BA Lisbon - Incompetence that is almost funny
Join Date: Sep 1999
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bealine - are you telling us that the BA timetable is wrong and that GB operate 757s to LIS - and that the BA 497 and BA503 are in fact the GB497 and 503?
Come on! You cannot avoid responsibility that easily!
Come on! You cannot avoid responsibility that easily!
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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Just to clarify a few points:
1) The route is definitley a BA route not a GB route. They were BA aircraft, BA boarding passes, BA flight nos, BA staff etc etc
2) The actual aircraft type was believe it or not a 747. There are two flights to Heathrow from Lisbon in the evening. For whatever reason they decided to roll the two flights into one and flew over a BA 747 for the purpose. I know because I watched it depart without me!!
3) There were definitely unacompanied bags on board . I was talking to a family on the bus who were supposed to be connecting to Melbourne and were told that they would have to collect their luggage at Heathrow on arrival the next day as it wasn't coming back to Lisbon.
4) No response from BA yet. Sent a letter over a week ago.
5) I guess the simplest way to avoid this sort of thing would be for the gate supervisor to follow the last PAX out to the aircraft on the bus. Less time consuming than a head count?
1) The route is definitley a BA route not a GB route. They were BA aircraft, BA boarding passes, BA flight nos, BA staff etc etc
2) The actual aircraft type was believe it or not a 747. There are two flights to Heathrow from Lisbon in the evening. For whatever reason they decided to roll the two flights into one and flew over a BA 747 for the purpose. I know because I watched it depart without me!!
3) There were definitely unacompanied bags on board . I was talking to a family on the bus who were supposed to be connecting to Melbourne and were told that they would have to collect their luggage at Heathrow on arrival the next day as it wasn't coming back to Lisbon.
4) No response from BA yet. Sent a letter over a week ago.
5) I guess the simplest way to avoid this sort of thing would be for the gate supervisor to follow the last PAX out to the aircraft on the bus. Less time consuming than a head count?
Too mean to buy a long personal title
bealine: Of course, the side of this story I had overlooked is the fact that Lisbon is not a British Airways route - it is operated by GB Airways under a BA franchise agreement.
All the flight numbers are mainline flight numbers, not in the GB franchise block.
Also (just to prove that kiddiestalkingaboutaircraft.net is useful for something) this is a block of random length of registrations of BA aircraft photographed at LIS: G-CPEM, G-EUUE, G-EUPX, G-BPEJ, G-CPES, G-BNWZ, G-EUUO, G-EUPA, G-EUPP, G-EUUE, G-BUSI, G-EUPX, G-CPES, G-CPEM, G-CPEN, G-BPEJ, G-BPEE, G-CPEM, G-EUPP, G-CPEL, G-EUPF, G-EUUG.
All of these are mainline aircraft, non?
BBDO: 2) The actual aircraft type was believe it or not a 747. There are two flights to Heathrow from Lisbon in the evening. For whatever reason they decided to roll the two flights into one and flew over a BA 747 for the purpose. I know because I watched it depart without me!!
(Sorry, couldn\'t resist, seeing as the list was on my computer already.)
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Aaah things become clearer. If it was a 747 then that would explain why the crew didn't spot 20 passengers missing. It would take quite some incompetence to miss their absence on a 319, but on a 290 seat aircraft its a bit less obvious. Nonetheless, there would appear to have been a large ostrich up by the dispatcher on this one. The issue of security regarding the bags is a bit of a moot one as all the passengers intended to travel with their bags. I suppose for the conspiracy theorists that it's possible you could be working in cahoots with a baggage handler to place your bomb laden bag on board whilst you stay on the bus, but does anyone really think you could plan on the Lisbon scenario?
The Arlanda claim is rather more interesting and I would be interested to hear how radeng knows his bags went on an earlier flight as opposed to just being on the carousel very quickly on arrival. All bags have a bar code on their tag and are laser scanned before loading by a system which matches them to a travelling passenger. Before departure the baggage list is compared to the list of passengers who've passed through the boarding gate. ANY discrepancy between the two must be resolved before the aircraft gets airborne. This is a cornerstone of our system. If bags are regularly travelling on any earlier flight from Arlanda then this is a very serious issue, far more so than the Lisbon incident, and requires urgent investigation.
The Arlanda claim is rather more interesting and I would be interested to hear how radeng knows his bags went on an earlier flight as opposed to just being on the carousel very quickly on arrival. All bags have a bar code on their tag and are laser scanned before loading by a system which matches them to a travelling passenger. Before departure the baggage list is compared to the list of passengers who've passed through the boarding gate. ANY discrepancy between the two must be resolved before the aircraft gets airborne. This is a cornerstone of our system. If bags are regularly travelling on any earlier flight from Arlanda then this is a very serious issue, far more so than the Lisbon incident, and requires urgent investigation.
Possibly we are now getting nearer to the reason (although not justification) for this, if a 747 had been substituted for two regular European aircraft. Although BA 747s are not unknown at Lisbon as stand-ins, it is typical that things more often go awry when staff are working in an unfamiliar way. It was probably the first time through there for all the crew, and first time doing a BA 747 for the dispatcher and their team. Add in two flights merged in to one, and possibly pax for the earlier one having been rebooked or made their own alternative arrangements, and you start to have all the elements for a cock-up.
I too don't see any security issue if the bags had just been mishandled as here. Flights don't return if it is found bags have been loaded onto the wrong aircraft. Pax EXPECTING to fly with bags is the security criteria.
I too don't see any security issue if the bags had just been mishandled as here. Flights don't return if it is found bags have been loaded onto the wrong aircraft. Pax EXPECTING to fly with bags is the security criteria.
LUXury is a 13,000 ft runway
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5) I guess the simplest way to avoid this sort of thing would be for the gate supervisor to follow the last PAX out to the aircraft on the bus. Less time consuming than a head count?
Join Date: May 2002
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Sorry - I stand corrected. When we had a LGW-LIS route in days gone by, that was operated by GB so I wrongly assumed LIS was still a GB station.
Yes, you're right. Whilst having a member of the gate team to ride out with the last bus would be ideal, staffing levels have been reduced to the extent that we can no longer afford that luxury.
However, if the situation is indeed as you described, then it is crystal clear that our ops management need to stamp down hard on those responsible!
Yes, you're right. Whilst having a member of the gate team to ride out with the last bus would be ideal, staffing levels have been reduced to the extent that we can no longer afford that luxury.
However, if the situation is indeed as you described, then it is crystal clear that our ops management need to stamp down hard on those responsible!
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All very well having a staff member accompany the last bus-load, but what if it's an intermediate bus that goes missing? It seems to me that a count of heads/empty seats is the only sure way to check.
Lufthansa at FRA has a nice way of countering MBS(Missing Bus Syndrome).
The driver of the last bus delivers the final passenger load information to the ops team at the aircraft on remote stands.
No load information means that you haven't got all your passengers on board.
Quite simple, really.
The driver of the last bus delivers the final passenger load information to the ops team at the aircraft on remote stands.
No load information means that you haven't got all your passengers on board.
Quite simple, really.
Carnage asked how I knew the bags were there before me. I knew it must have come on the earlier flight because the belt hadn't even started moving for BA783, I'd come straight through in about 5 minutes from leaving the plane, and yet the bag was in a pile up by the service desk. It happened twice, must have been about two years ago on occasions when BA781 was running late - I've commuted to ARN so often, BA784 out on Sunday, BA783 back on Friday that I've lost count...
It's also happened coming back from the US on American - that was a good few years ago, since I don't travel with them very much - BA are FAR superior!
My best record on lost bags is on United. 13 journeys, 10 of them leading to lost bags. But not a lost customer!
Not too sure why it's so much of a no-no, since a passenger has no guarantee that his bags will either precede him, accompany him, or follow him. So it's totally unpredictable. Rather like the argument that the chances of a bomb on the plane are low, so the chance of two bombs is even lower, so if you carry a bomb, there's a negligible chance you will be blown up.
I'll see what happens on BA783 this Friday...I expect the bags will accompany me.
It's also happened coming back from the US on American - that was a good few years ago, since I don't travel with them very much - BA are FAR superior!
My best record on lost bags is on United. 13 journeys, 10 of them leading to lost bags. But not a lost customer!
Not too sure why it's so much of a no-no, since a passenger has no guarantee that his bags will either precede him, accompany him, or follow him. So it's totally unpredictable. Rather like the argument that the chances of a bomb on the plane are low, so the chance of two bombs is even lower, so if you carry a bomb, there's a negligible chance you will be blown up.
I'll see what happens on BA783 this Friday...I expect the bags will accompany me.
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Concorde in LIS
Many years ago in a distant galaxy, I remember a Concorde on the LIS run. Not operated by GB.
Promotional stunt, cunning way to interest pax, they substituted the conc on random sectors........great PR, never made that ride, i was parked at the mid point parking, and saw the bird arrive, too late to dig out box brownie.....
Bumz
Promotional stunt, cunning way to interest pax, they substituted the conc on random sectors........great PR, never made that ride, i was parked at the mid point parking, and saw the bird arrive, too late to dig out box brownie.....
Bumz
