systems and should be reported to BA.
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BBDO
Were you made aware of the denied boarding compensation under the new EU rules?
If your flight was =<1500kms, then you are due 250 euros (as well as hotac and food), if >1500kms then you are in for 400 euros. I suspect that it will be the latter, but do not have route distances to hand.
Not that that makes a wasted night in a hotel any more enjoyable.
Were you made aware of the denied boarding compensation under the new EU rules?
If your flight was =<1500kms, then you are due 250 euros (as well as hotac and food), if >1500kms then you are in for 400 euros. I suspect that it will be the latter, but do not have route distances to hand.
Not that that makes a wasted night in a hotel any more enjoyable.
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Thanks for the info. According to the BA website the journey is 986 miles which according to Google is 1586 kilometres. But as you say, I probably would have taken a night at home with the family over the cash!
I feel fairly certain that the onboard crew weren't aware they were missing passengers. As far as they were concerned everyone had got to the gate (which I suppose was true). I haven't seen onboard crew doing headcounts recently so I guess the assumption is that if the boarding card has been read by the machine then they are on the aircraft. Sadly not true in my case.
I feel fairly certain that the onboard crew weren't aware they were missing passengers. As far as they were concerned everyone had got to the gate (which I suppose was true). I haven't seen onboard crew doing headcounts recently so I guess the assumption is that if the boarding card has been read by the machine then they are on the aircraft. Sadly not true in my case.
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No headcount? C'mon, give me a break. Also, whatever happened to the "thumbs-up" from the gate sup to cabin crew once all PAX had boarded the plane?
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Tom,
Rarely do crews do a head count. They are told "all on board" by the agent and go. I bet this was a mistake.
I have been called back to stand in the past to collect pax that were suppose to be on board.
Rarely do crews do a head count. They are told "all on board" by the agent and go. I bet this was a mistake.
I have been called back to stand in the past to collect pax that were suppose to be on board.
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I know airports where most cabin crew do make the headcount (nowhere near home of course), and I also know airlines where cabin crew will always make the headcount, but then their planes are yellow and blue inside and their pax may sit where they choose to 
Back to the story: If cabin crew got the "thumbs up" ("all on board") from the ground agent than fine. But apparently at LIS the ground agent does not physically follow the last passenger to the aircraft (i.e. last person down the jetbridge / last person stepping off the last bus). This really helps if you do not want to leave peple behind.
Back to the story: If cabin crew got the "thumbs up" ("all on board") from the ground agent than fine. But apparently at LIS the ground agent does not physically follow the last passenger to the aircraft (i.e. last person down the jetbridge / last person stepping off the last bus). This really helps if you do not want to leave peple behind.
Well, I seriously believe that leaving 20 or so pax behind constitutes gross negligence. Contributing to this is the alleged fact that head counts are no longer made. BBDO, do us all a favour and get yourself a good lawyer and sue BA. It's got to be a winner. And then there's the security aspect regarding the bags. I very much expect that they were on board. What a shambles - and this was BA!
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If unboarded pax had luggage aboard then it will be an interview without tea and biscuits for someone surely!
We were held at YOW 10 days ago to chuck off the bags of an unboarded pax. 20 pax bag sets is pretty serious, especially since the bags aren't loaded in the order you board the bus so the chances of all 20 pax bags not being aboard is slight.
There is also the issue of weight calculations - 20 pax and hand luggage would be in the two tonne range!
We were held at YOW 10 days ago to chuck off the bags of an unboarded pax. 20 pax bag sets is pretty serious, especially since the bags aren't loaded in the order you board the bus so the chances of all 20 pax bags not being aboard is slight.
There is also the issue of weight calculations - 20 pax and hand luggage would be in the two tonne range!
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BBDO As a possible clue as to whether your bags went on the expected flight: When you arrived in the UK the next day, were your bags on the carousel as normal - or where they waiting for you on a couple of barrows? Maybe some other indication that you could note for your letter, did you keep the bag tags? They would have dates on them.
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WOW....as an employee of BA all I can say is OOPS!!!!
Talk about a gross error!
Perhaps the people you should be pointing the finger at however is the handling agent in Lisbon. I can assure you that if the crew where aware that the pax were still standing on a bus that the plane would have gone nowhere! Id be surprised if BA were not already screaming down the phone to lisbon over this!!!
Talk about a gross error!
Perhaps the people you should be pointing the finger at however is the handling agent in Lisbon. I can assure you that if the crew where aware that the pax were still standing on a bus that the plane would have gone nowhere! Id be surprised if BA were not already screaming down the phone to lisbon over this!!!
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Quote:
Perhaps the people you should be pointing the finger at however is the handling agent in Lisbon
Nonsense - it's the bloke - sorry, person - sitting up front, left hand side, who's ultimately responsible.
Perhaps the people you should be pointing the finger at however is the handling agent in Lisbon
Nonsense - it's the bloke - sorry, person - sitting up front, left hand side, who's ultimately responsible.
Last edited by Farmer 1; 2nd Aug 2005 at 21:09.
Whereas the actions of the handling agent may have contributed, the CC should have known the number of pax expected and should have confirmed this with a simple head count. Period. If head counts are no longer BA policy (is that really true though?), I guess that in light of this little fiasco they will have to review that policy.
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I can only imagine that the gate staff advised the dispatcher on the plane that all passengers had been processed through boarding. The dispatcher assumes this meant all were on board and advised the crew of this, so doors were closed. The breakdown in communication must have happened when you all boarded the bus. Headcounts only take place if there is a discrepancy between number checked in to number gone through the boarding gate, so the groundstaff would have had matching figures.
Except the Captain is usually busy at this stage and relies on the dispatcher to advise boarding is completed, then the crew to advise doors are closing . What do you really expect the captain to do a headcount themselves???
Yes it is, you try headcounting 300+ passengers on larger aircraft playing musical chairs and darting in and out of toilets!
Nonsense - it's the bloke - sorry, person - sitting up front, left hand side, who's ultimately responsible.
If head counts are no longer BA policy (is that really true though?),
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Sixmilehighclub.
No, I do not expect the captain to do the headcount himself. He delegates the task to someone else, but he cannot delegate the responsibility. If he took off unaware of the fact that a busload of passengers had been left behind, some with checked-in baggage on the aircraft, I imagine soon after his arrival he would be severely spoken at.
I've seen headcounts done on large aircraft, with Swiss and Air France flying from Third World countries - musical chairs, toilets and all. It can take the crew several trips up and down the cabin before they are satisfied the numbers are correct. Frustrating it is, but full marks to them.
No, I do not expect the captain to do the headcount himself. He delegates the task to someone else, but he cannot delegate the responsibility. If he took off unaware of the fact that a busload of passengers had been left behind, some with checked-in baggage on the aircraft, I imagine soon after his arrival he would be severely spoken at.
I've seen headcounts done on large aircraft, with Swiss and Air France flying from Third World countries - musical chairs, toilets and all. It can take the crew several trips up and down the cabin before they are satisfied the numbers are correct. Frustrating it is, but full marks to them.
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Iv now worked for 6 major carriers and currently with BA and all I can say is I have never been asked to do a headcount and this is 10 years in the industry!!!! It just doesnt happen anymore! Perhaps it should but it doesnt and I dont think the airlines are to blame for this one!
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The handling agent is a contractor for the airline and the airline assigns responsibility to the agent for the services that they provide.
However, the airline cannot assign their accountability under the contract with their passenger, so any screw ups by the agent are ultimately screw ups by the airline.
Of course, the airline can seek redress for any failure to execute the contract to agreed service levels.
Maybe what you really meant is that the cabin crew are not accountable? I would have far more sympathy for that point of view.
I dont think the airlines are to blame for this one!
However, the airline cannot assign their accountability under the contract with their passenger, so any screw ups by the agent are ultimately screw ups by the airline.
Of course, the airline can seek redress for any failure to execute the contract to agreed service levels.
Maybe what you really meant is that the cabin crew are not accountable? I would have far more sympathy for that point of view.